[Deck] Elves Combo

[andrebonotto]

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Thanks for the reply.

I think I'll save up some money until I can get a Karakas and try this 2x-Crop + silver bullets tutoring.

Although, I'm not sure if it'll work well for me because I tend to see quite regularly counterspells being played around here...

But nonetheless, I like to get all options for my Elves' card pool :)

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My mana base for crop rotation sb plan is similar to LSV's except -2 fetch (8), +1 horizon canopy, +1 forest.
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Don't the 2 fewer fetchlands being played hinder your DRS's value on the early game throughout the tournament?

I'm considering trimming down to 9 fetchlands in order to get another main deck Forest, so that I can feel a little "safer" over my mana base.

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As for NO-prog, I'll bring them in against any fair deck not running heavy countermagic.
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That's what I've been hearing (reading). But I've also heard that some players actually board in Progenitus against Miracle and/or Canadian Thresh.

To whom has experience on these match ups, how good is Prog. against them?

Will I ever be able to cast NO on these two match ups?

I'm not too confident on it, specially against Miracles, with the risk of my effort being Terminused away.

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Edit: Progenitus does not stop Helm/RIP combo since RIP exiles progenitus as an "instead".
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Although you point to the correct result of this interaction, I don't think it's clear there on the reason to that being so, because Progenitus' triggered ability is also a replacement effect (there is an "instead" written on it too).

Let's do the reasoning through the long way:

Legendary Creature — Hydra Avatar 10/10, WWUUBBRRGG (10)
Protection from everything

If Progenitus would be put into a graveyard from anywhere, reveal Progenitus and shuffle it into its owner's library instead.

So, doing a little research, this is what I've found:

614.1a Effects that use the word "instead" are replacement effects. Most replacement effects use the word "instead" to indicate what events will be replaced with other events.

616.1. If two or more replacement and/or prevention effects are attempting to modify the way an event affects an object or player, the affected object's controller (or its owner if it has no controller) or the affected player chooses one to apply (...).

Based on this information, we can conclude that if Progenitus would be Helm of Obedienced way, with Rest in Peace being in play, since both effects (Prog's and RIP's) are trying to replace Progenitus' entering the graveyard, since I am "the affected object's controller" (I controll Progenitus), I am the one who choose which of the replacement effects is going to apply.

I would, hence, choose Progenitus' replacement effect to apply, and then he would end up shuffled back on my deck.

But then, "an infinite loop" would be generated, with my whole deck being milled away and exiled until only Progenitus remains there, and the process continuing to repeat.

However, Koby's answer on THIS POST asserts that "Since this is an uncontrolled loop, a choice will have to be made to break that loop. The choice to exile Progenitus will be forced."

(I think the rules that support this is anywhere on "716. Taking Shortcuts". But I won't be able to find their exact location because my wife achieved maximum loyality counters and is using them to 'ultimate me' to help her with dinner. I must end this post to resolve her ultimate ability ASAP or else... )

The linked thread sums up this whole interaction, but I only found it after I had written my reasoning

Well, I hope that at least my long post have any use to someone on this thread.

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TLDR:

• Progenitus can be reshuffled back to your library until your library consists of only him.
  
• Then, to break the infinite loop, the choice to apply RIP's replacement effect over Progenitus' one will be forced, and Progenitus will be exiled too.