[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

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Originally Posted by Ornament

Aside from the obvious inclusion of 4 polluted delta's. Which other fetches are best suited in ANT. Thank you.

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2 Green Sources:
4x Polluted Delta
3/4x Misty Rainforest
0/1x Bloodstained Mire
2x Underground Sea
1x Volcanic Island
1x Tropical Island
1x Bayou
1x Island
1x Swamp

4x Polluted Delta
4x U or B Fetch
2x Underground Sea
1x Volcanic Island
2x Tropical Island
1x Island
1x Swamp


2 Red Sources
4x Polluted Delta
3/4x Scalding Tarn
0/1x Verdant Catacombs
2x Underground Sea
1x Volcanic Island
1x Tropical Island
1x Badlands
1x Island
1x Swamp

4x Polluted Delta
4x U or B Fetch
2x Underground Sea
2x Volcanic Island
1x Tropical Island
1x Island
1x Swamp

Also, you can switch out a fetch land to up your Volcanic- or Tropical Island count.

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Originally Posted by Ornament

Aside from the obvious inclusion of 4 polluted delta's. Which other fetches are best suited in ANT. Thank you.

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What Tom said. Some explanation, in case you were wondering:
It is vital that you can find all your Duals with every fetch land you play.

If you run 1x Tropical, 1x Volcanic, 1x Bayou (2x green, 1x red),
you cannot run Tarn or Catacombs, because they fail to find Volcanic/Bayou
in this case you have to run Rainforest and Mire (they find all Duals).

If you run 1x Tropical, 1x Volcanic, 1x Badlands (2x red, 1x green),
you cannot run Rainforest and Mire, because they fail to find Tropical/Badlands
in this case you have to play Tarn and Catacombs (they find all Duals).

Whether you want to have 8x blue & 4x black fetch, or 7x blue & 5x black fetch, or 6x blue and black, is up to you.
The decks that attack the mana base most, tend to kill you slightly slower, so you have time to cantrip.
This is the reason why most choose to run more blue fetch than black (to fetch basic Island for our cantrips).
The cantrips will then hopefully find you a black fetch to get your basic Swamp to be able to safely cast discard.

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Originally Posted by Asthereal

What Tom said. Some explanation, in case you were wondering:
It is vital that you can find all your Duals with every fetch land you play.

If you run 1x Tropical, 1x Volcanic, 1x Bayou (2x green, 1x red),
you cannot run Tarn or Catacombs, because they fail to find Volcanic/Bayou
in this case you have to run Rainforest and Mire (they find all Duals).

If you run 1x Tropical, 1x Volcanic, 1x Badlands (2x red, 1x green),
you cannot run Rainforest and Mire, because they fail to find Tropical/Badlands
in this case you have to play Tarn and Catacombs (they find all Duals).

Whether you want to have 8x blue & 4x black fetch, or 7x blue & 5x black fetch, or 6x blue and black, is up to you.
The decks that attack the mana base most, tend to kill you slightly slower, so you have time to cantrip.
This is the reason why most choose to run more blue fetch than black (to fetch basic Island for our cantrips).
The cantrips will then hopefully find you a black fetch to get your basic Swamp to be able to safely cast discard.

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Not exactly true. You can find all colours. The one blackbased fetch can only find one of the 2 added sources of a colour: Bloodstained Mire can't fetch the Tropical Island, and Verdant Catacombs can't fetch the Volcanic Island.

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Originally Posted by Tom T

Not exactly true. You can find all colours. The one blackbased fetch can only find one of the 2 added sources of a colour: Bloodstained Mire can't fetch the Tropical Island, and Verdant Catacombs can't fetch the Volcanic Island.

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They can find all colours, yes, but not every Dual, and you don't want that, because it's not optimal. You want every fetch to be able to find every Dual you have, so you can always get the optimal Dual for the situation. And that's possible if you play the correct fetch lands. :wink:

(But you knew that, right? :tongue:)

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Originally Posted by Asthereal

They can find all colours, yes, but not every Dual, and you don't want that, because it's not optimal. You want every fetch to be able to find every Dual you have, so you can always get the optimal Dual for the situation. And that's possible if you play the correct fetch lands. :wink:

(But you knew that, right? :tongue:)

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Haha! Not exactly, Reinier :tongue:

4x Polluted Delta
3x Misty Rainforest
1x Bloodstained Mire
2x Underground Sea
1x Volcanic Island
1x Tropical Island
1x Bayou
1x Island
1x Swamp

^This is a solid base I play and I know Jamie plays this too. However, the Mire can't find both you're "sideboard"-coloured duals.

That's what I meant. This might be a reason to play the 4th Misty. However, I find myself fetching the basic Swamp pretty often.

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Originally Posted by Tom T

Haha! Not exactly, Reinier :tongue:

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Oh right, yeah I'm not paying too much attention it seems. :rolleyes:
Mire doesn't find Trop. It does find green though if you run Bayou.
So the fetches depend on the black Dual we play.

I should play this deck again sometimes. It's clearly been too long. :tongue:
(But I feel TES is better right now... tough stuff.)

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Originally Posted by Asthereal

Oh right, yeah I'm not paying too much attention it seems. :rolleyes:
Mire doesn't find Trop. It does find green though if you run Bayou.
So the fetches depend on the black Dual we play.

I should play this deck again sometimes. It's clearly been too long. :tongue:
(But I feel TES is better right now... tough stuff.)

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I feel like ANT is better against taxing counters and the best TES-build I can come up with is not that much faster than ANT. There is more PIF-hate in the meta right now. But with all the fast decks and ETW (and Ad Nauseam in a lesser extent) being a bad line more quickly, the USP's for TES aren't that appealing at the moment.

I would be playing Miracles or some Delver/Stoneblade concoction if I wasn't so addicted to Storm combo haha.

EDIT: Also, having at least 5 cards extra sideboard-space is awesome.

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Originally Posted by Tom T

I feel like ANT is better against taxing counters and the best TES-build I can come up with is not that much faster than ANT. There is more PIF-hate in the meta right now. But with all the fast decks and ETW (and Ad Nauseam in a lesser extent) being a bad line more quickly, the USP's for TES aren't that appealing at the moment.

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Yeah it's more a feeling than a science based argument.
And my playing style should suit ANT better anyway.
But I don't own Grim Tutor, and the explosiveness of TES just appeals to me. :cool:

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Originally Posted by Asthereal

Yeah it's more a feeling than a science based argument.
And my playing style should suit ANT better anyway.
But I don't own Grim Tutor, and the explosiveness of TES just appeals to me. :cool:

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You don´t need grim tutor, i m testing it with and without the card and are very good replacements like SDT, other buisness spell, or even a 3rd preordain for example!

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Originally Posted by Ancestral

You don´t need grim tutor, i m testing it with and without the card and are very good replacements like SDT, other buisness spell, or even a 3rd preordain for example!

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I don't have time to test what's best in my card pool.
Perhaps it's 3x Infernal Tutor, 3x Burning Wish.
Perhaps it's the second Ad Nauseam and 2x Chrome Mox or so.

I just don't like 16 cantrip ANT, because I'll just cantrip and cantrip and cantrip.
I'd rather just cough up 12 goblins and see where that gets me.

But it's a personal thing. Not a scientific thing.
ANT scores better numbers for a while now. Perhaps it is objectively better.

Hardest part for me is sideboarding, i play stocklist.
and this board.
3 xantid swarm
3 carpet of flowers
3 abrupt decay
1 tormod's crypt/surgical
3 dread of night
2 chain of vapors

take miracles
i could board in
+3 abrupt
+3 carpets
+3 xantid swarm

-1 past in flames
-3 cabal ritual (expect gy hosers and i want Ad naseum in because they dont pressure my lifetotal)
-2 preordains
-3 cabal therapy

Is this to much??? as far as my experience is that these games goes long and at the same time discard aint the best vs top and i expect RiP or other GY hoser.
This change make it a totally diffrent game (2-3) compare to preboard. i guess best strategy here is to sculpt to 8 cards vs 7 as they do not have any clock. what strategy do you use? i find it a pain in the ass when they mix Flusterstorm, Canonist and MM combined with their maindeck.

vs UR-delver do ppl bother to board at all?

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Originally Posted by Tom T

Haha! Not exactly, Reinier :tongue:

4x Polluted Delta
3x Misty Rainforest
1x Bloodstained Mire
2x Underground Sea
1x Volcanic Island
1x Tropical Island
1x Bayou
1x Island
1x Swamp

^This is a solid base I play and I know Jamie plays this too. However, the Mire can't find both you're "sideboard"-coloured duals.

That's what I meant. This might be a reason to play the 4th Misty. However, I find myself fetching the basic Swamp pretty often.

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I've always wondered why most prefer the Bayou/Badlands/2nd Island over the 9th fetchland. I've been going with a mana base of 9 fetches, 2 basics (swamp and island), 2 seas, 1 volcanic and 1 tropical. The 9th fetch over the Bayou increases the chance to cantrip the first couple of turns and makes 'trips better. Thoughts on this?

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Originally Posted by davelin

I've always wondered why most prefer the Bayou/Badlands/2nd Island over the 9th fetchland. I've been going with a mana base of 9 fetches, 2 basics (swamp and island), 2 seas, 1 volcanic and 1 tropical. The 9th fetch over the Bayou increases the chance to cantrip the first couple of turns and makes 'trips better. Thoughts on this?

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Most people play bayou over the 9th fetch to combat wasteland stripping you of your only green source. It just sucks having to sacrifice petals to get something like carpet of flowers into play because you lost your first green source to a wasteland.

exactly.

Having the bayou in the sideboard is also an option but i wouldn't recommend it.Let's play with 15 Cards not 14 ;)

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Originally Posted by Dia_Bot

Most people play bayou over the 9th fetch to combat wasteland stripping you of your only green source. It just sucks having to sacrifice petals to get something like carpet of flowers into play because you lost your first green source to a wasteland.

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Personally I don't bring in any green SB cards against decks with Wasteland.

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Originally Posted by davelin

Personally I don't bring in any green SB cards against decks with Wasteland.

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If you never play against MUD or Loam decks (or at least, you don't board in Abrupt Decay against them) you can get away with 1 green dual.

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Originally Posted by Tom T

If you never play against MUD or Loam decks (or at least, you don't board in Abrupt Decay against them) you can get away with 1 green dual.

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Fair enough, haven't played against MUD in awhile but you're right about these MUs.

My thoughts on the manabase:
1) How many lands? => 15 is pretty much the resolved answer for the standard ANT builds.
2) How many basics? => Swamp+Island is a given, the 2nd Island is possible (but uncommon now, and I don't like it especially with fewer wastelands around)
3) How many Sea? => 2 Sea is mandatory, I don't like a 3rd but it's playable.
4) How many fetches? => Mainly depends on splashes, I'd gladly play 10 but that would only leave 2 Sea, 2 Basics, 1 Volc. If you plan on casting multiple green spells versus Wasteland decks you need 2 green lands, otherwise one might suffice with a 9th fetch added.
5) Badlands or Bayou? => With only PiF+EtW in the list I prefer Bayou, if you also run a 2nd PiF or sb Pyroclasm or the like Badlands might be better.
6) How many U & B Fetches? => If I have two fetches I'd prefer them to fetch both basics, although I don't want to draw two fetches which do not fetch Island. So for me it's 3x U and 1x B. If I run 10 fetches I'd run 4:2, for 9 I think it's 4:1 but 3:2 might not be terrible either.
7) Which fetches? => 4 Delta are set. Tarn/Misty depending on green/red dependency and then a black fetch which lets you find all colors + swamp (3 Misty, 1 Mire with Bayou or 3 Tarn, 1 Catacombs with Badlands) is what I like in a 3/1 split. 4:0 split is quite clear. I don't like mixing blue fetches since there is only one 4th-color dual and all blue fetches will grab it.
8) SB Lands? => I'd only consider Karakas I think, we can use the sb slots better than a green dual with a 9th fetch main imo.

So I'd arrive at the lists TomT posted above basicly :p.

Madsk - I dont know if this boarding makes the deck or MU any better looks crazy, Carpet does nothing, XS are most prepared for, -3CR means you wont win fast -pif it wont be from gy so it's AdN only, longer game not particulary protected... 3Ad maybe a xs or 2 for 1cr and preordains seem better

Manabase - Jamie is spot on, cant argue with that but I sb G lands because of diferent nature of my deck, 9th fetch is more precious to me, option to go for 16 lands in stifle+waste MUs or 7 fetchables c omes sometimeshandy

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Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

Madsk - I dont know if this boarding makes the deck or MU any better looks crazy, Carpet does nothing, XS are most prepared for, -3CR means you wont win fast -pif it wont be from gy so it's AdN only, longer game not particulary protected... 3Ad maybe a xs or 2 for 1cr and preordains seem better

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Thanks for your reply.

I cant see any reason to have Carpet of Flowers in my sideboard if im not boarding it in vs the deck with most island in play (these games have a tendency to go long). Playing it vs wasteland decks is high risk medium reward as they can often operate on 2-3 islands, and a huge blowout if they counter it and waste you after.

What do you do vs multible hatebears MM, Canonist Thalia etc, do ppl bother to board in Dreads of Night when some of the hatebears is 2/2's? One bear is easy but 2-3 and its game over.