[Deck] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

[Bryant Cook]

I like to say something like, "I don't know if I can kill you..."

I usually do this.

Showboat and make it clear you are going to Grapeshot them. Most people I do that to watch me play it out hoping a screw up and fizzle, which has not happened as of yet but it does make them sit through it more if they can hope.

Depending on their personality sometimes I'll do this. "You're getting a Grapeshot for 50" often intrigues people enough that they'll often sit there to see if it's capable.

[Malakai]

Onto more important topics:

Bryant, what is the best way to get someone to not scoop to you if you want to Grapeshot them? This is a very big issue as everyone I've played vs. who deserves it just scoops when they are dead to the Ad Naus from a Tendrils.

I will never understand how you have friends.

[Jeff Kruchkow]

I usually do this.


Depending on their personality sometimes I'll do this. "You're getting a Grapeshot for 50" often intrigues people enough that they'll often sit there to see if it's capable.

This as well. My meta has almost no good storm players so they get curious.

More on topic. Is dropping duress and going to 7-8 chant a viable strategy? I've had decent luck in testing and while 3 colors on the combo turn can be rough, my meta is drowning in tempo decks where chant is an all-star

[Bryant Cook]

This as well. My meta has almost no good storm players so they get curious.

More on topic. Is dropping duress and going to 7-8 chant a viable strategy? I've had decent luck in testing and while 3 colors on the combo turn can be rough, my meta is drowning in tempo decks where chant is an all-star

It's important to have variance. Chant effects aren't great in every match-up, just the Stifle/Snare match-ups. What I'm going to try out the next few weeks is a protection package that looks like...

3 Duress
3 Orim's Chant
2 Silence

I'll be moving the forth Duress to the sideboard replacing Thoughtsieze.

[KevinTrudeau]

It's important to have variance. Chant effects aren't great in every match-up, just the Stifle/Snare match-ups. What I'm going to try out the next few weeks is a protection package that looks like...

3 Duress
3 Orim's Chant
2 Silence

I'll be moving the forth Duress to the sideboard replacing Thoughtsieze.

I don't know about that change; it seems like it would make sideboarding a bit more awkward against green-based decks (the -4 Chant, +2 E. Truth, +1 Deathmark or Silent Departure, +X plan would be gone like MC Hammer's house). Sorry Hammer. Though, I suppose if you're still playing another bounce spell, like Wipe Away, or are playing an additional Deathmark, you could go -5 Chant for all of the above (Duress=X in this case, though I definitely think it should still be Thoughtseize) plus Wipe Away/Deathmark, but I shouldn't be undermining my arguments.

Also, thank you for the ballin ass deck list. It has been very good to me over the past few weeks.

[Bryant Cook]

Against green decks you just board the Duress back in over a Chant effect.

-3 Orim's Chant
-2 Silence
+2 Echoing Truth
+1 Wipeaway
+1 Silent Departure
+1 Duress

You could even leave in an Orim's Chant or two over Wipeaway/Silent Departure for the sake of kicking it or time walking on their upkeep.

[thefringthing]

Has anyone tried Teferi's Realm as an answer for problem permanents? (Teeg, Canonist, Mindcensor, Chalice, Sphere/Thorn, etc.) Menendian used them in the sideboard of his Vintage Doomsday deck from the Waterbury this year. Too slow, possibly? I guess our sideboard slots are very cramped as it is. Something to think about, anyway.

[Tammit67]

Has anyone tried Teferi's Realm as an answer for problem permanents? (Teeg, Canonist, Mindcensor, Chalice, Sphere/Thorn, etc.) Menendian used them in the sideboard of his Vintage Doomsday deck from the Waterbury this year. Too slow, possibly? I guess our sideboard slots are very cramped as it is. Something to think about, anyway.

3 mana, doesn't get rid of anything until the turn after, not an instant, worse than our bounce/kill package, can't burning wish for it, doesn't come in foil, etc

[Dark Ritual]

Vintage is drastically different from legacy. There, you have workshops. Here, you don't have workshops. There, you have the broken moxen. Here, you have to sack petal or imprint a blue card on chrome mox to cast that turn 2. The card seems absolutely awful in legacy, I wouldn't play it.

7-8 chant effects isn't really something TES wants to do. Providing information is king in any countermagic MU and the fact remains that if you happen to run into counterbalance you'll want to tear those silences to shreds wishing they were duress if you don't have the EtW hand on turn 1 or 2 assuming they aren't the blasted version of that deck with e. tutor and their annoying artifact/enchantment package including EE and thopters but this should be a rare occurence; I happened to face this deck and it also had vindicate, kinda a homebrew version of esper countertop thopters but I wanted to kill myself afterwards.

[kiwi]

I like the idea of playing 5-6 chants effects and less duress, nowadays counterbalance doesn't see play and I think that chants are better in this metagame.

Could be reasonable to play 1 tundra in main deck ?

[paeng4983]

Personally, I'd still run the 4-4 split between duress and silence/orim's because there will be times that you'll need to imprint duress to chrome mox just to give you B mana.
:-)

[Bryant Cook]

Personally, I'd still run the 4-4 split between duress and silence/orim's because there will be times that you'll need to imprint duress to chrome mox just to give you B mana.
:-)

This is in fact relevant, which is why I proposed only switching one and not all eight. Right now the extra Silence is more useful. Information and keeping our protection diverse is important too which is why I'm not cutting Duress completely and probably ever.

EDIT: Happy Holidays everyone. My gift to you is an updated deck list on the opening post. A shitty gift, I know.

[thefringthing]

I'm balking at swapping out the sideboard Thoughtseize for Duress. There have definitely been times where that configuration left me kold to an opponent's maindeck Gaddock Teeg.

It seems to me that playing Duress maindeck and Thoughtseize in the side is the best way to diversify protection while mitigating the life loss from Thoughtseize.

Then again, I usually end up liking Bryant's ideas after playing with them for a while.

[Tammit67]

I'm balking at swapping out the sideboard Thoughtseize for Duress. There have definitely been times where that configuration left me kold to an opponent's maindeck Gaddock Teeg.

What are your wish targets?

[thefringthing]

What are your wish targets?

I tweak the sideboard often. Right now they're Past in Flames, Ill-Gotten Gains, Diminishing Returns, Empty the Warrens, Tendrils of Agony, Grapeshot, Silent Departure, Thoughtseize, and Shattering Spree.

I think the fourth Duress is at least a little better against Maverick than the fifth Chant effect, which is the matchup I like the Thoughtseize for the most. I hesitate to shave both, since I think the matchup is only slightly in our favour as it is. We have to beat multiple hatebears in game one, and hatebears and Mindbreak Traps in games two and three.

[Bryant Cook]

I tweak the sideboard often. Right now they're Past in Flames, Ill-Gotten Gains, Diminishing Returns, Empty the Warrens, Tendrils of Agony, Grapeshot, Silent Departure, Thoughtseize, and Shattering Spree.

I think the fourth Duress is at least a little better against Maverick than the fifth Chant effect, which is the matchup I like the Thoughtseize for the most. I hesitate to shave both, since I think the matchup is only slightly in our favour as it is. We have to beat multiple hatebears in game one, and hatebears and Mindbreak Traps in games two and three.

Maverick? The green/white deck?

So... you're going to draw the one of Thoughtseize to stop their turn two hate bear? Or Burning Wish turn 1, turn 2 Thoughtseize to stop their turn two hatebear? What if they don't have one? Too many resources lost on a "what if". Not to mention this is the only match-up Thoughtseize is better than Duress. Every other time Duress is better out of the sideboard. Duress/Thoughtseize/Silence/Chant are effectively the same card against Mindbreak Trap, they do the same thing for one mana. Except Chant effects can shut down a hand with two Traps.

I fail to see good reasoning.

[leegoo]

I think a good 99% of the time Maverick puts Teeg into play against me it's off the back of GSZ. I can't imagine you ever hitting Teeg off a TS

That said, I don't hate the idea of the thoughtseize staying as the wish target, just not for the justification above.

[Bryant Cook]

I think a good 99% of the time Maverick puts Teeg into play against me it's off the back of GSZ. I can't imagine you ever hitting Teeg off a TS

That said, I don't hate the idea of the thoughtseize staying as the wish target, just not for the justification above.

Then why bother keeping it? It's really not that big of a change to the sideboard, it's practically the same card.

"I don't like the new Facebook changes"
"Why?"
"They're different"
"Oh"
"Yeah, I don't have a good reason, I'll probably love it in two weeks"

[leegoo]

Then why bother keeping it? It's really not that big of a change to the sideboard, it's practically the same card.

"I don't like the new Facebook changes"
"Why?"
"They're different"
"Oh"
"Yeah, I don't have a good reason, I'll probably love it in two weeks"

I'll give you I don't have a strong defense for it, the best I can muster is that it is an upgrade swap on duress (albeit that's very minor) in the aggro matchups.

So I suppose you are right, although I still don't like the Facebook changes.

[dsck]

I think a good 99% of the time Maverick puts Teeg into play against me it's off the back of GSZ. I can't imagine you ever hitting Teeg off a TS

That said, I don't hate the idea of the thoughtseize staying as the wish target, just not for the justification above.

Maverick has post SB 3-4 hate bears (teeg and canonist) and 6 tutors (Enlightened tutor + gsz). So they have consistently turn 2 hate bear and turn 3 another or aven mindcensor. TES just has to pretty much go off fast and not care for the mind break trap most maverick lists dont even have.