[Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

Link to the old thread: Click

Note: This primer is meant to be extensive. If you're a seasoned player of either the deck, or even perhaps Legacy as a whole, there might be some familiar truths further down. This primer was written with new players in mind, but it assumes familiarity with Magic as a game at least. It uses some common colloquial Magic terminology. Though the writer's own Magic resume might be modest, other writers with proven skill are quoted or referenced throughout the primer.


Background:
Threshold as a deck has its roots in both the old Extended format and in Vintage. In Extended, there once existed a deck known as Gro, an aggro-control deck, blue-green, with a very low mana curve, plenty of cantrips and big green finishers like Werebear and Quirion Dryad. In Vintage, around 2005, there was a deck dubbed "Birdsh*t", which paired the disruptive elements of the Fish decks (Stifle, Wasteland, Daze, Force of Will, Misdirection) with creatures like Nimble Mongoose, Werebear and Meddling Mage. These decks could be regarded as the progenitors of the first Legacy Threshold lists.

In the beginning, Threshold came in very different varieties - some splashed white for Swords to Plowshares and Mystic Enforcer, some played straight blue-green Threshold, some played Counterbalance and Sensei's Divining Top, and some played big-impact cards like Blood Moon and Fledgling Dragon. The deck dubbed Canadian Threshold had none of this. It was a raw tempo deck, designed to disrupt the opponents early plays with Stifle and Wasteland, land a creature and protect it with Daze and Force of Will, and ride it all the way home. The deck popularised by David Caplan and Lam Phan looked something like this:


UGr Canadian Thresh, by David Caplan, circa 2007-2008

2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
4 Tropical Island
4 Volcanic Island

4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Fire // Ice
1 Rushing River
1 Wipe Away

It's amazing how much of the deck is still relevant today. Above is essentially the same deck that's still relevant in today's Legacy meta game. Caplan's list plays full sets of Spell Snare and Fire // Ice, which one won't see today, and the last two cards were considered "flex slots" even back then, but otherwise it's very similar to the RUG lists of today. Caplan lists some of his achievements with the list in this article.

Canadian Threshold (henceforth known as RUG for the sake of brevity) existed almost unchanged all the way up to the release of Innistrad. Up until then, new cards like Green Sun's Zenith, Dismember and maybe above all, Spell Pierce was played in both the main deck and sideboard with varying success. Innistrad, however, had Delver of Secrets. This humble common Transform creature turned out to be a true powerhouse, and it pushed RUG to the very forefront of the format, as one of the best decks - if not the very best deck in Legacy.


RUG today:
Back during Caplan's success with the list, it was commonly agreed that 58 of the cards in the main deck were tried, tested and true, and only the flex slots - commonly consisting of either catch-all bounce spells in Rushing River, Wipe Away or very early Snapback, or more threats like Vendilion Clique - were ever up for debate. These days, we're at six flex slots, and the common "Thresh 54" looks like this:

8 fetch lands
4 Wasteland
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Stifle
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt

These 54 cards make up the foundation of RUG, and as a player one needs very strong reasons to make any changes to these cards. The last six cards, however, are completely meta-dependant and up to personal preference. A common set up is:

2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
2 Forked Bolt

Other cards that could be a part of these flex slots include, but are not limited to, Dismember, Fire // Ice, Gitaxian Probe, Chain Lightning and more rarely Tarfire. These eight cards are up to each individual pilot, and each come with its own up- and downsides. In a meta of mostly fair decks, meaning decks that actually pay for its spells and wins with creatures, it makes sense to stick up on more removal. Forked Bolt is the preferred method, since it comes with the ability to trade two-for-one, but Tarfire is instant and pumps Tarmogoyf, Chain Lightning is excellent when it comes to aiming for the opponent's face, and Dismember can kill Tarmogoyfs, Batterskull tokens and other larger creatures and so on. On the other hand, in a meta game of unfair decks, decks that tend to cast nine spells and then a Tendrils of Agony or put a Griselbrand into play without paying full price, it's preferred to play with more counter magic.

Most tend to go down a middle road and play a bit of each.


The controversial Probe
Gitaxian Probe is the odd one out, and hasn't found real popularity quite yet, but needs to be evaluated in a different light than the other cards. A turn 1 Gitaxian Probe can provide extremely useful information for the RUG pilot, for example, whether or not one should leave mana up for Stifle or play a Delver. It also often pumps Tarmogoyf, since RUG tends to play only Ponder and Forked Bolt for Sorcerys, and it is a card in the graveyard for threshold and thus Nimble Mongoose. Lastly it cantrips, and it does all of this for absolutely no mana. Pilots of UWR Delver has known the power of Gitaxian Probe for quite some time now, and while UWR is also a tempo deck with cards that tend to lose power the further the game knows, they often don't play Stifle, one of Legacy's most situational but powerful cards. They also don't have any creatures with threshold, and only rarely even utilize the grave through Grim Lavamancer. RUG loves cards in the graveyard a lot more, and also plays Stifle and should in theory make better use of the card than UWR Delver.

Lately even BUG Delver pilots have begun tinkering with the card. Jerry Mee took this list all the way to third place at SCG Providence in June of 2014, and while the deck is BUG in colours, it's RUG at heart, with Stifle, Spell Pierce and only 18 lands, all three not common choices for the archetype known as Team America. Jerry Mee also chose to play 62 cards in his main deck to fit in the entire set of Gitaxian Probes, and stresses the importance of the card in this report here on the Source.

While playing more than 60 cards in RUG might not be correct, it is evident that the RUG pilot seriously needs to consider Gitaxian Probe in the main deck.


The 54 and why they're awesome, or card-by-card analysis:
The lands: Earlier versions of RUG played mostly the same manabase as the RUG of today, but with the ratio of fetch lands and duals swapped. Today, most people prefer to go with 8 fetch lands and 6 duals, to help Nimble Mongoose grow, and to power up Brainstorm and Ponder. Wasteland is technically a land, but is rarely used to cast spells. In most RUGs, the only spell in in the main deck Wasteland could help cast is Tarmogoyf, and even then it is quite rare.

Wasteland could be regarded as a zero-mana Stone Rain which prevents you from using your own land drop that turn. Even then, it's extremely powerful. However, it is best used when RUG is already ahead on the board, or else it just prolongs the game in the best-case scenario and sets RUG back even further in the worst-case scenario.


The creatures: These twelve creatures are pound-for-pound some of the most efficient beaters in the format. Nimble Mongoose is the creature that separates RUG from other Delver decks, and it is immensely helpful against decks with cheap and efficient spot-removal, such as Swords to Plowshares, Abrupt Decay or Lightning Bolt. It is rather slow, compared to the other two creatures however, but worth its weight in gold in some match-ups.

Contrary to many other Legacy decks, the creatures in RUG are there to so what creatures were designed to do - swing for the fences. There is nothing fancy about the creatures here, they are just ruthless, efficient and above all, cheap to cast.


Daze and Force of Will: These counterspells are part of what makes RUG such a strong deck. Its inherent ability to interact with the opponent even while tapped out means RUG is often able to drop a creature and protect it even when seemingly out of options. Daze is stronger in RUG than in other decks like UWR Delver or BUG Delver, in the former case because Stifle means Daze is relevant for more turns, and in the latter because RUG's curve is lower, and returning an Island to your hand is therefore a relatively cheaper price to pay.

These can be boarded out in some match-ups, however. Daze is a lot weaker on the draw than on the play, and Force of Will is quite bad when RUG is faced with another fair deck, because trading two cards for one with the opponent is not what you want to do when you're in for a race.


Lightning Bolt: This is quite frankly one of the most flexible, if not the most flexible, removals in all of Magic. It is often used to remove blockers or take down creatures with some sort of utility (Deathrite Shaman, Stoneforge Mystic or Dark Confidant, just to name a few), but it can also be used to close a game earlier than an opponent predicts. A Lightning Bolt to the face is an entire turn of swinging with a flipped Delver of Secrets or a threshed Nimble Mongoose. It can be sided out against combo decks, but this upside, the fact that it can be aimed at the opponent, means that it's far from as dead as other removal spells like Swords to Plowshares or Abrupt Decay against combo.


Stifle: This card has been an issue for debate for a lot of RUG's life in the format. Drew Levin, in his old Threshold primer, talks the card down, but he still includes it in a newer article about a year and a half later. Stifle is one of those cards that has a million applications, but is in itself not that powerful. It is included primarily to counter fetch land activations, but in reality it has to be used more like a utility spell, being both a permanent solution in some cases and a temporary solution in others.

It can be used as a permanent answer to Legacy's plethora of abilities against cards like Stoneforge Mystic's, Rest in Peace's or Snapcaster Mage's enters-the-battlefield triggers, against Miracle triggers on Terminus, against Cascade triggers on Shardless Agent or Bloodbraid Elf, against the trigger cards like Ancestral Vision creates when the last counter is removed, against Engineered Explosives, Pernicious Deed and so on.

Further, it is a temporary solution to cards like Jace, the Mind Sculptor or Lilliana of the Veil, or Batterskull. The fact that Stifle is temporary in these situations is moot, RUG thrives on the tempo these plays create.

Historically, Stifle has fallen out of favour because of other decks like Merfolk which are more or less Stifle-proof. These days, play it and play the set. Learn to cast it for tempo and value.


Brainstorm and Ponder: The former of these two is rather controversial, and most players, from the loudest players in the "ban Brainstorm" camp to the most ardent of its defenders, agree that it is probably the best card in the format. It is therefor a shame that so many people make grave mistakes when playing with it. Newer players might get stuck at the card type line and play it exclusively at the end of the opponent's turn, only to untap and immediately draw one of the cards he or she put back. This is far from the optimal way of playing Brainstorm because then it might as well read:


Bad Brainstorm :u:
Instant
Draw three cards then put to cards from your hand on the top of your library in any order. Skip your next two turns.


This is hyperbole, but it is at least an indicator of what happens when one plays Legacy's best card in the way described above. For context, a well-played Brainstorm is the equivalent of an Ancestral Recall.

What many newer players fail to realise is that by waiting until your own main phase, Brainstorm digs a card deeper, and therefore lets you see more cards in the end, trading a blue mana for this fact. This trade is well worth it in RUG, which can easily still operate by dropping another land and casting all but four spells in the deck.

AJ Sacher has written an article about this phenomenon. The article as a whole is well worth the read, but it's not all applicable to RUG. To summarise, before casting Brainstorm, a RUG pilot should first answer these three questions:

1. Do I have a way to shuffle my library after casting the Brainstorm?

2. Do I have two dead cards to put back on top of my library?

3. Do I need to play a threat, or find the answer to a threat now?

If the answer to at least one of these questions above is "no", then it's usually better to wait a turn. Save the Brainstorm, see more cards and work with more information. It should be noted that these rules are far from set in stone, and even the most experienced RUG pilot could get Brainstorm-locked (i.e. be forced to put back two bad cards and draw them again naturally over the course of two agonising turns), but it should serve well as a guideline.

Ponder operates a different space as a cantrip, since it is sorcery speed and comes with a built-in shuffle effect. Its synergy with fetch lands should be noted, however, because it allows the RUG pilot to grab one or two good cards from a Ponder, while shuffling away the bad ones.

RUG tends to play these cards quite aggressively compared to many other Legacy decks. This is because RUG likes it when it gets to disrupt the opponent's early game, land a threat and then just take it from there, which sometimes means casting Brainstorms and Ponders, especially the latter, only to find a creature to exploit a temporary gain.


Tempo, or How it Ends:
Tempo as a term in Legacy has a few different definitions, and it has yet to be explained in this primer, despite occurring numerous times above. Adrian Sullivan writes in an old article that Tempo decks "Generally wins the game by playing out creatures quickly and then negating an opponent's attempt to kill them long enough to win the game." This is RUG's very essence, it wants to play an early threat, control the opponent's board development through Stifle and Wasteland, counter answers to RUG's threats with Daze and Force of Will and then win before the opponent can get a foot in the door.

If this plan is somehow evaded, and if the opponent finds ways to interrupt the threats of RUG, or if he somehow gets to play his bombs, RUG will probably lose. Each card in RUG has a small effect, and the pilot must learn to sequence the plays correctly in order to maximise the output from each spell.

That said RUG top decks quite well. It won't draw itself out of a tight spot with a giant spell that turns the board state around, like a Terminus or a Jace, the Mind Sculptor or things like that, but it does play a criminally low amount of lands, meaning more than two thirds of RUG's draw steps will result in a new spell in hand. This is not to be underestimated.


On inevitability, and what RUG's up against
Mike Flores writes in "Who's The Beatdown?" about the different roles different decks might assume in a game of Magic. The article, despite its age, is worth the read if you haven't read it already, but essentially - Flores states that in a match-up of similar decks, it's important to identify what role you have to play. The two that Flores identify he dubs "beatdown" and "control" respectivly, and he notes that decks could very well in some match-ups be beatdown, but have to switch to a control role in other match-ups, or else they'll lose.

Flores writes, among other things,:
In similar deck vs. similar deck matchups, there are a couple of things that you want to look at to figure out what role to play:
1. Who has more damage? Usually he has to be the beatdown deck.
2. Who has more removal? Usually he has to be the control deck.
3. Who has more permission and card drawing? Almost always he has to be the control deck.
If you are the beatdown deck, you have to kill your opponent faster than he can kill you. If you are the control deck, you have to weather the early beatdown and get into a position where you can gain card advantage.


I like to use the word "inevitability" instead. Basically, there are decks that, given enough time, will amass the mana and cards necessary to render any attempts from RUG to win the game pointless. For example, a deck like Miracles aims to prolong the game as long as possible, using cards like Counterbalance + Sensei's Divining Top, Swords to Plowshares + Snapcaster Mage, Terminus, and so on, in an effort to simply survive long enough to make enough land-drops, and eventually cast a Jace, the Mind Sculptor with enough protection to get him to 12+ counters, or an Entreat the Angels with enough angels to kill in a single swing, clearly too many for RUG to deal with. In this match-up, Miracles has the inevitability, do to its higher amount of bombs in the deck, and thus, RUG will have to be the aggressor, the beatdown, in order to win. However, a deck like Team America (BUG Delver) also has the inevitability against RUG, because given enough time, BUG will find one of its Tombstalkers, a creature that RUG has a hard time dealing with, and probably go on to win if it doesn't get countered. Team America will often find itself in the beatdown role, however, so this is never static.

RUG, because of its blessing as a tempo deck, is often the beatdown, because many opponents have the inevitability. Most decks will beat us if you compare the highest-power card in RUG, with the highest-powered cards in other decks, because the low mana curve and tiny mana base of RUG doesn't have any room for any Jace, the Mind Sculptors, Natural Orders, or other high-power, high-cost spells. RUG's power lies with the early turns of the game, before the opponent can establish a proper board, and as such, RUG can rarely fall back on its own inevitability. It does happen, against Storm combo for example, but RUG rarely have the luxury to fall back on the raw power of its cards.


RUG in Legacy today:
Commander 2013 came with an entirely new threat in True-Name Nemesis, and it has certainly made an impact on the format. Looking form RUG's point of view, it can't interact with True-Name Nemesis outside of the stack at all. Other decks have founds tools to deal with it in Golgari Charm, Edicts or similar narrow sideboard tech, some play main deck answers to it in Terminus and Supreme Verdict, while others just plain don't care about it since they are busy trying to be even more un-interactive with cards like Show and Tell or the Storm mechanic.

RUG will have to face this new threat in some other way, and upping the number of Pyroblasts or Red Elemental Blasts in the sideboard to at least three is a good start. Further, True-Name Nemesis tends to come hand-in-hand with equipments, meaning having a good artifact removal spell like Ancient Grudge, maybe even two, in the sideboard will prevent it from going completely nuts. RUG could in theory play its own True-Name Nemesis, but lacks the equipment or Merfolk lords to make it really worthwhile. Further, it doesn't really want to cast three-mana spells at all.

Also printed recently (in Legacy time) are three cards from the Return to Ravnica set. One of these, Abrupt Decay, is a removal spell which can't be countered in conventional ways. It doesn't hit Nimble Mongoose, but it does mean that Tarmogoyf and Delver of Secrets are more fragile than ever. Another is a one-mana Planeswalker (more or less) in Deathrite Shaman, which should be killed on-sight every time without mercy. It allows the opponent to negate the mana-denial plan of RUG to some extent, while it shrinks Tarmogoyf and Nimble Mongoose. The last, Rest in Peace, completely shuts down two thirds of RUGs threats, and such should be countered at all times if possible. It can be handled through Stifle to some extent, since it at least lets RUG keep threshold or keep Tarmogoyf at a threatening size, even though it prevents more cards from entering graveyards. RUG also lacks the luxury that Abrupt Decay provides in these circumstances, unfortunately.

Despite all these new threats to its position, and despite it not doing quite as well right now as it has done for the past year-and-a-half, RUG remains a strong contender in Legacy. It does have a heavy skill requirement on its pilot, but it has proven over and over that it can thrive in almost any given meta game.


The Controversial Nemesis
One way to adress parts of the problems listed above, mainly the frailty of some of the deck's threats, and the deck's reliability on the graveyard is to add True-Name Nemesis to it. As far as True-Name Nemesis shells goes, tempo-based RUG is probably one of the least effective, since it lacks the mana-acceleration to power it out in a game's early turns, and it also lacks the equipment necessary to make the True-Name Nemesis truly effective. That said, True-Name Nemesis is one of those cards that many fair decks struggle to deal with, at least pre-board. It's evasive, difficult to remove and can also be a defensive road-block for any non-evasive creature on the other side.

There are no certainties in Magic, less-so with partially un-proven lists. People have experimented with running various creature bases in the deck, replacing 1-2 Tarmogoyf with True-Name Nemesis while making no other changes to the deck, cutting Tarmogoyf completely for 3 True-Name Nemesis and an Island, and so on. It seems that the metagame have adapted to True-Name Nemesis and he is not the be-all, end-all of creatures that some predicted he would be, but he does make some difficult match-ups on the fair side of the spectrum easier, like Death and Taxes, while still being effectively shroud threat 5+ against Miracles.

RUG’s sideboard
Even more-so than the six flex slots in the main deck, RUG’s sideboard, like all other sideboards, is meta-dependent. That said, there are cards that tend to pop up a lot more often than others. In this guide, I will present the cards in a tiered order, and the tiers will be based upon how likely it is that the sideboarded card will be useful in a general, unknown metagame. A higher tier card will therefor show up more often in RUG sideboards than a low tier card, but will not be more powerful necessarily. For example, if half of your field is Affinity, upping the number of artifact removals in the board is probably the right call. However, if your field is mostly made up of other tier 1 decks, and the artifacts you’re aiming to destroy are mostly Umezawa’s Jittes and Batterskulls, keeping the number of artifact removals in the board around one or two is the right call. This is quite arbitrary, but will suffice as a guideline to newer players constructing a sideboard for a larger tournament.


Top-tier (will probably be in just about every RUG sideboard):
Red Elemental Blast and Pyroblast: Blue is the best colour in Legacy and likely in Magic as a game. This, in turn, makes Red Elemental Blast and Pyroblast the best hosers for the best colour in the game. With True-Name Nemesis in the format and Merfolk looking like a nightmare match-up, playing 3 of these is given, maybe even 4. Some play a split of the two, some play only Pyroblasts and so on, and they are functionally very similar. However, one can Pyroblast any random permanent to turn on a Nimble Mongoose, a card functionality that almost never comes up, but could happen in theory. Further, UWR Delver plays Meddling Mage, who could also in theory name either Blast, meaning a split is, in theory, the wisest choice. These are very fringe occurrences, however, and if you’re sitting on beautiful Beta Red Elemental Blasts, nobody will judge you for playing a set of them.

Submerge: Another given card, and it’s difficult to describe exactly how awesome it is in the right match-ups. Consider the trade you’re making if you just Submerge a creature they have just cast, in your own turn, before you attack. You’ve both used one card, but your opponent paid mana for his, you’ve removed a blocker and also set him back a draw step, since your opponent will likely have to use his draw to re-draw the same creature he has already cast once. It’s a fantastic tempo swing. Like Stifle, Submerge is also a more or less permanent answer to creatures if it’s cast in response to a shuffle effect, such as a fetch land. This doesn’t happen that often, but the other upsides of Submerge makes it well worth 2 or 3 slots in the sideboard.

Flusterstorm and Spell Pierce: It’s likely that the latter is already a part of the main deck, but depending on numbers, more copies of it might be justified in certain metagames. Flusterstorm is a less-versatile but sometimes more powerful variant of Spell Pierce, and should be seriously considered as a means of not only winning every counterwar ever, but also as extra countermagic against combo decks. Living the dream includes playing it in response to a Tendrils of Agony, but it’s unlikely to happen, since it’s much more probable that the combo pilot has Duress’d or Silence’d you before you get a chance to cast it. That said, Flusterstorm might be well worth a slot or two in most sideboards.

Surgical Extraction and Grafdigger’s Cage: These two are probably the most common graveyard hate played in RUG today. The former doesn’t cost use mana and can be cast on turn 0, which is great considering the rest of the deck’s plan, while the latter is a more permanent solution to problematic decks. Grafdigger’s Cage also doubles as a great card against Elves, since it turns off Natural Order and Green Sun’s Zenith. Most sideboards has a couple of these, exactly which is up to preference. Grafdigger’s Cage is probably the most powerful one in a vacuum, however.

Artifact destruction (Ancient Grudge, Krosan Grip, Destructive Revelry, Artifact Mutation): True-Name Nemesis has put a dent in the metagame as a whole, for sure, and he often comes with his best friend, Stoneforge Mystic, handing him either a Sword of Fire and Ice or an Umezawa’s Jitte, making the Nemesis impossible to race with our Delver of Secrets. Batterskull is another problematic card that can usually stop RUG in its tracks. As such, it is highly recommended to devote one or two slots to artifact removals. Ancient Grudge is the most powerful one, since it’s more difficult to counter than Destructive Revelry and Artifact Mutation, and it also contains inherent card advantage, something that is very rare in RUG and usually something the deck doesn’t do. The others come with their own special effects, Krosan Grip and Destructive Revelry has the upsides of being able to destroy Rest in Peace and other problematic enchantments, while Artifact Mutation can really swing the board state around if it’s aimed at a Batterskull.


High-tier (likely to be seen in most RUG sideboards):
Rough // Tumble: Rough is a Pyroclasm that doesn’t kill our flipped Delver of Secrets. Excellent card in many metagames, good against many of RUG’s difficult match-ups. Rough kills most of the format’s creatures outright, and is practically a one-sided Wrath of God against the decks where you want it. One or two should suffice.

Sulfur Elemental: This card was perhaps more justified when Lingering Souls was more common in the format, but it’s still a fantastic hate card against decks like Death and Taxes, where it kills most everything the deck plays, but most importantly Mother of Runes and Thalia, Guardian of Thraben. Sulfur Elemental might be worth it as at least a singleton if you expect decks like these.

Grim Lavamancer: Another really strong card in the match-ups against fair creature decks. The only problem is that he competes with Nimble Mongoose for graveyard resources. Some versions of RUG has played with Thought Scour, back when the format was so fast that turning on Threshold now was of utmost importance.

Pithing Needle: This card can shut down a lot of the most problematic permanents in Legacy today. Examples include Liliana of the Veil and other Planeswalkers, Sensei's Divining Top, Sneak Attack or most equipments. Pithing Needle is typically used against control decks, but can be brought in against other offenders. Phyrexian Revoker is another similar card which also can swing, but might prove too fragile. If you expect a lot of Miracles, one or two in the sideboard might be worth it.


Mid-tier (cards strong against certain decks or certain metagames):
Sulfuric Vortex: Anti-control card and presents a hard-to-remove clock. Makes it very possible to race things like Batterskull. Sulfuric Vortex effectively acts as an unblockable creature against the control decks of the format, and it is a strong inclusion in the deck if Miracles is common. However, most Miracle decks will probably board Engineered Explosives against RUG, so they can in theory remove Sulfuric Vortex too. It's also quite expensive and harder to cast than most any other spell in the deck, since it recquires two Volcanic Islands in play.

True-Name Nemesis: The new bogeyman on the block can be included in RUG's sideboard too, and he does very well against many decks. He is another Shroud creature alongside Nimble Mongoose, and he completely shifts the tone of the games against other non-blue fair decks. That said, he is expensive at three mana and quite slow in RUG compared to other decks who run him alongside Lords to pump him or equipments. He could very well be part of the RUG sideboard in most metagames with a decent amount of fair decks.

Winter Orb: This humble two-mana artifact throws a huge wrench in Miracle's machinery, since activating Sensei's Divining Top constantly becomes much less attractive if they don't get to untap all their lands. Also good against other mana-hungry decks like Jund. A fringe card, and probably better in decks with Deathrite Shaman, like Team America. Still worth consideration in certain metagames.

Life from the Loam: Great card for recurring Wasteland or other lands in grindy match-ups. It fills the graveyard for Nimble Mongoose quickly too. One could easily find its way into a sideboard if the expected metagame is full of slower control decks with plenty of nonbasics, like BUG control-variants (BUGstill etc.)

Vendilion Clique: Another :1::u::u: creature, and very good in some certian situations. It can nab Terminus in response to the Miracle trigger, or Life from the Loam at the end of their draw steps, or he could be flashed in in the opponent's end step to assassinate a Planeswalker, or it could be used as an instant-speed Duress against combo. Very versatile, but also quite expensive.

Mind Harness: Pseudo-removal that could turn around a board state completely. It was commonly played in previous years, when GWx creature decks like Maverick were popular and Knight of the Reliquary was everywhere. These days, those decks aren't quite as common as before, and even though BUG is very common in many metagames, Submerge is probably the better card overall.

Sylvan Library: Interesting card which allows RUG to create card-advantage, something the deck isn't really designed to do and rarely does. It's great in control match-ups where lifetotal doesn't matter as much, but it's card-disadvantage for no profit at all the turn you cast it. Consider it as a singleton at most.

Scavenging Ooze: Another threat, and a pretty good one against certain decks. It's very mana-hungry, however, and recquires multiple Tropical Islands in play to make an impact against Dredge, and as such shouldn't be relied upon to do that particular duty.


Low-tier (cards with fewer applications in a general metagame, but could be considered in certain narrow metagames):
Cursed Totem: A great card against Maverick, which relies heavily on all their creatures to be more than "just a beater". Not so great against many other decks. Fringe value, but awesome in certain match-ups.

Null Rod: In some metagames, deciding between this one and Pithing Needle might be difficult. Null Rod shuts down Sensei's Divining Top, Aether Vial, most equipment aside from Batterskull, mana-artifacts like Mox Diamond, and so on. It also shuts down the entire Affinity archetype, so if that has a presence, it's definitely worth consideration. Pithing Needle is cheaper, however, and can also hit Planeswalkers, manlands, creatures with activated abilities and so on.

Gilded Drake: Specific hate for Show and Tell. Very narrow, but very powerful when it does work. In most metagames, it's probably more efficient to stock up on countermagic to hate on other decks as well.

Divert: In theory, Divert lets you do cool things like Diverting a Hymn to Tourach back against the opponent, or an Abrupt Decay kills their own Tarmogoyf instead of yours and so on, but in practice, Divert is probably the most narrow counterspell available to us. It can potentially generate a lot of value, but in most sideboards it is better to include more general answers, like Spell Pierce or Flusterstorm.

Zuran Orb: Specific hate for the Burn match-up, a deck that is likely to appear in at least some copies in a larger tournament, and it's also a match-up we can't afford to lose. Other than that it has few applications, so it could really only be run as a singleton.



There is a more extensive post in the old Canadian Threshold thread, found here, though it's a little bit out of date. I've used much of the information from that post in the list above.



Sideboarding, general notes
No sideboarding guide can possibly exhaust all the lines possible when it comes to sideboarding and playing games with a sideboarded decks. What's important to note is that the sideboard, often an after-thought, is used in a majority of the games one will play with a deck, if we assume roughly half of the matches will go to three games. Therefore, it is of
utmost importance that a player tests both pre- and postboarded games against popular decks in the field when preparing for a larger tournament.

RUG plays a full set of Force of Will. Historically, people have experimented with that number and has tried to go down to 3 copies - the same has been successful in other decks like Esper Stoneblade or Team America. However, these decks have cards like Swords to Plowshares, Abrupt Decay, Vindicate and similar to deal with problematic permanents that RUG finds are must-counters since Lightning Bolt will not touch a Tarmogoyf, for example. As such, keeping the number of Force of Wills at the full set seems like the best choice in most given meta games, simply because RUG lives and dies on its ability to interact on the stack.

With all this in mind, one must still conclude that Force of Will is one of the worst cards against a large portion of the field, specifically against other fair decks with a high amount of redundancy. For example, it's often bad to Force of Will a Grizzly Bear on one turn, only to have the opponent cast a Runeclaw Bear on his next turn. This specific example is unlikely to ever happen in a real game of Legacy, but this is essentially how the matches against other decks that aim to win through creatures can play out. Trading 2-for-1 in cards is always bad, but it is especially bad against opponents who are more likely to not care about that. Thus, Force of Will is one of the most commonly sideboarded card in RUG, but this does not mean that it is not worth running in the main deck.

Similarly, Daze loses a lot of power when we're on the draw, since returning a land to our hand to counter their two-drop is in some cases a negative tempo swing that we sometimes can't come back from. If we don't have a good one-drop, such as a Delver of Secrets, or some other way to use the mana from the returned land, it's not uncommon that the game can just be regarded as out the window, if that line of play is the only option. That said, Daze is often useful in a lot of match-ups, since it doesn't cost us another card, just a land drop, in our mana light deck. Daze can be kept in the deck post-sideboard, in at least a couple of copies, against other decks with tight mana bases.

Conversely, on the other side of the spectrum of fair, redundant decks, are the unfair decks that revolve around breaking some fundamental rules of this game - such as paying 2U for an Emrakul, or decks that use a mechanic that is fundamentally broken, namely Storm. Against these decks, it's not uncommon to sideboard out RUG's removal, with the extra pieces in Forked Bolt, Dismember or Fire // Ice biting the dust before Lightning Bolt. Lightning Bolt generally loses a lot of value if RUG's up against a deck with no other targets bar the opponent, but that said, these are also often decks that side in creatures like Xantid Swarm, an excellent target for Lightning Bolt, and also a compelling argument not to side out the entire set. In some periods of Legacy's long and rich history, Storm combo has been known to sideboard in high-utility creatures like Dark Confidant, against decks with few removal spells. This is very unorthodox these days, however. The point is that it's likely that keeping a couple of Lightning Bolts in the deck for games two and three is often the right call. It should also be noted, as above, that Lighning Bolt constitutes something that is colloquially known as "reach" (not to be confused with the keyword), which essentially means that RUG often has the luxury of closing a game a turn earlier than the opponent expected, which is highly relevant against all forms of combo, who almost always has the inevitability.


Example sideboards
Below are a few recent sideboards of successful Canadian Threshold lists in America. Expect a hasty update with some European versions shortly. The main decks are more or less the standard RUG 54 unless specified.

David Bauer - T16 SCG Charlotte 2014-03-30
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Null Rod
2 Grim Lavamancer
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Spell Pierce
3 Submerge
2 Rough // Tumble


Ben Weinburg - T8 SCG Detroit 2014-04-20
2 Grim Lavamancer
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Dismember
1 Flusterstorm
1 Krosan Grip
1 Pyroblast
2 Spell Pierce
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Rough // Tumble


Morgan McLaughlin - Champion SCG Detroit 2014-04-20 (0 Stifle, 1 True-Name Nemesis maindeck)
2 True-Name Nemesis
1 Sylvan Library
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Flusterstorm
3 Pyroblast
3 Submerge
2 Rough // Tumble

Match-ups
It could, again, be stated that RUG by its very definition has almost no auto-loss match-ups. RUG has game against almost any deck, due to its inherent strengths in free counters, cheap threats, efficient removal and solid consistency. That said, RUG has almost no auto-wins either. There are games where your opponent mulligans to five and just dies to Stifle + any threat, but most games will be tight. Many of the match-ups are listed as "even", though they may in actuality be 55/45 or 45/55 match-ups - I find that trying to put percentages on match-ups is very arbitrary and also highly likely to change depending on each individual list. As such, I've called them "favorable", "even" and "unfavorable" - and most belong in the center, RUG will as stated almost never auto-lose, but many games will also recquire a skilled pilot to navigate the deck to victory. Because the deck has no auto-win match-ups either, it's imperative that a RUG pilot, before a large event, test the gauntlet of the expected metagame, and comes up with a plan for each match-up.

The sideboarding plans assume the standard RUG 54 list with 2 Spell Pierce, 2 Spell Snare, 2 Forked Bolt in the flex slots, and the "IN" parts assume something along the lines of an example sideboard listed above.

Mirror Even match-up (no, really?)
Mirror matches with RUG, and matches against other Delver decks, may very well be the most skill-intensive, tight and swingy matches in all of Magic. Sometimes, though, they boil down to Tarmogoyf wars which are quite uninteractive and one-sided. The mirror, especially, can go this way, since we have few ways to deal with a Tarmogoyf once it hits the board (really none, barring the rare Dismember, Ice or a Goyf war + Lightning Bolt), and trading two cards for one and Force of Will a Tarmogoyf could be disastrous if the opponent plays another one the next turn.

Further, in the mirror, it's also very possible that one player keeps a mana-light hand and gets completely destroyed by a couple of timely Stifles or Wastelands, which renders most of the game academic. To prevent this from happening, keeping four or even five lands in your opening hand is sometimes the correct move. An opening hand of, say Tarmogoyf, Brainstorm, Daze, 2 fetch lands, Tropical Island, Wasteland is a perfectly keepable hand in the mirror, even if Tarmogoyf is our slowest threat and even if the hand might slow down even more due to Daze. Playing very conservatively around Stifle, Wasteland and Daze can be tedious, but a necessity in the mirror.

OUT: Force of Will, Stifle
IN: Submerge, Pyroblast

Force of Will is bad, as is stated above, since trading card parity in the match-up can put you really far behind. Pyroblast can act as extra removal against opposing Delvers, and Submerge is a real bomb against both flipped Delvers and Tarmogoyfs, and it can completely change the board state from a losing position to a winning position.


Team America (BUG Delver): Even match-up
Team America is the new top dog in the Legacy metagame, and it's a deck one needs to be prepared for. The deck is close to RUG in that it has Brainstorm and Ponder for consistency, Daze and Force of Will for free counterspells, and Tarmogoyf for beats. However, while Team America started off as a tempo deck much like RUG, with Stifle, Wasteland, 12 (!) free spells in the previous mentioned counterspells together with Snuff Out, and even Sinkhole for extra disruption, the deck has since evolved quite a lot compared to RUG. Team America these days aim to throw large amounts of disruption on the opponent through a more "tap out" game plan, and it generally aims to steal away the game early on with Deathrite Shaman into Hymn to Tourach + Wasteland or Hymn to Tourach + Delver of Secrets. However, the early game is where we excel, and the match-up is far from unfavorable, contrary to what some Team America pilot might think.

A few things to note: Deathrite Shaman has to die on the spot, each and every time. A lot of their deck's consistency hinges upon it, it messes with our Threshold and it can even shrink Tarmogoyf. Their mana-base is quite greedy, with only 16 coloured sources and 4 Deathrite Shaman to cast Brainstorm, Hymn to Tourach and Abrupt Decay early on. As such, our mana-denial plan is often quite potent, and if we can Stifle a fetch and follow it up with a Wasteland and a threat, things often look good. The games can be very swingy, and while they have 4 maindecked uncounterable answers to our Tarmogoyfs, we have no real answers to theirs bar countermagic. The post-board games are still swingy, but we have Submerge while often they do not, which is very potent in the tempo mirror.

We're aggro and they are control in the match-up, due to our better early game and lower curve. They have the inevitability with Tombstalker and/or True-Name Nemesis, both of which we have no answers to pre-board and few answers post-board, outside the stack.

OUT: Force of Will
IN: Submerge

While both Daze and Stifle lose power on the draw, they are important tools for disrupting the Team America opponent early in the game. They will take over if the game reaches a certain point and they start to resolve their relatively more powerful spells, so it's important that we win in an early and convincing fashion. Force of Will is terrible against almost all the fair decks and as such should probably come out, regardless of if we're on the play or on the draw. Submerge, on the other hand, is the game-breaker in the mirror. It allows us to keep our tempo going, Submergeing a potential blocker before combat, while forcing them to re-draw their creature the next turn, all for no mana cost. It can be used as pseudo removal, either in response to their fetch-land activation, or in conjunction with Wasteland, to turn off mana for Tarmogoyf etc. It's especially brutal against Tombstalker, a creature that otherwise tends to beat the entire RUG deck into a pulp.


Patriot (UWR Delver) Even match-up
The third Delver deck is the lightest regarding threats, as it only plays 10, in their standard lists - 4 Delver of Secrets, 4 Stoneforge Mystic, 2 True-Name Nemesis. They also play lots of removal, somewhere between 6 and 8 mainboarded pieces, meaning aside from Nimble Mongoose, our threats won't stick around for long. Stoneforge Mystic needs to be dealt with, since many of our lists contain 0 answers to a 4/4 vigilant lifelinker. Their manabase is about as fragile as the BUG Delver one, they lack Deathrite Shaman but then again won't tap out as much in their own turn. Stoneforge Mystic and the equipment she finds is deceptively mana hungry, however, and most UWR lists doesn't run any basics. Thus, Stifle/Wasteland is effective against this deck too, if slightly less effective on the draw than on the play, as is the case against most any deck.

True-Name Nemesis is a real thorn in the side of RUG, or a concrete pig in the road, depending on your perspective. Pyroblast/Red Elemental Blast is a necessity against the deck, since we have no outs once it is in play. The artifact removal is also very useful, obviously - even though they only have 2-3 artifacts, they are complete must-answers. Umezawa's Jitte or Sword of Fire and Ice makes True-Name Nemesis impossible to race, and Batterskull is a handful in the post-board games too.

We're aggro almost every time due to their lower creature-count and inevitability in Stoneforge Mystic into Batterskull.

OUT: Force of Will, (Daze)
IN: Pyroblast, Ancient Grudge, Destructive Revelry

Force of Will is, again, the worst card in the deck, and is replaced by Pyroblast for a more card-efficient answer to especially True-Name Nemesis. The real danger of the 3/1 Merfolk is when he comes equipped with a Sword or a Jitte, however, which is why we board in both our artifact removals, despite them only having 2-3 artifacts in their deck post-board.


Jund Unfavorable match-up
Jund is a tough nut to crack. They have Deathrite Shaman to mess with our Threshold, Hymn to Tourach to 2-for-1 us, Liliana of the Veil to deal with Nimble Mongoose, Bloodbraid Elf for infinite value, and Abrupt Decay to remove our Tarmogoyfs while we can't touch theirs pre-board. That said, the deck is extremely mana hungry, and would almost always like to curve into a turn 3 or so Bloodbraid Elf, a feat that isn't entirely easy to complete against a deck with Stifles and Wastelands. They almost always have basic lands, so their manabase could be regarded as more stable than BUG's, but they also often carry Grove of the Burnwillows for Punishing Fire, meaning our Delver of Secrets will not live for long.

OUT: Force of Will
IN: Submerge

Again, Force of Will is bad against a deck full of redundancy in their game-plan. Submerge is, again, one of the few ways we can deal with their Tarmogoyfs, and it's generally a boss in the match-up.


Miracles Even match-up
Out of the three popular Delver decks in Legacy today, RUG has probably the best match-up against Miracles, since it combines three important components for the match-up: Shrouded creatures (which UWR has, but BUG lacks), Stifle (which both UWR and BUG lacks) and sideboarded red blasts (which BUG lacks). It doesn't have the Abrupt Decays of BUG, meaning Counterbalance will be a much harder lock, especially considering our lower curve compared to BUG, but otherwise, we match them our outpace them in every other important aspect. To win against Miracles, we need to make sure that we don't over-extend into a 2-for-1 Terminus, which is otherwise their only answer to a resolved Nimble Mongoose.

Stifle can be used on both Terminus' and Entreat the Angels' Miracle triggers, meaning that the Miracle player will draw the card as usual, but won't be allowed to cast it for its Miracle cost. As such, it's an important tool for controlling their answers to our threats as well as one of their win conditions, and thus, should perhaps not be used on the opponent's fetch lands to the same extent as against other opponents. There are exceptions to this, of course, if the opponent has mulliganed for example.

We're aggro, they have all the inevitability with powerful planeswalkers and Entreat the Angels. If they survive to the late game, it's likely that they take over completely.

OUT: Daze, Forked Bolt
IN: Pyroblast, Destructive Revelry, Sulfur Elemental, Vendilion Clique

Some would advocate siding out Lightning Bolt, but Daze also loses a lot of power against Miracles as their primary game plan involves slowing the game down and making land drops, and it's unlikely that we'll be able to force them to play into a Daze in games 2 and 3. Lightning Bolt, on the other hand, can be used to quicken the clock presented by us, or outright end the game on the spot, or it could be aimed at Jace, the Mind Sculptor. Some Miracle players play Stoneforge Mystic in the sideboard, and a few even in the maindeck, meaning Lightning Bolt is even more important since Batterskull can sometimes effectively shut down our deck. Vendilion Clique can steal a Miracle-card with the trigger on the stack (= they can't cast it) and it can also assassinate Jace, the Mind Sculptor from nowhere. The weirdest inclusion above is obviously Sulfur Elemental, but it has Flash and Split Second as well as protection from white, meaning Miracles has to use Terminus to answer it or offer the trade with one of their flash creatures, in some ways similar to how Nimble Mongoose works in the match-up. It's arguably an even better Jace-assassin than Vendilion Clique, since they have to have more mana up to protect a Jace being attacked by Sulfur Elemental than Vendilion Clique.

RUG has access to two cards that are narrow but really gives Miracles the fits: Sylvan Library and Sulfuric Vortex. While the latter is a hard-to-remove clock and shuts down Batterskull-lifegain, the former is a broader good-stuff card which can be sided in against a variety of match-ups where the games might go long and get grindy.

Out of the three Delver decks in Legacy today, RUG, UWR (Patriot) and BUG (Team America), RUG probably has the best match-up against Miracles. Despite getting hit really hard by the countertop softlock, RUG carries lots of tools that are very important in the match-up, namely a reliable Delver of Secrets, Nimble Mongoose, Stifle and Pyroblast post-board. With some practice, RUG can contend well in a Miracles-heavy metagame, and if it's common in yours, consider Sulfuric Vortex and Sylvan Library.

Philipp "Einherjer" Schönegger, Miracles pilot who made it all the way to the top 4 of GP Paris, sheds some light on the match-up in this post: Link.


Stoneblade Even match-up
Stoneblade is one of Legacy's mainstays, and even if it's lost some ground lately, it is still a contender in many metagames. The match-up can become tricky for us for several reasons, depending on the build. The Esper variant that used to play Lingering Souls is thankfully not very popular anymore because Deathrite Shaman makes Lingering Souls quite bad. However, most Stoneblade lists carries Legacy's new bogeyman, True-Name Nemesis. While Lingering Souls was annoying due to its ability to stall our deck for several turns and protecting Planeswalkers, True-Name Nemesis outright kills Nimble Mongoose and can block any Tarmogoyf. To make matters worse, we can't deal with it outside the stack, meaning the card is very problematic. Stoneblade also carries Swords to Plowshares + Snapcaster Mage to deal with all of our creatures bar Nimble Mongoose, Supreme Verdict to deal with the entire board, Engineered Explosives for anything, and some lists are experimenting with Blood Moon, which locks us down almost completely. Stoneforge Mystic grabbing a Batterskull is as problematic as ever, and thus the former must be killed on sight.

However, the deck is quite slow and if they are on three colours, their mana is quite fragile. It's unlikely that we will be able to completely shut them out, since it's very likely that they will fetch basics, but more basics means it's more likely that we're able to lock them out of a colour of spells. Stifle is an all-star against Stoneblade, and it has applications against Stoneforge Mystic, Engineered Explosives, Batterskull and other equipment, Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Snapcaster Mage aside from their fetch lands.

We're aggro, they're control. They have the inevitability of Stoneforge Mystic into Batterskull and Planeswalkers, neither which should resolve uncontested from us. Ideally, they should never hit enough mana to cast their more expensive spells, but it does happen.

OUT: Force of Will
IN: Pyroblast, Ancient Grudge, Artifact Mutation, Destructive Revelry


DeathBlade Even/Unfavorable match-up
DeathBlade is the younger, hotter sister of Stoneblade, incorporating Deathrite Shaman, and often sacrificing its game against unfair decks in leu of beating fair decks more easily. This is often done through adding more creatures like Dark Confidant, moving Force of Will to the sideboard and upping the amount of removal in the maindeck, compared to Stoneblade. The DeathBlade lists are far from as refined as RUG is, and as such, it's hard to know their decklist, even if you know your opponent is on DeathBlade. As with Stoneblade, True-Name Nemesis is to be expected, and it's every bit as difficult to deal with as in Stoneblade. They also play quite a bit of removal, with cards like Swords to Plowshares to deal with Tarmogoyf and Delver of Secrets, and some lists even play Engineered Explosives maindeck, which can deal with Nimble Mongoose. Many lists also play with Liliana of the Veil, at least somewhere in the 75.

Compared to Stoneblade, DeathBlade is a bit more explosive, but since their manabase is Esper like many Stoneblade lists, and most incorporate at least a splash of green for Deathrite Shaman's third ability and Abrupt Decay (often sideboarded), their manabase is often a bit softer than Stoneblades. We're aggro against them every day of the week, and we need to exploit the holes in their manabase in every possible way. Deathrite Shaman is a must-kill, as is Stoneforge Mystic, since Batterskull can't be allowed to hit the table. Their planeswalkers are problematic as well, although not all lists play them. It most often comes down to playskill. Also, beware Rest in Peace from their sideboard, even if they are playing both Deathrite Shaman and Snapcaster Mage. They will probably board it in.

OUT: Force of Will
IN: Pyroblast, Ancient Grudge, Artifact Mutation, Destructive Revelry


Sneak and Show Even match-up
Contrary to RUG, BUG Delver has an unfavorable match-up against Sneak and Show. The reason for this is that a large part of BUG's disruption plan stems from discard, which is by its very definition pro-active. Against decks like Storm, which needs a critical mass of cards in hand to go off - at least most of the time - discard is fine, but against Sneak and Show, a two-card combo deck, discard does nothing to prevent the opponent from just topdecking out of a situation and winning from there. BUG has Abrupt Decay which can only hit Lotus Petal in the match-up, and RUG has Lightning Bolt which can at least go to the head and equals a full turn of attacking with a Nimble Mongoose on threshold or a transformed Delver of Secrets. UWR Delver has probably the best match-up of all, wielding 12 counterspells maindeck in most lists, along with Sword to Plowshares that could in a pinch take care of a Griselbrand, but on the other hand, their threats are more mana-intensive than RUG's, and generally slower. Overall, RUG is well-equipped to take care of Sneak and Show.

That said, Sneak and Show can be a loose cannon in some games and simply nut-draw us out, with a turn one or two Show and Tell with multiple counters to back it up. Most decks would lose to such a start, however, so RUG's in nice company. With 4 Daze, 4 Force of Will, 2+ Spell Pierce and 4 Stifles to disrupt them, and cheap, efficient threats, RUG is probably one of the better decks against Sneak and Show in today's Legacy metagame.

We're both aggro and control, at different stages in the game. Once a clock has hit the table, we need to sit back and keep mana up for countermagic, but tapping out on turn one or two to cast a threat might be necessary.

OUT: Lightning Bolt, Forked Bolt
IN: Flusterstorm, Pyroblast, (Ancient Grudge)

All removal RUG employs falls short of dealing with both Emrakul, the Aeons Torn and Griselbrand, and as such are only possibly aimed at the opponent's head instead and should be sideboarded out first. Flusterstorm and Pyroblast are effective answers to both their engine - Brainstorm, Ponder and Preordain, and their kill conditions - Show and Tell, though neither does anything against Sneak Attack. Stifle can be used to hit their fetch lands and stunt their board development, it hits Sneak Attack since they are often short on red mana, and it can also be used on Emrakul's Annihilator trigger to save RUG's side of the board and swing for the win on the following turn. Some lists make use of Defense Grid, which shuts us out almost completely, so if one suspects or knows that the opponent has Defense Grid and will bring it in, one can next-level them and bring in our artifact removal in anticipation of this.


Storm (ANT, TES) Favorable match-up
Like Sneak and Show, Storm has the ability to completely nut-draw any deck out of the game turns one and two, but unless the opponent keeps the god hand, we have all the tools in the box to fight him, Storm is likely one of our best match-ups, and we're likely one of their worst. Once a proper clock has been established, all of our resources can be used to find more countermagic. Daze is quite easily played around by them, so using it to counter things like Brainstorm or Ponder might be tactically sound. Storm decks always has insurance in some form, primarily discard in the form of Duress, but sometimes also Chant effects which completely shuts off our entire turn of countermagic. Holding drawn lands and countering a Chant effect and trying to shy away the Storm player from going off. There are few things as terrifying in Legacy as a skilled Storm player but among all the decks in Legacy, we're one of the best to go toe-to-toe with them and come out on top.

We're both aggro and control, in a similar way as described above regarding Sneak and Show.

OUT: Forked Bolt
IN: Flusterstorm

Contrary to the Sneak and Show match-up, Pyroblast is quite narrow against most Storm decks, as they mostly have Brainstorm and Ponder as blue spells, while their kill conditions are black and red. Lightning Bolt still holds quite a bit of value against Storm, since they often board in Xantid Swarms, which need to be dealt with and wasting a Force of Will on that creature is less than ideal. Lightning Bolt can also bring their life total under duress, pun intended, and life totals are more important to decks running Ad Nauseam than other combo decks, while it ups our graveyard for threshold. Flusterstorm could potentially completely counter a lethal Tendils of Agony or Empty the Warrens, but unless they have mulliganed heavily and our clock on them is quick, it's much more likely that it will get Duressed, or that the opponent Chants us long before casting either namesake spell. That said, Flusterstorm is a great utility counterspell, able to counter Infernal Tutor or Burning Wish, and they might bring in Pyroblast against us.

Alright, let's Stifle some fetch lands!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Exuberance

Alright, let's Stifle some fetch lands!

---

I played Thresh Can today for a Top8 out of fifty players. List was pretty stock:

//Qty Name
// Lands
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
//\\
// Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets/Insectile Aberration
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
//\\
// Spells
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Forked Bolt
//\\
// Sideboard
2 Rough/Tumble
3 Submerge
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Artifact Mutation
2 Pyroblast
1 Flusterstorm
2 Pithing Needle
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Sulfur Elemental


I woke up early in the morning, then I woke up again and again until I finally kicked myself out of the bed. I thought I'll remain at home, as I was a bit sick, and my family was at wife's parents, so I could have tidy up or mess around or w/e. But then I remebered that I pestered Slosh to lend me a Volcanic, so I rode away in a tractor, as our auto has some trouble with coil.
I met Martin, took the Volc and then we and another Martin chatted about Cold Meat Industry and old school BM and some other cool stuff, until the torunament started quite some time later then it should.


R1, Tom, Elves, unknown
I lost the die roll.
g1, otd, keep7: Tom played two Symbionts, but I had two Forked Bolts and fast Delver, I also coutered his GSZ and his Glimpse bricked. Turn before he lost, he played Chord into Skyshroud Elf and comboed me out with Seedcradle Witch.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RtlhM17YXr.../go+figure.gif
sb: Out some crap (I guess Mongooses and Dazes/Stifles?), in Needles, Cages, Submerges and one-sided WoGs known as Rough.
g2, otp, keep7: I started with Delver, followed by Cage. Rough flipped th Delver, then it washed away face of the earth. I got a FB, too.
sb:trivial changes if any at all.
g3, otd, keep7: Forked Bolt. Goyf. Double Daze. I won.
Win, 1:0.


R2, another non-Slosh Martin, ANT, known
This guy has quite a bad score with me.
g1, otd, keep6: I played Goyf in this game, got hit by Duress and double CT. Unsurprisingly I lost.
sb: out Mongooses and Forked Bolts, in Roughs, REBs, Flusterstorm, Cages.
g2, otp, keep6:I started with Cage, followed by a Delver. Looks like my favourite turn1-2 komboh. Delver flipped FoW, I was hit by CTm, but my hand was full of good and I won.
sb:I took out one Goyf.
g3, otd, keep5:I kept Tarn, Foothill, Volc, Trop and Bolt and was completely Extirpate-proof. I lost after twelve goblins emerged out of nowhere. If only I wasn't a mron, I'd bolt one, bought additional turn and maybe found Rough. Alas, alas...
Loss, 1:1.


R3, Lukáš, WBrew, kinda known
Herp Brew, Hebrew, whatever Brew... I've seen him playing it, but only few turns, so I didn't know exactly what I'm against.
g1, otd, keep6: I played Goyf. My opponent, on the other hand, resolved Tombstalker and double Lingering Souls.
sb: I don't have a clue. I guess some anti-arti tools, Sulfur Elemental, of course. Needles.
g2, otp, keep6: I snared a Hymn, then Delver and Mongoose got there.
sb: No changes?
g3, otd, keep7: Lukáš Extracted my Delver. I got two Mongoose, though, and bolted his Confidant. He resolved another Bob, though, and EOT Enl. tutored Humility. Untap, upkeep, lose four. Play Humility. Creatures are 1/1. My turn, tap them. Exchange Goyf for Bob. EOT Elemental. Tap dudes. GG.
Win, 2:1.
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers...3771&type=card + http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers...4881&type=card = http://www.extra.cz/images/thumbs/13...08x230-fit.jpg


R4, Vojta, DnT, guessed
I was like 99% sure he's riding the white horse.
g1, otp, keep7: I played a 1/2 Goyf, than turn later I Snared the new lolcat, Spirit of the Labyrinth. With Ponderin gy, I rode for 6. Vojta found SFM, SFM found BSKull, but I was too fast and Stifle sealed the deal.
sb: out some crap, mostly Dazes and a 1/1 split of Spell Counters, in anti-arti tools, Roughs, Needles and SE.
g2, otd, keep7: turn1 Vial, turn2 MoR, turn3 Thalia, turn4 Leonid Brezhnev, the Arbiter. Yeah.
sb: switched FoWs and Dazes somehow.
g3, otp, keep7: Vojta had double Leonin Arbiter, but I had enough lands before the second hit. He also got 2x SFM, but the first one failed, because of Leo. I got Delver and double Mongoose, 2/3 of them he exchanged for lolcat and Avenger. I flipped the Delver with Mutation, though, so not even BSK could save him.
Win, 3:1.


Having some time (but not enough for the dinner), I solved an order. It consisted of four Autumn Willows and two Kaysas, but I explained toi the barkeeper that our dog ordered it, and that he made a mistake, that it should have been only one and one green chicks. Luckily they were fine with it.
Then we went outside with Slosh, but there were some 12-14 yo MtG players discussing how they fought fearfully and how they didn't ran away when facing thirty dudes and w/e. So we went into the hole again.


R5, Ivan, DnT, known
Legacy is diverse.
g1, ot?, keep7: I got double Forked Bolt and killed lolcat plus Thalia. Goyf was plowed, but Delver got there.
sb: see above.
g2, otd, keep7: I played Delver. Ivan got Vial, but I had Needle. I also had Bolt for Mom. He StPed my insect, then I FBed lolcat and Thalia. He got another lolcat and I bolted it, then I Grudged Revoker (Grim) to ride the Mongoose. RiP: Stifle. Flickerwsip: Stifle. SE killed the Flicker, then plowed. mongoose got there. Stifle rules.
Win, 4:1.


R6, Tom, Miracles, known
We went for the Chinese soup. It goes well with my (nigh)full-Chinese Canadian.
ID, 4:l:1


Here I am in the playoff. Needless to say, I was pretty tired and exhausted. It takes whole eternity before all the players finish, and then the air in the lair, etc. I like the four-rounders more.


Top8, Martin, bUrg, known
This guy is tit.
g1, otd?, keep6: I Snared Bob, then he Wasted me of myonly land and I lost.
sb:I think I messed it. I want everything, everything! Blests, Submerges, Rough, IDK what else.
g2, otp, keep7:I bolted DRS, Snared Goyf, resolved my own Werebear, Submerged Bob, triple Dazed something, won.
sb:I guess I trimmed Dazes.
g3, otd, keep7:I screwed this, I kept bad hand and wasted one Bolt into Daze. Martin played Goyf, TNN and Grim, then LftLed me out of game while my Goyfs stared at the Wall of Indestructibility. Bah, what a format.
Loss, Top8 finish.

For my efforts I won Horizon Canopy. I got five of them now, two Japanese. Also, it took me eight hours, so without entry fee, I made a nice 15 USD of profit for the whole day. I'd rather be with my gorgeous wife and our amazing children next time.

Pros:
Slosh Martin and both non-Slosh Martins.
Artifact Mutation, Forked Bolt, Stifle and all the Thresh creatures.
Chinese soup (I had two of them) and chatter with Tom.
Judge and the barkeepers, they're pretty good.
ZUZY, of course!

Cons:
Top8 Martin.
TNN.
Slowness of tournament.
Wastelock and mulligans.


I'm selling my Volcanics, so this will be my last tournament for quite some time. It wasn't bad, but in fact it was pretty arduous day.

edit: my deck.

Thanks for the report dogg, and grats on top 8.

I actually may break up with Stifle and Mongoose for the Invitational and go back to my UR Delver roots. Main deck Price of Progress seems like the place to be right now. Don't worry though, I'll keep her phone number and get back with her if UR treats me bad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Exuberance

Thanks for the report dogg, and grats on top 8.

I actually may break up with Stifle and Mongoose for the Invitational and go back to my UR Delver roots. Main deck Price of Progress seems like the place to be right now. Don't worry though, I'll keep her phone number and get back with her if UR treats me bad.

---

With all due respect to UR Delver (unless I'm mistaken, there was one in the Top8, too), I find it amusing how extremely annoying and effective Mongoose is. I won lots of games where any non-shroud creature wouldn't be good enough.

My main concern now is TNN. Yep, it was Life from the Loam that stopped me, not exactly Nemesis, but if there'd be a different creature on board, maybe I'd got through.
I'm concidering going up to three Blasts (and I'd cut Flusterstorm for them, as REBs are good in matchups where you'd use Flusterstorm), but this is hardly a solution, it's just an emergency patch. I don't want to sidegrade into bUrg, esp. after I sold my U/B lands, but I simply don't have any idea how to properly fight the bUrg (and other TNN based) decks with a clean Canadian.

So far I came to the conclusion that we need:
- Bolts for DRS
- Submerges for Goyfs
- REBs for TNNs

But how should the rest of post-board deck look like? I doubt one may cut creatures. FB should be kept in because of DRS, after all, we brought it because of this dude. FoW is a card disadvantage, but it's one of the few card that hit TNN. Daze... Daze is a tempo tool, and we shouldn't cut them, at least on play. Maybe Snare. It stops only Goyfs, and we have three Submerges for them. Pierce is good to protect our big spells, and we need Stifle to not only keep the game in opening stages, but also to not fail to early Waste.
How many DRS they play? Do they even use a set? I think that DRS is the most important creature of any non-white TNN.dec and as such, it needs to be targeted.

Is the following post-sb setting reasonable?

4 Delver of Secrets/Insectile Aberration
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
We need them.

2-4 Daze (mostly for TNN)
2-4 Force of Will (ditto)
2 Spell Pierce (general protection)
4 Lightning Bolt + 1 Forked Bolt (5 bolts against 3-4 DRS)
3 Submerge (Goyfs)
2-3 Pyroblast (TNN and overal protection)

-2 Snare, -1 FB, -1/-2 Daze (otp/otd), -2/-1 FoW (otp/otd).
I'm not sure.


EDIT: Oh, and thanks for an amazing new primer! Also, a question: is it possible to redirect damage from Sulfuric Vortex into enemy planeswalkers?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer

Also, a question: is it possible to redirect damage from Sulfuric Vortex into enemy planeswalkers?

---

Yes it is possible :)

212.9g If noncombat damage would be dealt to a player by a source controlled by an opponent, that opponent may have that source deal that damage to a planeswalker the first player controls instead. This is a redirection effect (see rule 419.6c) and is subject to the normal rules for ordering replacement effects (see rule 419.9). The opponent chooses whether to redirect the damage as the redirection effect is applied.

Thank you also for an updated primer! I really would love to see UGr shine once again as a top tier deck but I'm not seeing it happening without any new cards because the core list of the deck is so tight and new meta decks are playing unfair cards which our colors and mana base can't have an access to.

I also played couple of weeks ago in a little legacy tournament of four rounds. I gathered up a burn full version of UGr;

4 Goyfs
4 Delvers
4 Mongeese

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Daze
4 FoW
4 Stifle
2 Spell Pierce

4 Bolt
4 Chain Lightning

18 Lands

First round was against Team America and I got demolished in the first game. Pretty much standard stuff; turn one shaman into turn two tarmogoyf + all the counters in the world into turn three Liliana. Second game we both mulled down to six but my Delvers got me there with the help of Stifles and Submerges (I submerged also one of my own Delvers in response to Abrupt Decay because no cantrips or other threats in hand). Game three my opponent kept a wasteland full hand but I was a bit lucky with my three land hand by drawing one land more and I didn't have problems in casting spells.

Second round was against ANT TES. I won the first game by double Delver and he was unable to do anything.. I think he didn't hit anything with his cantrips. Game two and three were all the same; in turns one and two he used Gitaxian Probe/Thoughtseize into one or two Cabal Therapies until he comboed. Nothing I could do there... I had hand of FoW, Daze, Stifle and Flusterstorm and he rips it into pieces two times with perfect hand of insane discard and instant combo.

Third round was against Belcher. I thought he was on Dredge and lost first game in turn one. Second game I prepared and mulled down to six (FoW + Daze hand) and won with Delver or two. In third game mulled down to four and no FoW.. he has third time turn one combo and I lost. ''Good Game''.

Fourth round was against some little guy with homebrew mono blue deck. First round I just flipped Delver and Dazed + Bolted everything. In game two I mulled down to five and he did play turn four Dark Ritual into Oona, Queen of Fae :S I was able to double block it with Delvers and three Goyfs ride me to victory.

Overall I was happy with the deck :) I beated the BUG and I know that I have good combo matchup and that double discard with combo backup is rare and for all Belcher players..... well mulliganing into Force of Will is all mathematics ;) Just kidding! I had good gaming night and I enjoyed all the games!

See you all next week with new results!

Edit: Second round was against TES not ANT.

Hey everyone, I just finished a win-a-mox tournament at Just by Chance games in Waterloo and I'll be posting a tournament report later. Got top 4 outta 28 players, so overall I'm pretty happy :)

Here's my list, I'll add the match ups as I get to typing them later:

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Misty Rainforests
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Forked Bolt
2 Spell Snare
1 Spell Pierce
1 Fire // Ice

Sideboard:

2 Submerge
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Krosan Grip
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Pithing Needle
2 Rough // Tumble
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Flusterstorm
1 Vendilion Clique

Hey Guys, thanks to all the reports above me. Today I have played a little Tournament with 31 people and went 4-1 winning a Marsh Flats. This time i played a very aggressive list of my favorite deck in Legacy. Overall i am very happy with the list wich makes the bad matchups like DnT, Team America, Elves better and can raise a resolved TNN very well. The decklist was the whole day very consistent and gave me always the right burnspell i needed. In the next days i will write a full tournament report.


4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
2 Preordain
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
2 Spell Pierce


Sideboard:

2 Price of Progress
2 Submerge
3 Pyroblast
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Pithing Needle
2 Pyroclasm
2 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Spell Snare

Thanks.

It warms my heart to see RUG still doing well after all this time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Exuberance

It warms my heart to see RUG still doing well after all this time.

---

Seconded. I'm really glad that the deck seems to be doing well. And of course, I'm happy that I could make some result after a while.

So, what are people's opinions on my sb ideas against DRS-TNN.dec? Also, is there any way how to improve "Merfolk with eight Nemesi" matchup?
Are any of these cards helpful?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer

So, what are people's opinions on my sb ideas against DRS-TNN.dec? Also, is there any way how to improve "Merfolk with eight Nemesi" matchup? Are any of these cards helpful?

---

I didn't find these cards too atractive :( I think that we are not looking for a hate cards because those usually should turn the tide of the game (flusterstorm > storm, pyroblast > show and tell, cage > graveyard theme decks).

Because the problem with Deathrite Shaman, True-Name Nemesis and Abrupt Decay are that what if our opponent doesn't draw or play them but we draw the hate cards. Decks with these cards have lot of ways to win the game so in my opinion we can't rely on a single card hating and hope it will carry us to victory.

For example Nemesis wrecks creature matchups but is still a decent creature that can kill opponent in combo matchup too when on the other hand Golgari Charm is usually useless in combo matchup. The UGr needs new cards those it can play in main deck.

Nicely done, guys, thanks for the tournament updates!

As for myself, I've got a couple of tournaments planned, 3 or 4 in April alone. Not sure if I'll bring RUG or BUG, bor maybe some mix. We'll see.

The primer will be updated with some match-ups later next week, and this is where I could use the most help. Keep a look out for it, any help is much appreciated. :)

Hi, in the older threat, there were people speaking about upcomming BOM 9 (very open meta with lot of BUG and Miracles expected, also as usual, combo decks). As I will also play there with my Canadian *****, I tried to add some meta answer to my main and sideboard options.

First, I want to fight black (Team America, Jund, and Co.). They have discard, big creatures (Tombstalker) we cant really deal with and efficient removal (Abrupt Decay). Second, I want to fight Miracles. Sulfuric Vortex looks like a very strong answer (with REB and Flusterstorm in backup), also for Batterskull strategy (no life gain) plus kind of burn race.

So here is my proposition, Chain of Vapor or Echoing Truth as an all-round answer, Compost as an answer to mitigate discard effect. Chain of Vapor/Echoing Truth give us time, wich is all we usually need. Echoing Truth really shine against Tokens (Miracles main kill condition, even Jace can be bounced for more turns, but also against Dredge or Batterskull Token). Compost on the other hand is a very narrow answer that need more testing, but it could be very strong.

My 75 :

//Creature (12)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf

//Instant (24)
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
2 Echoing Truth
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
4 Stifle

//Sorcery (6)
2 Forked Bolt
4 Ponder

//Land (18)
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland

SB: 3 Compost
SB: 1 Echoing Truth
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Submerge
SB: 2 Sulfuric Vortex

Let me know what do you think about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by markkugel

First, I want to fight black (Team America, Jund, and Co.). They have discard, big creatures (Tombstalker) we cant really deal with and efficient removal (Abrupt Decay). Second, I want to fight Miracles. Sulfuric Vortex looks like a very strong answer (with REB and Flusterstorm in backup), also for Batterskull strategy (no life gain) plus kind of burn race.

---

Man, the moment I read this I said to myself "I guess he's going to advice Gilded Drake, and really, I'd love to have exactly that card when my WB opponent played Tombstalker!" :smile:
But I guess Echoing Truth might work too. My only concern is that it returns alll the Goyfs, etc. and sometimes this might be disadvantage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by markkugel

So here is my proposition, Chain of Vapor or Echoing Truth as an all-round answer, Compost as an answer to mitigate discard effect. Chain of Vapor/Echoing Truth give us time, wich is all we usually need. Echoing Truth really shine against Tokens (Miracles main kill condition, even Jace can be bounced for more turns, but also against Dredge or Batterskull Token). Compost on the other hand is a very narrow answer that need more testing, but it could be very strong.

---

I've thought about Compost before. My only trouble with the card is that you really want it asap, so that it gives you CA. As such, it needs to be played in multiples and I'm not sure if there's enough space.
Echoing Truth and esp. Chain of Vapor may backfire. I'm not sure if it's reasonable (cmc3 spells need to do a lot to be played), but maybe Wipe Away or Rushing River again?

Kudos for the great primer!

Honestly I don't think RUG will ever die. It would take a lot to kill this kind of condensed power.

I agree. Italiano may have its ups and down but i always be a continous threath.

Enviado desde mi XT890 mediante Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zeph

Hey everyone, I just finished a win-a-mox tournament at Just by Chance games in Waterloo and I'll be posting a tournament report later. Got top 4 outta 28 players, so overall I'm pretty happy :)

Here's my list, I'll add the match ups as I get to typing them later:

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Misty Rainforests
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Forked Bolt
2 Spell Snare
1 Spell Pierce
1 Fire // Ice

Sideboard:

2 Submerge
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Krosan Grip
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Pithing Needle
2 Rough // Tumble
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Flusterstorm
1 Vendilion Clique

---

Alright, after some much needed sleep, I can finally write down my match up analysis from yesterday:

I was originally planning for a very "fair" meta, because when I used to play at JBC weeklys there would be lots of BWx/elf decks (such as dead guy, junk, death and taxes ft. bob, etc) so my choice for my 6 flex spots were 2 forked bolts, 2 snares, and a split between fire // ice and pierce. The forked bolts and fire // ice was to deal with all the pesky x/1s in the format, while fire // ice gave me the option to tap down their creatures to get the final points of damage in, or to pitch to fow. I feel that the 2 snares worked out very well for me because there's just so many 2 drops that are must answer for thresh, and that even though it can be a dead card sometimes, it is well worth it to fit it into the main. I used to run 2 pierce and 1 snare because there was more combo decks in the meta, but I changed it once I saw a lot more fair decks. My sideboard is pretty standard, but if you guys have any questions regarding choices + numbers feel free to ask.

Round One vs Andrew Yu on Affinity Ft. Somber Hoverguard and Blood Scrivener(!!)

Game one he won the die roll, and I had no idea what he was on. I keep a hand of 6 with delver, fetch, volc, fow, stifle, bolt. He plops down an ancient den, 2 ornithopters, 1 memnite, 1 mox opal, and a cranial plating. Dropping 6 cards T1 seems pretty good, so I forced the plating pitching stifle because stifle seems pretty dead in this match up. I play my volc and delver and pass the turn. He draws and plays a somber hoverguard and swings in with his memnite. On my turn I blind flip my delver revealing brainstorm. I bolt his hoverguard and I start going to town with my delver. I play my fetch land and pass the turn. T3 he draws and plays a springleaf drum and blood scrivener, making his hand empty. Seeing that the scrivener will probably win him the game via CA, cracked my fetch for a another volc and casted brainstorm in hoping to find counter magic (daze, fow) or a burn spell in the top 3. Nothing. He eventually drowns me in CA and his board gets too big for me to handle.

Board in: 2x rough, 1 ancient grudge, 1 krosan grip, 1 needle
Board out: 4x stifle, 1 pierce

Game two I'm on the play with a delver, fetch, fetch, daze, grudge, forked bolt. I play a delver and pass. He gets off to a slow start, only playing vault of whispers, 1 memnite and 1 vault skirge. Next turn I don't get the flip but draw a ponder. I forked bolt the memnite and vault skirge (felt goooooood) and swong with my delver. I pondered afterwards and draw another daze while keeping a goose and goyf on top. He draws and plays a seat of the synod, mox opal, plays chalice of the void on 1. I daze it. I keep hitting him with my delver while playing more threats (goose and goyf) and he eventually cant keep up.

Game three he's on the play and unloads his hand with land, mox opal, springleaf drum, orni, memnite, signal pest, and somber hoverguard. I kept a hand with rough, ancient grudge, krosan grip, and no threats. I draw into a goose and I play a land and ponder into forked bolt, another goose and a daze. Next turn he plays chalice at 1, and I let it resolve, and he starts to hit hard: 7 dmg from his creatures. On my turn I play rough to clear off half his board and halve his clock and pass. He plays a cranial plating and attaches it on to his hoverguard and swung, bringing me down to 8. Next turn I grudge his CotV and flashbacks on the plating (value!). He starts losing steam but still comes in for 3, bringing me down to 5. I play 2 geese, and bolt his hoverguard. He starts to chump with his ornithopters that he draws on my geese but can't find another plating (but I still had krosan grip in hand to deal) and I win the match.
1-0, 2-1-0

Round Two vs Troy Warrington on Tezz Affinity

(I didn't know that so many people were on affinity today... I would've packed more grudges in the board....)
I lose the die roll, and he just overruns me with 2 orni, signal pest, and etched champion w/ plating. I didn't have the fow for the champion or plating and my threats came down too late. I died T4 only playing a goose and fork bolting his signal pest. I also mulled to 5, so that might be the reason for the quick loss.

Board in: 2x rough, 1x grudge, 1x grip, 1x needle
Board out: 4x stifle, 1x pierce

Game 2 I keep a good 7 on the play: delver, land, land, daze, ponder, needle, fork bolt. I play my delver and pass. He plays a land, mox opal, signal pest and vault skirge. I daze his skirge. Next turn I blind flip the delver revealing a rough, he doesn't seem too happy to see that card. I swing and then play needly naming plating, next turn he plays a land and master of etherium (4/4) currently and passes. I draw a goyf and I play it down to road block the master and keep hitting him with my delver. He eventually gets a champion online but his clock is too slow compared to my delver and I take game 2. At one point he attempts to play a tezz and CotV on 1 but I forced and snare it. At the end of the game he reveals his hand to me and he had 2 platings in his hand. Rough (pun intended).

Game 3 we both mull to 5, but my hand was land land, goose, goyf, bolt. He's on the play and plays a ancient den and signal pest. I play land and goose. He draws and passes, yikes. I play land bolt his skirge and play another goose. He draws and passes again. I play a goyf and swing with my geese. He draws for the 3rd time and scoops. He had a hand with all threats but he didn't draw any free artifacts and other mana sources.
2-0, 4-2-0

Round Three vs. Eric Lin on Miracles

Eric (the miracles pilot) is a very close friend of mine and we always playtest these two decks against each other, so we both kinda know how this match up is going to turn out. When I see that we're paired, we both just laugh and say how in every tournament we play in, we always get paired one way or another. Since I already know he's on miracles, we start off playing casually.

He wins the die roll and takes game one via 2 angels but my delver gets him down to 8. He has jace back up to seal my fate. He also got countertop online so g1 was pretty brutal. I knew that preboard was my best chance of beating him, so this was pretty depressing for me. Going into post-board I know he has a lot of hate for this deck so I'm just preparing for the worst.

Board in: 2x pyroblast, 1x REB, 1x needle, 1x clique, 1x grip
Board out: 1x pierce, 2x fow, 2x goyf, 1x forked bolt

Game two I land an early delver online and a goose while eric did nothing. He finally plays a clique after my draw step and takes a forked bolt out of my hand. I bolt his clique and continue my onslaught. He tries to play a counterbalance which meets my fow, pitching a daze. I eventually get him down to 4 life but he REBs my delver and resolves a rest in peace, shrinking my goose. I land a grip on the RIP and try to attack with my goose. He flashes in a snapcaster to trade. I get 2 goyfs on the field and they start to grow in size again. He gets off an entreat for 2 angels to go on the defensive. I think he got greedy because he attacked with one angel on one turn and then on my turn I swung with my goyfs for lethal. He blocks one with an angel and another by flashing in a snapcaster, but I force it.

Game three he plays island top. I play a volc and needle naming top. Then he plays land go and I get a delver and goose on the field and start attacking. He keeps playing lands but he rips an engineered explosives! I puts it on 1 and I don't have the counter magic for it, so I get 3 for 1ed. He entreats for 1 angel and I end up wasting 4 burn spells on it. The first two was bolt + forked bolt, which were both met by a flusterstorm. Then I drew into two more bolts in order to take care of the angel, since it was dealing heaps of damage to me. I don't draw into anything else useful while he has RIP on the field. He gets me down to 2 from the angel and flashes in a snapcaster EOT to kill me.
2-1, 5-4-0

Round Four vs Ben Winokur on Team America (BUG Delver)

I used to playtest a lot with Ben (TA pilot) and I knew he was going to be on TA, so this match was going to a war of attrition, but in testing he generally had the edge over cause of the decays and tombstalkers (if unanswered).

He won the die roll, which would've been very advantageous for him but game one he mulls to 4 (ouch), and I kept a hand of delver, goose, land, land, stifle, waste, bolt. He led with a drs and I bolt it. He plays another land and passes. I play a delver and goose. He plays a land and passes. I eventually get my delver to flip and I waste/stifle him out of the game.

Board in: 2x Submerge, 2x Pyroblast, 1x REB
Board out: 4x Dazes, 1x Fire // Ice

Game 2 was much more interesting since we both kept hands of 7, he was able to get 2 goyfs online while I only had a goose and a delver. He swung with his goyfs for lethal, and I had to block with my goose and goyf, and main phase 2 he disfigures my goyf D: . That made me pretty sad.

Board in: 4x Dazes
Board out: 4x Fow

Game 3 was probably the best game of magic I had the entire day. I play a delver and he passes. He plays drs and I daze it. I dont get the blind flip but I do get to waste his land with stifle in my hand. He plays a usea and a delver. I draw into a daze, flipping my delver and swing. Next turn he decays my delver, and flips his and he starts to go on the offensive. I get a goose (with thresh) online and trade with his delver since he stopped swinging (terrible misplay on my part). Eventually, he gets another delver and goyf on the field, while I have pyroblast, bolt and forked bolt in hand but no red sources to cast them. When I was down to 2 life, I rip a foothills and I fetch to blast the delver. I have my own goyf on the field so they're both just staring each other down. The board gets into a stalemate but I get to play 2 delvers, which both of them were disfigured. I eventually get another red source to bolt + forked bolt to deal with his goyf and I start to swing in. He had an unflipped delver on the field for 4 turns and it didn't get to flip. If he did it would've probably won the game. That game was intense and it could've gone to any player. So many people were watching us too lol.
3-1, 7-5-0

Round Five vs Derek Lansche on Elves

I know Derek, and he's very good with elves. We ID the match so that we can draw into top 8, since he's 2nd in standings and I have good breakers. Thank goodness cause the elves MU is terrible for us. Haha
3-1-1, 7-5-1

Top 8 Vs Geroge Large on ANT

I was seating 7th in the top 8 and we were playing with the modified play-draw rule, so he got to choose to be on the play. He plays an island and preordain, so I put him on some type of combo. I kept a very slow hand of goose, goose, land, land, goyf, fow, ponder. Next turn he plays a swamp and duresses me, now I know he's on ANT for sure. I don't force it because he's going to take my fow anyways, which he does. My turn I play a goose and swing, then ponder hoping for some type of counter magic. Nope, All I see are lands so I shuffle away and I draw a land. Expecting the worse, his turn 3 was just him casting brainstorm, then ponder and passing the turn. I eventually get a board with 2 goyfs (3/4), 2 geese (non thresh), and he goes through 12(!!) cantrips but can't seem to find an infernal tutor or Ad Nauseam to go off.

Board in: 2x pyroblast, 1x REB, 1x flusterstorm, 1x clique
Board out: 1x Fire // Ice, 2x forked bolt, 2x stifle

Game 2 I kept a slow hand with goose, land, land, daze, and REB. He plays a land and ponders, then passes. I play my goose and pass. Next turn he plays land and DR, DR, DR into duress, taking REB. Then he AD Nauseams into 4 LEDs, more duresses, tendrils, and petals. He goes through the motions and kills me by eleven-drilsing me.

Game 3 I kept a double delver, land, daze, brainstorm, waste hand on a mull to 6. I play a delver and pass. He plays preordain and I daze it. I don't get the blind flip and play another delver, and waste his usea. He plays another usea and ponders into nothing. On my upkeep I cast brainstorm, hoping there's an instant or sorcery somewhere in the top 3 cause I don't have any in my hand. first card was goyf, second was wasteland... and third was another brainstorm! So lucky that was something to turn on my delvers. Now I have 2 flipped delvers and they start to hit hard. He plays another ponder and passes. I draw the second wasteland to waste his sea and swing for 6 again. He drops an island to brainstorm, and then concedes to me since he couldn't find an infernal tutor. He shows me his hand with a ton of rituals and lotus petals, if he had tutor he'd be able to get past in flames and go off.
4-1-1, 9-6-1

Got to the top 4 to split, getting $137 in store credit, so I just got a bunch of foils for my peasant cube and other goodies like TNN, Tops, etc.

Some final thoughts: Forked bolt did a lot of work again in a lot of my match ups, but I think it's because I was preparing for the meta with a lot of x/1s. Even though it wasn't the creatures that I was expecting, it still ended up being very good (against affinity and BUG). The snares also hit a lot of key targets (CotV), goyfs, CB, etc) and those are pretty game breaking against us so I would strongly recommend trying to fit in some number of snares in your 75. If I were go to again, I think I would take out the pierce because it didn't really do too much for me. Most of the time it just sat in my hand doing nothing other than fodder to pitch to fow. The same applies for fire//ice. I tend to side out that card the most and never found the ice part to be relevant. I didn't get to pitch it because I needed it for the fire part, so I think I would've been better off if I had just played 3 forked bolts instead. The 2 grafdiggers in the board didn't see any play, so many I would've gone down to 1 of them and bump up the count on my artifact/enchantment removal.

Thanks for reading, if you have any questions feel free to ask, I'll try to answer to the best of my abilities.

Ps. I never got to go first via die roll, I'm terrible at rolling dice :(

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Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer

Man, the moment I read this I said to myself "I guess he's going to advice Gilded Drake, and really, I'd love to have exactly that card when my WB opponent played Tombstalker!" :smile:
But I guess Echoing Truth might work too. My only concern is that it returns alll the Goyfs, etc. and sometimes this might be disadvantage.

I've thought about Compost before. My only trouble with the card is that you really want it asap, so that it gives you CA. As such, it needs to be played in multiples and I'm not sure if there's enough space.
Echoing Truth and esp. Chain of Vapor may backfire. I'm not sure if it's reasonable (cmc3 spells need to do a lot to be played), but maybe Wipe Away or Rushing River again?

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Gilded Drake is way to much narrow and conditionnal. I dont advise for it unless Sneak-Show, Reanimator and other Big cheated creature are the rules in your meta :p

As said, Compost at first sight it is a great card against black, but it is really that strong to take 2 or 3 sideboard slot ? I dont know yet, but I'm working on it ;)

Wipe Away were initially put in place of Echoing Truth because of Split Second, but being a 3 cmc 1UU is a big drawback. This is why I moved to Chain of Vapor and Echoing Truth, both do a good job, sometime tricky when cast in answer to Liliana ability or other right timed play :) Returning all instance is exactly why I think Echoing Truth is the way to go : Miracles, Dredge and Batterskull get the hit. Chain of Vapor give a too big edge by allowing our opponent to sacrifice a land and use it back against us (because our opponent usually have way more land than us).

Hello Zeph, thanks for an interesting report, congratulation on your result.
I wouldn't call Spell Pierce a dead weight. The card has its applications, and even though it didn't serve you well, it works against lots of usual cards in Legacy, be it FoW, Liliana, Terminus, Bolt, Swords, Top or any other threat that Snare cannot hit.

Well, markkugel, my main trouble with Echoing Truth is that it may be bad in Goyf stalls, where we don't want to return our own Goyf. I'm cosidering Vapor Snag, but that card is strange, moreover it can't hit Liliana, Chalice, Jace or any other annoying permanent we need to get rid of.
I am very interested in your test results with the aforementioned cards!

Played in a 77 person dual land tournament yesterday, I went 0-2 drop. Played against the mirror in round 1 where I won game 1, lost a close game 2 when he double Bolted me for exactsies the turn before I killed him. Then he crushed me game 3 after countering and killing a Goose Goyf and Delver :(. Round 2 was against Death and Taxes, I won game 1 easily but he won a close game 2 and Wasted me out game 3. In that third game an interesting line came up where he had a Waste and Plains to my Volcanic. On my turn I could either Ponder for a Land or hold up Stifle without advancing my board at all, I went for the Ponder and saw 3 Geese, shuffled, and didn't get another land for like 4 turns and died. I would like opinions on situations like this one, as it turns out I would have lost anyways drawing 3 straight Geese with no way to cast them but it doesn't mean I took the correct line.

I did however win a single elimination side event for a Tropical Island, beating the mirror 2-0, once when he had a triple Delver draw. I also beat Sneak and Show 2-0 and Goblins 2-0 so overall it was a good day going 8-4 in games. Here's the list I ran-

//LANDS-18
4 Wasteland
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
3 Flooded Strand
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Polluted Delta

//CREATURES-12
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf

//COUNTERS-16
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
3 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare

//CANTRIPS-8
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

//REMOVAL-6
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Forked Bolt
1 Dismember

//SIDEBOARD-15
2 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Rough // Tumble
3 Submerge
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Flusterstorm
1 Pithing Needle

The list felt solid all day but the Snare got boarded out a lot and the only time I drew Dismember I was at 5 life vs. the mirror so I never casted it. I think another Forked Bolt in that slot would be better. Pierce was great all day and the 3 Rough turned out to be a great meta call as there was Elves and D&T everywhere, with some Merfolk, Goblins, and Dredge mixed in as well.

Good job, congrats on your new Tropical Island.

I feel like thre's nothing missing. The 2/2 Spell Pierce/Snare split I used is good for an unknown metagame (and as I was to zero 40+ ppl tournaments for well over a year, this was a complete blind call). Three Pierces must work wonders in combo/control field.
I'm not really fond of zero graveyard hate. Also one and only Needle might be wrong, but this depends on your play style. I love to play two, as there are matchups (like DnT, Top.dec or anything with Lili/Deed) where you want it asap. Also, I'm surprised you completely resigned on Cage. I know that three Roughs may be enough, but I'd be afraid that Elves may go crazy if left unchecked for turn or two: GSZ and NO are real cards.
I won't offer you any special opinion on Dismember. It's good when it's good, but other times... it's not good. I guess you needed it as with only one Snare, Goyfs and Germs might sneak into play. I never really liked it, as the life loss hurts and there's not enough versatility other than the fact that it's the only removal playable by Wasteland. (Ok, and it kills Tombstalker...)
How the four Blasts served you? It's quite an overkill, and if it's for TNN and CB, I'd be interested in your boarding plans.

Oh, and on your question: I'd also Ponder. You can't afford sit there doing nothing.

I've actually tried Compost a couple times. Wasn't a fan. I'd rather just Spell Pierce discard spells or Brainstorm the good stuff to the top.

One main deck Echoing Truth seems like a reasonable thing to test. Not liking Chain of Vapor very much. Getting flipped Delvers bounced in return makes me sad.

1st place yesterday (14 man tourney) (4-0) with TAR-RUG-Oh (tarfires and tarmogoyfs!)
won me my last Burning Wish for my belcher deck and some BotG packs (crap expansion!)

MD = 2 pierce, 1 snare, 2 tarfires, 4 goyfs, 3 mongoose, 1 TNN......rest is standard
SB =
1 envelop (snt heavy meta)
1 surgical (dropped grafs as i was expecting no elves in the room)
1 v.cliq (interchangeable with sulfur but saw no white deck inside
3 rebs
1 pierce
2 submerges
1 grudge
1 revelry
2 roughs
1 snare
1 needle
....i'll change this still, this is the fun part in RUG! constructing weapons in the sb's....

round 1 (2-0 vs monogreen stompy)
turn 1 he dropped a nettle sentinel, and blamed myself why did i bench those forked bolts......well upon dropping a rancor next turn, i knew it was a different deck...
goyfs are wall vs this deck, and with delvers flying everywhere, it was an easy victory...

round 2 (2-0 vs ANT)
managed to stifle his fetches, wasted brass and any land that hits the floor, so my pierce and daze are of more value when i needed to counter..
benched goose and goyfs/delver finished him off 2 games...

round 3 (2-1 vs UWR Patriot)
conceded G1, opponent down to 5 but managed to resolve a batterskull in which i have no answer.... now im gonna call my destroyers...

G2 was an exciting race, he never drew RIP and goyfs came a bit late to do the work, but facing 2 delvers, i was running out of life...fortunately my opponent misplayed by attacking a flipped and an unflipped insect...i traded my unflipped delver to the unflipped one..he should have waited for it to flip next turn... few more turns 2 goyfs would seal the deal so his lone delver stayed home and blocked, he drew a bolt and im down to 1 but that was it...

G3 mulled to 6, kept 2 lands, goose, goose, goyf, goyf.....was a grindy match once again as he never drew counters to my burn, killing every delver and sfm that landed, he managed to resolve an RIP, gladly i wasnt able to cast goyfs yet and with a brainstorm, i flushed em out, instead drawing more answers....reb's his tnn, and on 4 lands with a misty he cracked it, i knew it was batterskull...i stifle, he countered, he fowd making him down to 1 that turn, but i still have another stifle on hand and im into the finals! last cards in my hand are grudge, tarfire, stifle, stifle.....sick!


finals vs fellow teamate kitz (2-1 monoU omnitell)
lost g1 where i kept a good hand with lots of cantrips, but never drew answers to SHOW....
g2 boarded out all my stifles as i didnt see any fetches, bolts and delvers made a fast clock.....this is when i saw 2 mistyRF that he cracked : (
g3 out bolts, back in 4 stifles......at just 2 lands i was able to counter 4 times...i have 2 delvers opening hand but didnt bother to drop em and play a more conservative approach on this one...when he's bout to go off he casted SHOW, i enveloped, he pierced (1 mana available) i pierced back (no more manas for me), he swansonged, i dazed (not targetting swansong of course!) he fowed, i dazed once more!...2 more turns and my delvers ravaged the skies with a new friend beside them...a swan song token!

amazing day it is! careful planning and tight plays makes for a successful run that very day. til then!

Congratulations Poxy! Well played.
The only thing that surprises me is that you didn't even try to play at least one Delver, but knowing how hard SnT might be, and reading the part that confirms it, I guess it was a right call, esp. when you were on the draw. Btw, are the Bolts necessary? I'd never side out Stifle against any blue deck, because even if I saw no fetches g1, I'd expect the opponent to play at least few of them just because of Brainstorm. (Merfolk are a different animal, yet that's where you need to protect your lands.) Also, it feeds FoW. But then again every Bolt may be a small Time Walk. IDK.

So I've been a bit MIA lately because of 7 day work week something I'm more than glad to be done with. Now on to further matters of importance I did take RUG delver to SCG Seattle (or SCG Tacoma as a lot of locals think of it) and piloted the deck to a meager 5/4. The only thing that really bugged me was out of my eight rounds I only got to be on the play once. I lost 7 die rolls all calling high roll might need to switch to even/odd for a while or new dice hahaha :eek: Anyways on to the actual report.

Main Deck
54 core RUG
4 chain lightning
2 spell pierce

Sideboard
3 submerge
3 pyroblast
2 price of progress
2 rough and tumble
1 vendilion clique
1 grafdigger's cage
1 ancient grudge
1 flusterstorm
1 sulfur elemental


Round 1 Huey Jensen Sneak Attack 2/1
By far the highlight of the day. Game 1 I was on the draw and kept an ok hand against fair and midrange decks, but not so good against combo. He quickly resolved a turn 2 emrakul and we moved to game 2. Game 2 I played conservatively the first few turns followed by I think a turn 3 tarmogoyf. Then another tarmogoyf found it's way onto the field and that was that. Game 3 I had the solid single delver hand with all the counter magic just what we want to see.

Round 2 UW Miracles 2/0
Usually a very interesting match up that people have different views about being 50/50 or worse. Game 1 I road a goose to victory or at least within bolt range. Once he was in bolt range I had 3 bolts in hand fired the first two off which met force and counterspell finally the third made it hahaha. Game 2 was really funny. I had another goose out turn 1 and spent turns 2 - 3 sculpting my hand with brainstorm and ponder. Finally on his turn 5 he goes for a terminus with UUU fetch up I sit their with stifles in hand. One stifle goes for the terminus and gets hit by a counterspell. The second goes for the fetch when he tries to resolve the spell and is met with a force finally the third puts his miserable fetch out of it's misery and indirectly his terminus as well. Goose continued the beat down path and was joined by Goyf for the win.

Round 3 Omnitell 2/1 (table 1 a first for me :cool:)
Game one I had a goose win me the game again or at least carry me halfway there. The goose got him to 11 and then I dropped a goyf and a delver because I was running of countermagic. Luckily I made it another turn and had the bolt for a total 11 point swing. Game 2 was much worse I kept an ok hand, but lost fairly fast with him having force and pact of negation as countermagic back up sometimes they just have it. Game 3 I had a single delver hand again something that is just so appealing. On the other hand a defense grid made it much less appealing. I slowly beat him over the head with the delver and quickly added a tarmogoyf at which point he cunning wished and took a long time eventually settling on echoing truth. This led me to think he was still looking for at least one combo piece giving me hope. He passed I swung then he used echoing truth on the goyf which I was ok with since second main phase a vendilion clique landed the table. His hand revealed Show & Tell, Enter the infinite, force of will, and show and tell quickly was sent to the bottom of the library. Next turn vendilion clique and delver swung for the fences for the win. We talked after the match and his other option was to cunning wish for intuition which would get him there if he top decked another land or if I didn't have another threat. It was definitely and interesting decision tree that was also more complex by him losing if I had bolt :rolleyes:

Round 4 Punishing Jund 1/2 :frown:
The first bad match up of the day, but still not horrible. Game 1 he had a solid turn one thoughseize after my mulligan to six. I played a land and passed or something like that. This is bad but not horrible the back breaking card was hymn hitting both my fetch and brainstorm in hand *sigh*. That left me with Force and an unplayable goose. Game 2 was much better I had a goose lead me to victory with stifles and wastelands flying everywhere just the type of game I want against jund. Game 3 he had a really good start with deathrite, goyf and Lilyana with a hymn in there somewhere as well. I was on the back peddle too much and the crucial point where I could submerge goyf with a daze to counter it he had the thoughtsieze and picked daze. He didn't know I had a waste and submerge on top of my deck from ponder making it a live counterspell.

Round 5 BUG Delver Tempo (stifles) 2/1
Game 1 he won with a goyf + tombstalker combo something RUG has no way to come back from. In addition he also had an early stifle which caught me off guard, but I should have realized when he fetched for trop and played deathrite. Game 2 with me on the play I had a double wasteland and stifle hand which he scooped to shortly after turn 3 or 4 I think. Game 3 was much closer and price of progress actually won me it dealing 4 damage to the head after a slew of delver beats.

Round 6 Imperial Painter 0/2
This is one of the few combo decks I don't want to face. My opponent was a friend from my local game store and we both knew each others deck and the match up. This was also the only match up where chain lightning's chance of being thrown back at me became relevant. Game one he had a blood moon followed by an ensnaring bridge which sealed the deal. Game 2 he ate away at my counterspells with multiple early blood moons and finally got his comb off. Overall this match up just seems so bad they have 6 main deck blood moons, 6 force of will (8 after sb), some number of ensnaring bridges and their actual combo on top of that:frown:.

Round 7 Blast Canon, Big Red, etc 0/2
He was on the play and led with sandstone needle. This immediately screamed through the breach or other shenanigans so I played conservatively. He had a turn 2 lotus petal + seething song into sneak attack playing around my spell pierce I left up. After that he got a griselbrand into play drew 21 cards and that was that. Game 2 he just had the nuts with something like 4 must answer spells that he just fired turn after turn and wore me down with.

Round 8 Belcher 2/0
By far the easiest match up all day. Game 1 I naturally had the force in my opener. Game 2 my opener was something along the lines of force, daze, stifle, vendilion clique, brainstorm, ponder and tropical island. The best part was when he used gitaxian probe and saw my hand at which point he was seriously disappointed hahaha.

Round 9 manaless dredge 0/2
At this point I was happy I thought well 5/3 I'm still in prize contention to make my money back. When I sat down and realized what I was playing against after watching him beat one of my other friends my hopes were gone. Once again manaless dredge reared it's ugly face my way :mad: . Game 1 he had griselbrand turn 3 after a cabal therapy revealing nothing relevant seeing as he was able to dread return twice via multiple zombies from narcomoeba and ichorid. Game 2 was pretty much the same thing with 3 therapies able to rip my graffdiger's cage from my hand that I found turn 2. He dredged exactly into the third therapy he needed to get through my daze and force. After playing against this deck at two different tournaments instead of facing it I've decided to just work on avoiding the x/3 bracket all together. Anything short of graffdigger's cage and we lose to this deck seeing as they can slowly amass an army of zombies and or combo off.

Overall the deck performed great to at least what I think a 5/2 finish as manaless dredge loses to so many other decks in the format it shouldn't be around and imperial painter being more of a fringe deck. Don't get me wrong though imperial painter is really competitive just not something you see everyday I mean who really wants to play mono red in legacy that's just boring. The eight bolt configuration was great it made my miracles match up a lot easier and the bug delver (tempo) easier as well. As for the sideboard I think this eight bolt plan wants something more like 2 destructive revelry in the sideboard. Aside from doing another 2 damage revelry also gives us more outs to counterbalance and allows for an out to rest in peace. We already have eight bolts main so I don't think we need 2 roughs probably 1 one would suffice. Against elves we have submerges, merfolk pyroblasts. The only match up I think we need two roughs against is d&T, but we also have sulfur elemental. By having something like 8 - 11 spot removal and 1 board wipe all those match ups seem favorable.
On another note 6 of the people from my local gamestore made top 8 which made me happy (and makes me feel a bit better about only going 3/1 every other week if that). It definitely seems like the eight bolt plan is worth exploring more I mean it allows for some serious blow outs by just having another 3 or 6 points of burn to the face. Eight bolts also makes it nearly impossible for a deathrite to make it pass turn 1 and more removal for other pesky creatures. Anyways the next big tournament is a ptq side event coming up in three weeks I think I'll play this just with a slightly different sideboard probably with destructive revelry.

Hello Contract Killer, thanks for the report!

It surprises me how few slots people devote to the grave/Elves combined hate. After I've had my butt delivered back to me some two months ago - round1 Dredge, round2 Elves -, I decided I'll never leave my place without some protection. Nice thing is that Cage works against one DTB (Elves), one very annoying strategy (grave decks) and it's a good splash hate against PiF based combo.

Interesting how the 8-Lightning plan worked for you. With Delver being already fragile enough, I still can't force myself to try it. Also, I had lots and lots of success with Forked Bolt, I'd love to up the count somehow to three of them. Other than Serra Avenger, there isn't any x/3 creature I'd know and care about, and as long as I use my burn mostly as removal, I think I'll stay away from Chain Lightning.

Primer in OP updated with a section about inevitability and roles. More to come, stay tuned!

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Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer

The only thing that surprises me is that you didn't even try to play at least one Delver, but knowing how hard SnT might be, and reading the part that confirms it, I guess it was a right call, esp. when you were on the draw. Btw, are the Bolts necessary? I'd never side out Stifle against any blue deck, because even if I saw no fetches g1, I'd expect the opponent to play at least few of them just because of Brainstorm. (Merfolk are a different animal, yet that's where you need to protect your lands.) Also, it feeds FoW. But then again every Bolt may be a small Time Walk. IDK.

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Thanks my friend, yup being on the draw without any daze that moment, i can already see himself go offturn two, that,s why i shifted to a more consrvative approach..patience did pay off..i also thought of havin them bolts would increase my clock, knowing he wasnt fetching anything...and did put back the necessary adjustments come final game by goin back to stifles..

@Bed Decks

It's not quite the same as running a third FB in the main, but, as an option, there are a number of lists on tcdecks that placed pretty high that run 1-2 FB main and a remaining 1-3 FB in the side. The 6 flex spots tend eschew Spell Snare for a mixture of Spell Pierce, Gitaxian Probe, and Forked Bolt in these lists.

Maybe 2 Spell Pierce, 1 Spell Snare, 3 Forked Bolt would work?

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Originally Posted by carefulmug

@Bed Decks
Maybe 2 Spell Pierce, 1 Spell Snare, 3 Forked Bolt would work?

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my burn list last sunday was 4 bolts / 2 tarfires / 1 f/ice with 2 pierce/1 snare... AND IT WORKED!
im a real fan of forked bolts, but my tweak was purely a meta call... we have scouted well that day, that there were no green or white armies present..
im also liking the lone snare MD and 1 more copy in the side lately.... i tried Bedecks list and put back those snares to battle burning wish, infernals, grids... again, the meta was scouted as unfair... yet 2 junks appeared (fair) (glad i didnt face any) so snare was a good inclusion that very day.

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Originally Posted by HammafistRoob

In that third game an interesting line came up where he had a Waste and Plains to my Volcanic. On my turn I could either Ponder for a Land or hold up Stifle without advancing my board at all, I went for the Ponder and saw 3 Geese, shuffled, and didn't get another land for like 4 turns and died. I would like opinions on situations like this one, as it turns out I would have lost anyways drawing 3 straight Geese with no way to cast them but it doesn't mean I took the correct line.

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Personally I think you took the correct line. It's a sketchy situation at best one of those damned if you damned if you don't. D&T has the luxury of also possibly having rishadan port which makes leaving up stifle bad. You can risk doing nothing while giving them time to advance their board state. They have inevitability in destroying your land the best thing you can do is find more land and try to progress your board state. Same thing against something like jund if you pass they could have some discard which would also make stifle bad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer

Interesting how the 8-Lightning plan worked for you. With Delver being already fragile enough, I still can't force myself to try it. Also, I had lots and lots of success with Forked Bolt, I'd love to up the count somehow to three of them. Other than Serra Avenger, there isn't any x/3 creature I'd know and care about, and as long as I use my burn mostly as removal, I think I'll stay away from Chain Lightning.

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See forked bolt has never done anything for me that chain lightning couldn't do. The one damage it shoots to the head is very marginal and I've never gotten a two for one with it. Elves always has a symbiote out it seems like and I only net that while the other x/1 is bounced. Death & Taxes I always want to fire it off against their turn 1 mother and after that the other creatures they play sfm, thalia, flickerwisp etc are all going to be coming one at a time. The first two you really don't want to let them untap with and the third should be killed to let the skies be clear for our delvers. Chain lightning on the other hand gives us more reach for the fair match ups that we're not favored in. We all agree that game one against combo isn't nearly as important as game one against fair decks. Combo is so much easier for us to beat and chain lightnings make the other fair match ups so much better by having increased reach.

As for beating TNN I seriously think our best bet it to just go over the top with bolts. In the sideboard we have tools in price of progress and pyroblast. We are the fastest tempo deck and can out race UWR delver and BUG delver why not just jam price? Both of those decks play TNN and both extend consistently to 3 - 5 lands leading to an easy 6 - 10 damage we can aim at their head.

@ Contract Killer: Yes, I do unerstand your reasoning. It's just that I had lots of two-for-ones during my 6+1 rounds and on several occasions I got Thalia AND Spirit of Labyrinth with one Forked Bolt. Guess what... that was sweet! :smile:
I like the PoP in sb. Really good tool how to outrace TNN.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer

@ Contract Killer: Yes, I do unerstand your reasoning. It's just that I had lots of two-for-ones during my 6+1 rounds and on several occasions I got Thalia AND Spirit of Labyrinth with one Forked Bolt. Guess what... that was sweet! :smile:
I like the PoP in sb. Really good tool how to outrace TNN.

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Ok that makes sense maybe I'm just too conservative with the card when I see thalia drop. I just always want to kill thalia on sight to free up mana down the road for cantrips and the occasional counter.

So this isn't RUG delver related exactly, but anybody else baffled by the scg LA top 8? I mean at least three decks in there manaless dredge :mad:, belcher :confused: and Food chain bug :really: don't really seem top8 material. So food chain bug I can kind of get I've played against it and it's literally like playing against shardless bug but instead of planeswalkers they just vomit out tons of creatures. I just don't get how did manaless dredge dodge rest in peace and how did belcher dodge Force? There's also the chance that people just weren't playing good decks lols

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Contract Killer

So this isn't RUG delver related exactly, but anybody else baffled by the scg LA top 8? I mean at least three decks in there manaless dredge :mad:, belcher :confused: and Food chain bug :really: don't really seem top8 material. So food chain bug I can kind of get I've played against it and it's literally like playing against shardless bug but instead of planeswalkers they just vomit out tons of creatures. I just don't get how did manaless dredge dodge rest in peace and how did belcher dodge Force? There's also the chance that people just weren't playing good decks lols

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I think the stream, with mono-U Weenies was pretty hilarious.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Contract Killer

Ok that makes sense maybe I'm just too conservative with the card when I see thalia drop. I just always want to kill thalia on sight to free up mana down the road for cantrips and the occasional counter.

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Depends. Soemtimes I don't really care of her (when I have battlefield and grip full of lands) sometimes she came after the SotL, other times I was light on removal, so I saved it to 2-for-1 him, there were games where I had double Goyf out and a Grudge in hand, so a 2/1 dude din't matter, etc.
Otoh, in early game I always burn her at sight, as she creates very uncofortable environment.

On the Top8: I lack words.