[Deck] Tarmogoyf Stompy

[Gui]

@ Drossie

Imo, you will have some trouble with the mana base...
You have low lands (that actually should also have fetchlands to goyf enable) and too much creatures, what make the need for more stable lands... you have only 14 pump spells, and that make berserk a lot worse... and you could get all the petals and all the ESG, since petals are good for goyf and ESG will help you with the mana-base
i would cut berserk off from this list and make the creatures the main objective, having the pumps to help then, or make room for some seal of strengh and briar shield to look for a second or third turn kill, with petals and ESG... for the berserk version, i would use no quirion and use ridgeback instead of Lion... For the creatures version i would cut BotH for Briars and finde room for 12 Lands, helping you to play then... and so yould play River Boa too...

[Xenocide]

Tomorrow I will play a tournament with this build:
// sideboard
3 X Naturalize
3 X Tormod’s Crypt
3 X Hidden Gibbons
3 X Hidden Herd
3 X Winter Orb

I would run Chalice instead of Hidden Herd.

Well, it's at least an option, If you are to defeat high tide, you would have to splash another collor to the deck to have a good chance... at least it buy you time, since they will not be able to finish you turn 2 it they are to play around it...

High Tide doesn't combo till turn 4 (and rarely turn 3), in this matchup you want to race them, and that is why Gibbons and Legate are good.

[Gui]

I would run Chalice instead of Hidden Herd.

High Tide doesn't combo till turn 4 (and rarely turn 3), in this matchup you want to race them, and that is why Gibbons and Legate are good.

I Would run Chalice instead of Hidden Herd (2)

I don't know which high tide we are talking about, but the usually combo by turn 3 yeah... Both are good to rush then, but i doubt that you will be able to kill then before they kill you... in that aspect, going berserk is much better than more creatures...

[from Cairo]

Chalice set for what? 1cc? 2cc? Normally versus High Tide I think that 1cc on the play is probably the right call thats gets High Tide, Brainstorm and Chain of Vapor and makes it so their getting no way to gain additional mana until turn 3+ at which point they can start using Reset to gain some mana or could Cunning Wish for an answer, but Chalice at 1cc also makes 3/4ths+ of Stompy uncastable, which seems like it would remove any sort of clock you might otherwise have. 2cc would be the other option, but that costs 4 mana so its probably not happening for Stompy until turn 3 (at which point its likely too late), maybe turn two with some weird double ESG hand, but that leaves them with High Tide and Brainstorm available and Chain of Vapor which seems like it wouldn't really help you win that much.

I think Root Maze + Winter Orb/Choke would probably work better for delaying Solidarity a couple turns and not disrupting one's ability to cast the majority of the deck.

[Gui]

I aggre that chalice alone can't do much but delaying then almost the same they delay you, since it cut half of your deck... that's why i aways run a list with 12 lands and try running 2cc creatures and sometimes even wild might as a 2cc growth... actualy running dryad, boas, goyfs and trying rancor or shield before the chalice can make things easier... root maze + WO + choke is good, but does not seen to be a solution as efective for other combos as chalice, that cam be played @0 to igg+led based combos...

[Xenocide]

Chalice for 0 vs. Belcher (and to a lesser extent TES). The Chalice conversation crossed over into the Solidarity conversation, I didn't mean to give the impression that Chalice was for Solidarity.

[from Cairo]

Chalice for 0 vs. Belcher (and to a lesser extent TES). The Chalice conversation crossed over into the Solidarity conversation, I didn't mean to give the impression that Chalice was for Solidarity.

Cool that makes a lot more sense.

[Gui]

Cool that makes a lot more sense.

yep... since solidarity can return it, as any of the other options we have available...

-----------= New Decklist.... Edit =----------

I was wondering abou why not splashing another collor to the deck, since it runs a lot of basics and a lot of fetchies, and i can actually use other collors to get more consistancy....
If I were to play 2c TarmoStompy, i would probably make it GB Stompy like this:

// Lands
3 [BD] Forest
3 [U] Bayou
2 [8E] Swamp
2 [ON] Wooded Foothills
2 [ON] Polluted Delta

// Creatures
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
4 [AL] Elvish Spirit Guide
4 [VI] River Boa
4 [EX] Carnophage
4 [FUT] Street Wraith

// Spells
4 [DM] Giant Growth
4 [FNM] Rancor
4 [WL] Briar Shield
4 [TE] Sarcomancy
4 [MM] Land Grant
4 [TE] Lotus Petal

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [ARE] Duress
SB: 3 [JU] Cabal Therapy
SB: 4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 4 [MM] Rushwood Legate


So it would be able to use a great draw advantage that is DC, that's still a good creature, and to use Duress and Cabal as sides that is much more consistant against most of the situations...
Any thoughts?

[Xenocide]

I'm not too sure about that decklist, it seems as if you will be killing yourself too quickly with fetches, Dark Confidant, Street Wraith, Carnophage, and Sarcomancy.

[Gui]

I'm not too sure about that decklist, it seems as if you will be killing yourself too quickly with fetches, Dark Confidant, Street Wraith, Carnophage, and Sarcomancy.

Well... not really.... never happened until now... i've been testing it since i posted... u do deal some damage to yourself, but nothing that will make your game worse... DC is some to care about if you are about to die, but besides that, it works well... the worse condition in that is DC getting street wraith, dealing -7 to do something good... but it's not so common...

[SuckerPunch]

I don't understand why everyone keeps bringing up River Boa.

The point of the deck is to run 9 lands and win early. You are not going to have more than 1 land most games, and if you use a ESG and your land to play a 2/1 that you can't even protect because you don't have the mana to protect it, you are going to lose. Just think about how much tempo you lose when your opponent burns or Smothers or StPs the Boa the turn you spent two mana to play it. Besides, most of the removal spells in the format ignore regeneration. If you used that mana to play 2 2/1s, you can win twice as fast, and don't lose an entire turn by just one removal spell.

[Gui]

I don't understand why everyone keeps bringing up River Boa.

The point of the deck is to run 9 lands and win early. You are not going to have more than 1 land most games, and if you use a ESG and your land to play a 2/1 that you can't even protect because you don't have the mana to protect it, you are going to lose. Just think about how much tempo you lose when your opponent burns or Smothers or StPs the Boa the turn you spent two mana to play it. Besides, most of the removal spells in the format ignore regeneration. If you used that mana to play 2 2/1s, you can win twice as fast, and don't lose an entire turn by just one removal spell.

Never tryed it out, have you?

[Drossie]

Somebody tried Keen Sense allready in this deck?
A bit of draw is very wellcome in my build!

[SuckerPunch]

Never tryed it out, have you?

Yes I have. That was the whole point of my post.

It's much worse than Tarmogoyf. Goyf quickly gets big enough that it is better than regeneration. Many games, you aren't even able to cast a 2cc card, and it sucks to have 2 2cc cards in your deck. And those games where you can cast it, you only occasionally want to. You are better off laying down two creatures, or a creature and a pump spell, or just casting Tarmogoyf.

The deck can only support so many 2cc drops. Upping the land count just dilutes the threats and is a bad idea. Goyf is almost always superior to Boa in the 2cc slot. Sure, occasionally, Boa manages to go the distance against some blue decks. But the majority of those decks run Swords and could care less about Regeneration. And, those decks have plenty of ways to stop Boa. And the blue decks aren't even this decks main concern anyways. You need to be able to race combo, and Boa just makes it hard to do.

[scrumdogg]

This is a version of the deck which we have been testing, with some success. It moves away from the strict Stompy model but is more consistent. Could be hybridized to be speedier (add in ESGs for example). The only problem is that some of the cards are $$ expensive, but if you have Berserks why not play with them?

// Lands
4 [B] Bayou
4 [AP] Llanowar Wastes
4 [RAV] Overgrown Tomb
4 [UG] Forest
4 [ON] Wooded Foothills

// Creatures
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
4 [GP] Silhana Ledgewalker
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [FUT] Llanowar Augur

// Spells
3 [SOK] O-Naginata
3 [7E] Duress
3 [JU] Cabal Therapy
4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach (2)
4 [MM] Invigorate
3 [UL] Rancor
4 [B] Berserk

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [7E] Duress
SB: 1 [JU] Cabal Therapy
SB: 2 [AP] Pernicious Deed
SB: 3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 4 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 [PLC] Extirpate

[Cavius The Great]

Allen, have you considered Funeral Charm? It seems like the instant count is really low for a deck that abuses Tarmogoyf. The deck looks solid though, I like it. I really think you should play this deck at the Berserk tourney just to see how it does.

[Gui]

Yes I have. That was the whole point of my post.

It's much worse than Tarmogoyf. Goyf quickly gets big enough that it is better than regeneration. Many games, you aren't even able to cast a 2cc card, and it sucks to have 2 2cc cards in your deck. And those games where you can cast it, you only occasionally want to. You are better off laying down two creatures, or a creature and a pump spell, or just casting Tarmogoyf.

The deck can only support so many 2cc drops. Upping the land count just dilutes the threats and is a bad idea. Goyf is almost always superior to Boa in the 2cc slot. Sure, occasionally, Boa manages to go the distance against some blue decks. But the majority of those decks run Swords and could care less about Regeneration. And, those decks have plenty of ways to stop Boa. And the blue decks aren't even this decks main concern anyways. You need to be able to race combo, and Boa just makes it hard to do.

You should be able to play 2cc cards if you want your deck to be fast... having 2 forest to play 2 pumps, a pump and a creature, or a 2cc creature second turn is what makes the deck fast anyway... you say that boa is to be removed from game with stp, so if it's good enough for that, why not playing it? it's regen ability saves it from burn, help against other aggro and let it atack when oppo has manny creatures too... Goyf is realy faster then boa, well, it's the faster creature in the hole format, but it is as removeable as boa, and what if you got no goyf on the game? mulligan until you have one? try to combo with a 2/1 ? not aways it's that easy to manage your own combo... sure, runnig a berserk based version, you should stick to speed, but i was defending a version with 24+ creatures and 10~12 pumps, consistant enough to play against other aggros... and river boa happens to be MVP every aggro-control deck I play against... since it's a must counter, must remove, must kill, the same as goyf itself...

[asi]

River Boa also gets killed by Darkblast and merely one Jitte-Counter.

[scrumdogg]

Allen, have you considered Funeral Charm? It seems like the instant count is really low for a deck that abuses Tarmogoyf. The deck looks solid though, I like it. I really think you should play this deck at the Berserk tourney just to see how it does.

I loves me some Funeral Charm, but the effect is too limited to simply include it as an instant for Tarmogoyf. I realize that I only have 4 instants (8 after boarding) but if my opponent doesn't play instants then I should probably be beating them anyway. I also don't want to get too cute & play everything with only Tarmogoyf in mind. The 10 discard that are in the deck are the hardest hitting in the format, the pump can pile on quickly with low cc's & alt cc's but half of it is reusable, the creatures can all be a threat (some more than others admittedly) or at least removal bait - this deck would love to Zerk a 10 power Goyf, but doing the same to a Ledgewalker is just fine.

I have no idea what the meta in Brazil looks like, but if Boa still works in the Southern hemisphere - go get 'em. He has (sadly) been long obsoleted here in North America as he dies to everything. I would love River Boa to be good, but he simply isn't & therefore we (North Americans & people playing in a Boa-unfriendly meta) need to find cards that work better.

[DrJones]

Could someone tell me what this deck offers that's different/not worse than The Cure? I've been following this thread since it appeared and I still not see the point in playing this over a stompy build that kills on turn 2 and has better creatures. (Not trying to be offensive/dismissive here)