[Deck] Burn

[Curby]

The main problem with Searing Blaze is that it's only good if you can guarantee Landfall, and that just about requires that you weaken your landbase with fetches. If you're splashing anyway, then it's a possibility.

[CorpT]

The main problem with Searing Blaze is that it's only good if you can guarantee Landfall, and that just about requires that you weaken your landbase with fetches. If you're splashing anyway, then it's a possibility.

That's not the problem with Searing Blaze. Searing Blaze is perfectly fine as a sorcery, and adding fetches doesn't weaken your mana base. The problem with Searing Blaze is that having a dead card in your hand is just about the worst thing in the world. Price of Progress makes the cut because it is so backbreaking against so many decks - either by burning them out, or by forcing them to fetch basics and very few decks play only basics. Against creatures, Searing Blaze feels extremely unfair. 6 damage for 2 mana is nothing to scoff at. But the fact that you can't even cast it unless they have a creature is a huge issue. At least with Price, you can usually hit them for 2 in the worst case.

[Plague Sliver]

Looking for some feedback on my 75. Especially some of the sideboard slots.

Cards I tried and cut
- Lavamancer/fetches package: removal magnet. At least Guide strikes fast and Keldon/Hellspark are more pseudo-burn spells than creatures.
- Kiln Field: found it lacking. Tapping out turn 2 to play the Fiend only to have it exiled is a huge tempo loss.
- Searing Blaze: too conditional.

19x Mountain

4x Hellspark Elemental
4x Goblin Guide
4x Keldon Marauders

4x Price of Progress
4x Fireblast
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Chain Lightning
4x Magma Jet
4x Lava Spike
3x Rift Bolt
2x Pyrostatic Pillar

Sideboard:

4x Vexing Shusher
4x Smash to Smithereens
3x Sulfuric Vortex
4x Tormod's Crypt

My meta has Goblins, Countertop, Merfolk, Stax, Ichorid, Lands, Belcher, TES.

- I'll probably give up the combo matchups, unless I really want to play 4 Mindbreak Traps.
- Struggling to think of a viable substitute for 3x Sulfuric Vortex. Any suggestions?
- Thought about running Blood Moon Magus but it's too hard to resolve him vs. any permission deck unless Shusher goes in, and it's going away from what this deck tries to be, which is fast kill. A bit off the curve.

[Pastorofmuppets]

List

I found that 2 Simian Spirit Guide and some Pyrostatic Pillar go a long way against combo.

[Curby]

@CorpT: I still think landfall's a problem with Searing Blaze. You're right in saying that requiring a creature is also a problem though, even though this is Legacy and that's not generally too hard to find. I guess it's just too conditional overall. =)

[martyr]

Searing Blaze is remarkable when it works, but it does seem to have only one real benefit over Flamebreak but a lot of hoops you have to jump through to take advantage of it. Ok, two, but you losing 3 life after wiping much of your opponent's board isn't a massive problem. Flamebreak isn't entirely dead in the main against non-creature decks, whereas Blaze is.

I'd totally missed Smash to Smithereens, it's a good idea for the sideboard.

I've been looking around for some not too situational, non-creature cards to give the deck a bit of reach.
Copper Tablet
Psychogenic Probe
Scalding Tongs
Cursed Scroll
Ankh of Mishra
Isochron Scepter

That's what I can come up with, not sure which are ideal, if any. Scroll, Probe, Scalding Tongs, Ankh, and Scepter all require you to play differently, though, or have little effect on some opponents. Copper Tablet seems piddly, though, and it takes six turns to even match most of the rest of your deck's damage to mana ratio, hurting you the whole time.

[bigbear102]

Searing Blaze is not a card to put in the MD. It is a sub par Lava Dart against some decks, and sometimes Incinerate just isn't that good (see a 3/4 Goyf, Rhox War Monk, Tombstalker, etc) when you have to play it on your turn, or save a fetch to make it at least playable. Against Zoo, it is a house.

As far as people not playing sweepers, good luck. I can't imagine playing in such a diverse metagame without a pseudo-reset button. There have been several times that bad aggro decks were going to race me because of bad draws, only to be completely devastated by a sweeper wiping their board. Too many people rely on the deck's goldfish speed. In reality, the deck just fizzles a decent amount of the time, and if you can't buy yourself a couple of extra turns, you will lose much more often than you would expect, even against slower decks.

@Plaguesliver: Why are you playing 2x Pyrostatic Pillar MD? You don't even have the other 2 in the board to make it decent against combo. You say you will probably just give up the combo matches, but you already have. 2x Pillar does not even come close to a decent plan. Cut the Pillars.

As for replacing the Vortex, it depends on what you want to fight with it. My main problem is Jitte, and you already have Smash.

SSG is an interesting idea, but as far as I'm concerned combo isn't popular enough to dedicate enough slots.

@martyr: I agree with you about Flamebreak and Blaze, but as far as the list of cards to try, throw them out. Cursed Scroll is the only possibly viable option, and even then it's just not that great. If you're running mono-red I always throw in 2x Barbarian Ring. They don't slow you down, and will give you the oomph you need in the long game a lot of times. A lot of people claim you can't run them without fetches, but I have done it several times and not had any problems. I suppose running them alongside Hellspark Elementals might be an issue, but I think it's still better than all of the artifacts that you suggested.

[Iranon]

@ martyr: The cards you listed don't really help plan A (kill them with fire on turn 3-4). Ankh is the one with highest potential rewards, but it's also too situational. Fighting the deck's tendency to burn out on you with a card that's a horrid topdeck seems self-defeating; it would also require a way to play it on turn 1 for full effects and I don't think fast mana is the way to go.

Sulfuric Vortex is probably a better option, and I'm not fond of that card either. One card I do like, however, is Pulse of the Forge. 4-for-3 is rather poor, but it's still good enough to remain relevant for plan A
It gives you a reusable damage source if you were forced to pick off problem creatures or ate a minor Tendrils early on. It gives you the functionality you're looking for most of the time, sacrificing rather little (less than 1 point of damage, because we'd probably play an unconditional 5-for-3).

[urdjur]

I can't get behind the "12 creatures trend" in Burn, though I realize the need for some reusable damage sources. Pulse of the Forge will only rarely be reusable thoguh, as we're ahead in the damage race almost all of the time. The only ones I think are worth it are:

*Sulfuric Vortex: The strongest one IMO. Downside is that it's vulnerable to enchantment removal and symmetrical. Also pretty bad in multiples, and slow as a top deck.
*Goblin Guide: Not very dependable and bad as a top deck. Not convinced that this is better than Lava Spike on average. The times it deals 6 damage must be weighed against the times it deals 0.
*Hellspark Elemental: Slightly easier to get through than the Guide, but only useable twice. 4 mana for potentially 6 damage is about on par with what you can expect from Sulfuric Vortex. Vulnerable to instant speed exiling effects (StP/PtE), but otherwise fairly resilient.
*Barbarian Ring: Only usable once but can give that extra reach. Only problem is that it doesn't really help mana flood, since an excess of mountains means you won't reach threshold. Easier to remedy this if you play Shard Volley alongside Fireblast and no anti-synergistic cards like Vortex/Hellspark.
*Shivan Gorge: An alternative to Barbarian Ring that many scoff at prematurely. It helps the mana flood issue a lot more than Ring - in fact, it's enabled by mana flood rather than disabled by it. Let's you play mini Cursed Scroll when your hand is empty while waiting for killer top decks. Not good with Flamebreak though, and of course vulnerable to Wasteland.

[martyr]

I guess the only real way to get reach is to either take some large hits in life or by pushing your fundamental turn back pretty far on average. Barbarian Ring is a good call.

The problem with running fewer creatures is generally that if you have too many, you're too slow, and if you have too few, your opponent's removal becomes relevant and you risk your hands being dead depending on what you draw.

[Iranon]

Pulse of the Forge may not be reusable most of the time... but from my experience it's usually reusable when we need it to be so:

Normally, we have the dilemma that we run literally dozens of potential anti-creature spells but don't want to use them as such because if we do so we tend to run out of steam first. The ability to hit them for 4 nonsymetrical damage per turn when behind allows us to play and win as Mono-Red Control.
Pulse may or may not allow us to recover from enemy lifegain (which normally pushes our clock back by a turn per 2 life gained)... but it deserves mention for being useful after the fact. We end up with spare mana in a game that goes longer than planned, so the 3 mana per turn is no problem either.

Burn decks need to be tight and make as few investments as possible to address their shortcomings, rather than run something that addresses our concern well but doesn't contribute much to plan A. Smash to Smithereens over artifact removal that's actually good as such is a perfect example.
Pulse is a moderately good answer that you don't even need at the time a normally game-deciding SNAFU occurs, that is also a good topdeck and that can feature in the standard plan of 'deal 20ish damage with 7ish spells and 9ish mana over 4ish turns'.

[コーヒー]

For those of you in favor of sweepers, do you ever find it hard to actually get to 3 mana? I've been testing 3 flamebreak main to burn away Goblins particularly, but on average im dead before i have enough mana. I run 19 land, which seems to be pretty average.

[urdjur]

Do you also run Magma Jet? Because a 2-land hand with Magma Jet almost guarantees a timely third land drop if that's what you really need. I also assume you're mulliganing your 1-land hands.

A straight 60 card deck without Jet or other sneaky stuff and 20 lands makes its t3 land drop about 50% of the time. Running 3-4 sweepers gives you another roughly 50% chance of finding one come turn 3. So a turn 3 sweep will be possible about 25% of the time (more with Magma Jet) against Goblins (it's practically an auto-win when you pull it off, unless they have Jitte).

[コーヒー]

I'm running only 2 Jet's right now. It just seems weak at what it does (2 mana for 2 damage). But maybe i should up the count to four and test it. And also, the only 1 land hands i'm keeping have Goblin guide(s).

[Iranon]

2 Magma Jets feels off. None in a straightforward deck (our spells are mostly interchangeable anyway, I want efficiency), 4 in a build with a decent number of sweepers/high-end reusable damage sources or other tricks (dig for the right card or the mana to cast it).

Cave-In is also an option, no mana issues there... and the inefficiency may be less crippling than expected because you can get away with less land and no Jets. More suited to Not-Quite-Sligh lists though.

[コーヒー]

Cave-in seems so risky in burn. We already have no card advantage, and this just puts us into topdeck mode faster. But it still seems worth testing, for reasons Iranon previously stated. Im trying to make a build without Jet, with a focus on more powerful cards.

[pocari79]

Mini-tournament report. This past Saturday, I split for 1st with the following deck

12x Mountain
4x Wooded Foothills
2x Scalding Tarn
1x Barbarian Ring

4x Goblin Guide
3x Hellspark Elemental
2x Grim Lavamancer

4x Lightning Bolt
4x Chain Lightning
4x Rift Bolt
4x Lava Spike
4x Magma Jet
3x Incinerate
3x Price of Progress
3x Fireblast
3x Sulfuric Vortex

Sideboard
3x Flamebreak
3x Searing Blaze
3x Smash to Smithereens
3x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
3x Sirocco

About the card choices. Only 2 lavamancers because I felt they're really horrible in multiples and once I get one on the table, merfolk and goblins might as well just concede. Also, barbarian ring and lavamancers might seem to be unsynergistic but there's only 1 ring and 2 lavamancers. Usually i don't get both the ring and lavamancer in play at the same time so i've never been burned by that.

I changed the volcanic fallout into flamebreaks and haven't looked back. the difference between 2 and 3 damage is pretty much like life and death against zoo and merfolk. Searing Blazes are a given since I play fetchlands and I feel that 6 fetchlands support the searing blazes fine. I used to play 3 Krosan Grips and had the 1 Taiga to support it and I ended up not liking it much since even one wasteland means that I would only be able to use the grip once and then my taiga is stripped which will leave me with 2 dead grips in my deck. I figured if anybody was playing some enchantment hate like chill, leyline of sanctity, COP: red or enchantress, i might as well just fold.

The Boseiju and Sirocco are my answers to countertop/landstill type decks. Usually those decks don't play wastelands or threats do the 2 life won't matter much.

There were 12 people at this tournament so 4 rounds of swiss. On to the report:

Round 1 - Merfolk (16 lord version) W 2-0

I feel that the burn deck is actually less afraid of the 16 lord version as there's no standstills and no stifles/spell pierces at all. Playing around Daze and cursecatcher isn't that difficult so there's only Force of Wills to handle the spells. both games ended quick as he didn't draw any relevant counterspells. I boarded in the 3 flamebreaks, searing blazes and smash to smithereens and took out the 3 sulfuric vortex, 4 lava spike and 2 hellspark elementals.

Round 2 - Goblins W 2-0

I find that whoever goes first in this matchup wins more often than not and if goblins gets the double lackey or a draw where he gets a drop every turn for the first 3 turns, you're going to have to bolt his guys instead of him which slows you down dramatically while he can get lucky with a ringleader and refill his hand. Was a bit lucky in this match that he didn't have the perfect curve while I did and I was able to deal with each of his creatures with searing blaze and flamebreaks. I boarded in 3 flamebreaks, searing blazes and smash to smithereens and took out the 3 sulfuric vortex, price of progress and 3 lava spikes

Round 3 - B/G survival Madness L 0-2

I never saw this type of survival madness before but i think it's probably better than the U/G or the W/G version since it's way more proactive with cabal therapies, shriekmaws and thoughtseizes plus it has some explosive starts.

Game 1 he did this on turn 1. Bayou, putrid imp, discard vengevine, discard vengevine, discard rootwalla and pay madness cost, both vengevines trigger, attack for 8. on turn 1. and if he has another land, it's he can attack for 12 next turn. meanwhile my turn 1 mountain, goblin guide seemed to pale in comparison. Game 2 wasn't very pretty either as I was a bit land screwed and wasn't able to think up the right plays to survive until I was able to cast flamebreak. Game 2 ended around turn 5. I boarded in 3 flamebreaks and searing blaze, took out 3 sulfuric vortex and 3 lava spikes. as i don't have any graveyard hate, my only plan is to rush them before the deck overwhelms me.

Round 4 - 4C Zoo W 2-0

there was 1 guy at 9 points and 5 of us at 6 points. so all of us at 6 points had to play for top 4.

I feel that preboarded games, it seems like whoever goes first will win. as their guys are pretty much repeatable bolts while yours are one shot spells. I managed to draw more bolts than he did action and managed a close win. Game 2 he had to mull to 4 and kept a no land hand and didn't draw a land until my 4th turn. That's pretty much game over since I had a fairly good grip of burn spells that I saved up just in case he got mana and started casting dudes. I boarded in 3 flamebreaks and searing blazes and took out 3 sulfuric vortex and hellspark elementals

Top 4 - B/G Survival Madness W 2-1

these were really close and intense games as we both knew that the game can end on each of our turn 4s. Game 1 was pretty epic as he mulled to 4 but i didn't have much of a hand. Should have mulled but i felt going down to 6 was going to be bad. On my turn 3, it seemed like i had a good position since i had a goblin guide in play and he had nothing significant and I was winning in life totals by around 6 points. I decided to play a sulfuric vortex. Next turn, he manages to discard vengevine, cast birds of paradise, evoke shriekmaw to kill my guide, bring back vengevine and all of a sudden, i have no blockers and he's got a 4 power guy and now i'm going to be behind in life totals soon. I was drawing crap and decided that I had to try to bring his life total to something low and pray i topdeck some good stuff. I topdecked a barbarian ring with no threshold and played my 2nd sulfuric vortex. next turn, i was at 1 and he was at 7. I topdecked a fireblast and that was game. cast fireblast, achieved threshold, sac ring for 2 and then sulfuric vortex deal the rest of the damage. WHEW! I boarded in 3 flamebreak and searing blaze and took out the 3 sulfuric vortex and 3 hellspark elementals. Game 2, neither of us mulled and I was a bit mana screwed and needed one more mana to win. for game 3, boarded out the 2 lavamancers and boarded in the hellspark elementals. I felt that the lavamancers were useless since all of his 1 toughness guys comes down on the same turn the vengevine comes into play. Game 3 he had to mulligan to 5 but I had the perfect hand where I had enough bolts to send to his head, searing blaze with landfall to kill his important creatures and when he did get the vengevine out, next turn i cleared the board with flamebreak and then i drew more bolts and was able to finish him off next turn.

The survival/madness deck is just insane in how it can swing the board situation from really bad to really good in just one turn.

Finals - Split with U/r control. it was pretty much mono-U except the red is just for firesprouts in the board.

[YrdBrd72803]

Kyle Miller finished 2nd at the StarCityGames Legacy Open in Denver over the weekend with this list:

4 Goblin Guide
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Price of Progress
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Wooded Foothills
8 Mountain

4 Vexing Shusher
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
4 Searing Blaze
3 Volcanic Fallout

Pretty standard stuff except for the inclusion of the set of Lavamancers and Vortexes main. The only thing that looks a lil out of sorts to my eyes is 12 fetches. Seems about 4 too many. I think 8 fetches combined with the number of spells hitting the graveyard would give you plenty of Lavamancer food. With Lavamancer in the main, perhaps the Vortexes should be Flamebreak/Fallout?

[Lifeless]

Kyle Miller finished 2nd at the StarCityGames Legacy Open in Denver over the weekend with this list:

4 Goblin Guide
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Price of Progress
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Wooded Foothills
8 Mountain

4 Vexing Shusher
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
4 Searing Blaze
3 Volcanic Fallout

Pretty standard stuff except for the inclusion of the set of Lavamancers and Vortexes main. The only thing that looks a lil out of sorts to my eyes is 12 fetches. Seems about 4 too many. I think 8 fetches combined with the number of spells hitting the graveyard would give you plenty of Lavamancer food. With Lavamancer in the main, perhaps the Vortexes should be Flamebreak/Fallout?

Kyle is a good friend and testing partner of mine so I can try to shed some light on the Vortexes. He loves them because if you're ahead you can often stick one and win outright. There's no way he would have beaten Enchantress in round 2 without them in the main to get him game 1.

[martyr]

I've been thinking about Repercussion as a sideboard card against creature-based decks, instead of Searing Blaze or maybe in addition to it (in Kyle's deck, in place of the Volcanic Fallouts). I like it over Fallout because it gives you a more solid answer to decks whose creatures are frequently pumped over 2 toughness (merfolk, zoo, etc). In an aggro-heavy meta, you can drop most of the creatures maindeck in favor of Flamebreak and Magma Jet (Flamebreak should be obvious, Magma Jet to increase the likelihood of hitting your third land drop or sweeping the board when it's most relevant), with a few copies of Repurcussion in the SB. Drop some combination of Sulfuric Vortex, your remaining creatures, and Price of Progress, side in the Repercussions and Searing Blaze, and go to town. As soon as Repercussion hits, assuming you get to untap and no extremely unlucky draws occur, you're almost guaranteed to win the race...and going t3 Repercussion, t4 Flamebreak is hilarious. Turn 4 wins when a zoo player thought he was going to be able to race with his god hand are hilarious, as is hitting a Goblins player for 15+.

It might be too slow, it might be too fragile, but I doubt anyone's really expecting it, and the few games I've played with friends suggest that it can really break open an aggro-heavy meta.