[Deck] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

Played TES at my local weekly tournament tonight. Only 8 players, so 3 rounds.

Round 1 vs. Combo Elves

Game 1: I Ponder on my turn and he plays a Quirion Ranger. Turn 2 I combo off. He mentions Grapeshot so rather than go for the quick Tendrils kill I go for the Grapeshot kill for 24. Could have done more, but he didn't deserve it.

-No SB changes.

Game 2: He opens with Birchlore Ranger. He doesn't get another turn since I have the turn 1 Ad Nauseum and Tendrils him with a Storm count of 16.

1-0; 2-0 games

Round 2 vs Maverick
He wins the roll.

Game 1: He GSZ for Arbor. My turn 1 I EtW for 10 Goblins. His turn 2 Terravore (1/1) chump blocks a Goblin and he dies the following turn.

-No SB changes.

Game 2: He has turn 1 Hierarch, I have 10 Goblins again. He never draws his boarded cards (Ratchet Bomb &/or Crawlspace).

2-0; 4-0

Round 3 vs Junk
ID since he's a friend. We play it out anyways though.

Game 1: I win the roll and make 16 Goblins turn 1.

-No SB changes.

Game 2: He mulligans to try to find a Chalice of the Void. Goes all the way down to 1 with no luck. I keep a hand that looked better than it really was (kept thinking my Duress was Ad Nauseum for some reason). No lands, so if he did get Chalice I woulda been screwed. I Chant/Silence him the next 3 turns (when he finally has lands, using Mox imprinted with Chant) just in case he drew something. I finally get Ad Nauseum and proceed to flip the other AdN, Tendrils, bunch of 1cc spells and no artifact mana. I stop at 2 because I still have most of my tutors in the deck. I decide to play a land and Brainstorm in hopes of going off next turn instead. Brainstorm finds me 2x Mox and a LED. I proceed to Tendrils him.

2-0-1 in Rounds, 6-0 in games ending up in 1st overall.

/delurking

I was wondering if there was a sort of "standard" list for TES. I've been wanting to check it out and test it (or rather: get some experience playing it) at a few casual meetups.

Check out the first page of this thread.

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Originally Posted by Whippoorwill

Round 2 vs Maverick
He wins the roll.

Game 1: He GSZ for Arbor. My turn 1 I EtW for 10 Goblins. His turn 2 Terravore (1/1) chump blocks a Goblin and he dies the following turn.

-No SB changes.

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Why didn't you bring in bounce? His strategy against you will be to GSZ for Gaddock Teeg, and then play an additional hatebear like Aven Mindcensor or Ethersworn Canonist.

I thought about it, but I decided to keep the main the same and just hope to win before he could cast any of his hate (Teeg/GSZ for Teeg). It was a risk, but it paid off.

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Originally Posted by Whippoorwill

I thought about it, but I decided to keep the main the same and just hope to win before he could cast any of his hate (Teeg/GSZ for Teeg). It was a risk, but it paid off.

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It doesn't seem worth the risk. You don't slow yourself down by taking out the silences for bounce (except hurting ad naus marginally, but at this point you resolved ad nauseum, so who cares?).

And if you can't go off in time and they land a hate bear, you need burning wish for grapeshot and then ways to race the rest of their hand. Just seems loose

Yeah I absolutely board in bounce against hatebear.dec/maverick. I despise chant effects in those MUs and would rather have anything else other than chant because chant is an awful topdeck that does nothing to their hatebear while bounce at least can stall or better yet bounce a hatebear. Same with GBW Junk; board out chant effects for bounce all day when you suspect permanent based hate because, again, chant does almost nothing most of the time in my experience against permanent based hate. Chant is just king against blue though, turning off spell snare, stifle, and daze is great. Such a powerful card against countermagic. Precisely the reason we run it is for blue.

@Vicar: Read the opening post and the last few pages of the thread and you should be able to find the list if not I recommend another less complicated deck.

Almost beat a pyrostatic pillar on 2(u/r delver). miscounted and couldn't get hellbent. wanted to kill myself after the match. I literally was one damage off and probably could have put him to 2 to essentially lock him out of the game until i got enough mana to go off again.

Did the delver player have any board presence whatsoever? Because if he didn't then you literally can't lose due to any spell being cast on his end likely killing him sans force of will or if he played jace, TMS but that's unlikely and even as a singleton probably wouldn't win him the game due to him being able to FoW only one time and you gaining lots of life off tendrils. Sad to hear about it though.

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Originally Posted by Dark Ritual

Did the delver player have any board presence whatsoever? Because if he didn't then you literally can't lose due to any spell being cast on his end likely killing him sans force of will or if he played jace, TMS but that's unlikely and even as a singleton probably wouldn't win him the game due to him being able to FoW only one time and you gaining lots of life off tendrils. Sad to hear about it though.

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his only permanent was the pillar and he was tapped out. so yes epic punts and miscounts. completely forgot about the fact that i could lock him out at that point. had my eyes on the prize and lost because of it. felt pretty good to know i could have beat one though had i taken an extra ten seconds to think about my line.

Like Ari, I've been encountering a lot more Spell Pierce lately, which has me a bit less excited about Chants and Silences. I have similarly been killing with Empty the Warrens far more than usual lately. Maybe it is just my draws (unlikely), but I think it has to do with the rise of Delver decks in this format. None of them can deal with ETW properly. I've added an Empty to the main (cutting the second Ad Nauseam) so that I can fetch one up with Infernal, and am thinking about adding another one or two more to the side for the match-ups where Ad Naus and/or tutor chains are much less realistic an option.

I haven't played this deck in the current metagame, but I might pick it back up. Question: do RUG Tempo players board out Bolts? I don't want speculation; I want someone with a lot of experience to tell me what they have actually observed. I'm trying to decide Pyro/Xantid Swarm for the board, and this is just one factor to determine what I will choose. I generally think Swarm is fantastic in a Spell Snare / Stifle metagame.

I play against RUG regularly with TES at our local store and every game he seems to keep a couple bolts in. Also, from experience, pyroblast is amazing in this MU. I use it regularly to kill early delvers to slow their clock down.

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Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7

I haven't played this deck in the current metagame, but I might pick it back up. Question: do RUG Tempo players board out Bolts? I don't want speculation; I want someone with a lot of experience to tell me what they have actually observed. I'm trying to decide Pyro/Xantid Swarm for the board, and this is just one factor to determine what I will choose. I generally think Swarm is fantastic in a Spell Snare / Stifle metagame.

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My RUG opponents tend to leave in Bolt, they do board out Lavamancer though. I don't like Swarm right now, Chant effects are just better at the moment. Swarm was great in a Merfolk/Reanimator metagame because they didn't play removal. Nowadays every deck has access to removal through Phyrexian Mana, Swarms days of being fantastic are behind it. It'll be awhile before it may be good again.

Played TES again last night.

Round 1 vs. Aggro/Combo Elves
Not the same person/deck as last week. I'm on the play.

Game 1: I apologize cause its a friend and proceed to Tendrils for 30 before she even has a turn.

Game 2: Turn 2 Tendrils for 22 after Diminishing Returns finds business for me.

1-0; 2-0

Round 2 vs Goblins
Suboptimal build, has Lackeys and Vials, but no Piledrivers. He's on the play.

Game 1: He hits me with a Lackey on his 2nd turn. I Tendrils him for 28 on my 2nd turn.

Game 2: He gets an Aether Vial. Next thing he gets is Tendrils for 22.

2-0; 4-0

Round 3 vs. Mono Green Infect
This is the son of my Round 1 opponent, so I ask her how bad she wants me to beat him and I get the go ahead to make it bad.

Game 1: He hits me for 1 Infect. I hit him for 20 with Grapeshot.

Game 2: I keep a decent hand that only needs a business spell (AdN, Infernal, Wish) and includes Brainstorm. Brainstorm finds me lands of the non-fetch variety.

He then goes to brag that he beat me...

Game 3: I set up my hand with Ponder/Brainstorm. Turn 3 I start going off. I Tendrils him down to 2 after ripping apart his hand with Duresses. Wish for PiF for more fun which leads to Burning Wish for Iggy getting back 3 LEDs, I Duress away his cards again. Usual Storm stuff happens and final count is 112 Goblin tokens followed by Grapeshot for 57.

3-0; 6-1

Round 4 vs. U/G Infect Stompy
I know he has FoW and Daze main and Divert/Misdirection in the side.

Game 1: Land Grant shows his hand good against anyone else (turn 2 infect kill) but only Brainstorm for me to worry about. I Tendrils him for lethal shortly after when his BS doesn't find anything to help.

-2 Chant, +2 Echoing Truth (I shoulda brought in the blasts as well but didn't because he didn't bother to board in additional counters.)

Game 2: We both build up since he doesn't have a creature and I'm trying to find business while playing around Daze. After drawing out counters on a couple less important spells I go for it with Infernal but he had the Force for it. His hand is empty now and I just need a Tutor/Wish. I don't draw it before he kills me.

Game 3: I Duress him on T1 and his hand is Infect Myr, Island, Daze, Berserk, Invigorate, Might of Old Krosa and Land Grant. I take Land Grant. He proceeds to topdeck another... Turn 3 I go for it since I'm dead next turn and he's out of answers (he used Daze on previous turn against Duress and I didn't pay). After a less than stellar AdN I think of my options and Echoing Truth + 2 Chrome Mox gets my Storm count high enough for lethal and I have exactly enough mana for Wish > Tendrils. Very close game.

4-0; 8-2 in games.

Finished in first overall. I think we had about 14 or so players, maybe a couple more.

I know I still need more practice with boarding, especially against control. I'll get it eventually though.

Saw some discussion on Silent Departure against Reanimator a few pages back. I'd like to try it, but doesn't it just lose to them drawing 7 off Jin? Do people board it in ever or you you still Wishing for it games 2 and 3?

I always liked oust against reanimator because it's useful in other Mu's. If they do manage to get out a jin, you have to kinda get lucky off of the draw 7 and hope they don't hit force and just chant em during your turn, its not impossible to win after jin-gitaxis resolves but it's hard depending on what they draw (also, you can usually race them so you don't have to deal with reanimation)... I like the boarded games against reanimator because of pyroblast/echoing truth so they don't usually get to draw 7 if they default to jin-gitaxis. Reanimator is a pretty easy MU as long as they don't draw the nuts. I prefer TES against reanimator than other storm variants as Burning Wish gives you answers to resolved reanimated creatures where variants such as ant just die to an iona.

Onto more important topics:

Bryant, what is the best way to get someone to not scoop to you if you want to Grapeshot them? This is a very big issue as everyone I've played vs. who deserves it just scoops when they are dead to the Ad Naus from a Tendrils.

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Originally Posted by AriLax

Onto more important topics:

Bryant, what is the best way to get someone to not scoop to you if you want to Grapeshot them? This is a very big issue as everyone I've played vs. who deserves it just scoops when they are dead to the Ad Naus from a Tendrils.

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Showboat and make it clear you are going to Grapeshot them. Most people I do that to watch me play it out hoping a screw up and fizzle, which has not happened as of yet but it does make them sit through it more if they can hope

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Originally Posted by AriLax

what is the best way to get someone to not scoop to you if you want to Grapeshot them? This is a very big issue as everyone I've played vs. who deserves it just scoops when they are dead to the Ad Naus from a Tendrils.

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I like to say something like, "I don't know if I can kill you..." and they probably think to themselves, "If you can't kill me you're retarded," ======> Grapeshot for 50 somethin..:laugh:

Usually works when I feel like grapeshotting someone who's a douche. It also makes them think you are stupid and can't play storm then they get a fat grapeshot to their ugly face. It might not work so well if your Air Lax since everyone knows he can play storm.

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Originally Posted by j_rb

I like to say something like, "I don't know if I can kill you..."

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I usually do this.

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Originally Posted by Jeff Kruchkow

Showboat and make it clear you are going to Grapeshot them. Most people I do that to watch me play it out hoping a screw up and fizzle, which has not happened as of yet but it does make them sit through it more if they can hope.

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Depending on their personality sometimes I'll do this. "You're getting a Grapeshot for 50" often intrigues people enough that they'll often sit there to see if it's capable.

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Originally Posted by AriLax

Onto more important topics:

Bryant, what is the best way to get someone to not scoop to you if you want to Grapeshot them? This is a very big issue as everyone I've played vs. who deserves it just scoops when they are dead to the Ad Naus from a Tendrils.

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I will never understand how you have friends.

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Originally Posted by Bryant Cook

I usually do this.


Depending on their personality sometimes I'll do this. "You're getting a Grapeshot for 50" often intrigues people enough that they'll often sit there to see if it's capable.

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This as well. My meta has almost no good storm players so they get curious.

More on topic. Is dropping duress and going to 7-8 chant a viable strategy? I've had decent luck in testing and while 3 colors on the combo turn can be rough, my meta is drowning in tempo decks where chant is an all-star

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Originally Posted by Jeff Kruchkow

This as well. My meta has almost no good storm players so they get curious.

More on topic. Is dropping duress and going to 7-8 chant a viable strategy? I've had decent luck in testing and while 3 colors on the combo turn can be rough, my meta is drowning in tempo decks where chant is an all-star

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It's important to have variance. Chant effects aren't great in every match-up, just the Stifle/Snare match-ups. What I'm going to try out the next few weeks is a protection package that looks like...

3 Duress
3 Orim's Chant
2 Silence

I'll be moving the forth Duress to the sideboard replacing Thoughtsieze.

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Originally Posted by Bryant Cook

It's important to have variance. Chant effects aren't great in every match-up, just the Stifle/Snare match-ups. What I'm going to try out the next few weeks is a protection package that looks like...

3 Duress
3 Orim's Chant
2 Silence

I'll be moving the forth Duress to the sideboard replacing Thoughtsieze.

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I don't know about that change; it seems like it would make sideboarding a bit more awkward against green-based decks (the -4 Chant, +2 E. Truth, +1 Deathmark or Silent Departure, +X plan would be gone like MC Hammer's house). Sorry Hammer. Though, I suppose if you're still playing another bounce spell, like Wipe Away, or are playing an additional Deathmark, you could go -5 Chant for all of the above (Duress=X in this case, though I definitely think it should still be Thoughtseize) plus Wipe Away/Deathmark, but I shouldn't be undermining my arguments.

Also, thank you for the ballin ass deck list. It has been very good to me over the past few weeks.

Against green decks you just board the Duress back in over a Chant effect.

-3 Orim's Chant
-2 Silence
+2 Echoing Truth
+1 Wipeaway
+1 Silent Departure
+1 Duress

You could even leave in an Orim's Chant or two over Wipeaway/Silent Departure for the sake of kicking it or time walking on their upkeep.

Has anyone tried Teferi's Realm as an answer for problem permanents? (Teeg, Canonist, Mindcensor, Chalice, Sphere/Thorn, etc.) Menendian used them in the sideboard of his Vintage Doomsday deck from the Waterbury this year. Too slow, possibly? I guess our sideboard slots are very cramped as it is. Something to think about, anyway.

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Originally Posted by thefringthing

Has anyone tried Teferi's Realm as an answer for problem permanents? (Teeg, Canonist, Mindcensor, Chalice, Sphere/Thorn, etc.) Menendian used them in the sideboard of his Vintage Doomsday deck from the Waterbury this year. Too slow, possibly? I guess our sideboard slots are very cramped as it is. Something to think about, anyway.

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3 mana, doesn't get rid of anything until the turn after, not an instant, worse than our bounce/kill package, can't burning wish for it, doesn't come in foil, etc

Vintage is drastically different from legacy. There, you have workshops. Here, you don't have workshops. There, you have the broken moxen. Here, you have to sack petal or imprint a blue card on chrome mox to cast that turn 2. The card seems absolutely awful in legacy, I wouldn't play it.

7-8 chant effects isn't really something TES wants to do. Providing information is king in any countermagic MU and the fact remains that if you happen to run into counterbalance you'll want to tear those silences to shreds wishing they were duress if you don't have the EtW hand on turn 1 or 2 assuming they aren't the blasted version of that deck with e. tutor and their annoying artifact/enchantment package including EE and thopters but this should be a rare occurence; I happened to face this deck and it also had vindicate, kinda a homebrew version of esper countertop thopters but I wanted to kill myself afterwards.

I like the idea of playing 5-6 chants effects and less duress, nowadays counterbalance doesn't see play and I think that chants are better in this metagame.

Could be reasonable to play 1 tundra in main deck ?

Personally, I'd still run the 4-4 split between duress and silence/orim's because there will be times that you'll need to imprint duress to chrome mox just to give you B mana.
:-)

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Originally Posted by paeng4983

Personally, I'd still run the 4-4 split between duress and silence/orim's because there will be times that you'll need to imprint duress to chrome mox just to give you B mana.
:-)

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This is in fact relevant, which is why I proposed only switching one and not all eight. Right now the extra Silence is more useful. Information and keeping our protection diverse is important too which is why I'm not cutting Duress completely and probably ever.

EDIT: Happy Holidays everyone. My gift to you is an updated deck list on the opening post. A shitty gift, I know.

I'm balking at swapping out the sideboard Thoughtseize for Duress. There have definitely been times where that configuration left me kold to an opponent's maindeck Gaddock Teeg.

It seems to me that playing Duress maindeck and Thoughtseize in the side is the best way to diversify protection while mitigating the life loss from Thoughtseize.

Then again, I usually end up liking Bryant's ideas after playing with them for a while.

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Originally Posted by thefringthing

I'm balking at swapping out the sideboard Thoughtseize for Duress. There have definitely been times where that configuration left me kold to an opponent's maindeck Gaddock Teeg.

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What are your wish targets?

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Originally Posted by Tammit67

What are your wish targets?

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I tweak the sideboard often. Right now they're Past in Flames, Ill-Gotten Gains, Diminishing Returns, Empty the Warrens, Tendrils of Agony, Grapeshot, Silent Departure, Thoughtseize, and Shattering Spree.

I think the fourth Duress is at least a little better against Maverick than the fifth Chant effect, which is the matchup I like the Thoughtseize for the most. I hesitate to shave both, since I think the matchup is only slightly in our favour as it is. We have to beat multiple hatebears in game one, and hatebears and Mindbreak Traps in games two and three.

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Originally Posted by thefringthing

I tweak the sideboard often. Right now they're Past in Flames, Ill-Gotten Gains, Diminishing Returns, Empty the Warrens, Tendrils of Agony, Grapeshot, Silent Departure, Thoughtseize, and Shattering Spree.

I think the fourth Duress is at least a little better against Maverick than the fifth Chant effect, which is the matchup I like the Thoughtseize for the most. I hesitate to shave both, since I think the matchup is only slightly in our favour as it is. We have to beat multiple hatebears in game one, and hatebears and Mindbreak Traps in games two and three.

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Maverick? The green/white deck?

So... you're going to draw the one of Thoughtseize to stop their turn two hate bear? Or Burning Wish turn 1, turn 2 Thoughtseize to stop their turn two hatebear? What if they don't have one? Too many resources lost on a "what if". Not to mention this is the only match-up Thoughtseize is better than Duress. Every other time Duress is better out of the sideboard. Duress/Thoughtseize/Silence/Chant are effectively the same card against Mindbreak Trap, they do the same thing for one mana. Except Chant effects can shut down a hand with two Traps.

I fail to see good reasoning.

I think a good 99% of the time Maverick puts Teeg into play against me it's off the back of GSZ. I can't imagine you ever hitting Teeg off a TS

That said, I don't hate the idea of the thoughtseize staying as the wish target, just not for the justification above.

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Originally Posted by leegoo

I think a good 99% of the time Maverick puts Teeg into play against me it's off the back of GSZ. I can't imagine you ever hitting Teeg off a TS

That said, I don't hate the idea of the thoughtseize staying as the wish target, just not for the justification above.

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Then why bother keeping it? It's really not that big of a change to the sideboard, it's practically the same card.

"I don't like the new Facebook changes"
"Why?"
"They're different"
"Oh"
"Yeah, I don't have a good reason, I'll probably love it in two weeks"

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Originally Posted by Bryant Cook

Then why bother keeping it? It's really not that big of a change to the sideboard, it's practically the same card.

"I don't like the new Facebook changes"
"Why?"
"They're different"
"Oh"
"Yeah, I don't have a good reason, I'll probably love it in two weeks"

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I'll give you I don't have a strong defense for it, the best I can muster is that it is an upgrade swap on duress (albeit that's very minor) in the aggro matchups.

So I suppose you are right, although I still don't like the Facebook changes.

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Originally Posted by leegoo

I think a good 99% of the time Maverick puts Teeg into play against me it's off the back of GSZ. I can't imagine you ever hitting Teeg off a TS

That said, I don't hate the idea of the thoughtseize staying as the wish target, just not for the justification above.

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Maverick has post SB 3-4 hate bears (teeg and canonist) and 6 tutors (Enlightened tutor + gsz). So they have consistently turn 2 hate bear and turn 3 another or aven mindcensor. TES just has to pretty much go off fast and not care for the mind break trap most maverick lists dont even have.