I don't take the response as flaming, I understand what I posted will be met with harsh criticism but as I stated, I have not felt that Knight is as effective as she has been in the past.Originally Posted by Warden
I do not need explainations on why she is good or her uses, I have played with/against her since she began seeing play. I have several top 8's with Punishing Mav and more top 8 finishes with Knight in Junk lists.
My statement currently is that the only time I really wish I had Knight was when I needed Karakas. Usually in close games I am searching for Scooze/Equipment/Pridemage.
Honestly though, it was just a question trying to explore options.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
It's been a couple months now since I've played the deck, but I've cut down to 3 knights at times and I think tracker is not horrible at times as well. But I've never really thought knight was actively not good. I can't imagine what you replace him with.
Death and Taxes is a tier 1 deck and has been the best version of Wx aggro for a few years now. If people are migrating towards GW Vial Maverick, at that point they need to realize they are just playing a worse version of Death and Taxes. That being said, Wx creature decks have received a ton of new tools recently that Maverick has failed to incorporate into any successful list.
I have been testing 3x Sanctum Prelates recently to great promise and I am trying to look for other cards that we have let pass us by.
Mirran Crusader is obviously huge right now with the surge of BGu Leovold decks, Recruiter of the Guard could help keep our tutor count high if we replace Knight, she also gives us many more options starting turn 2 seeing how we want a turn 1 ramp effect every game.
A future fear is the new Harsh Mentor card that will shock the entire format(pun intended) including BGx, DnT and Miracles, we will get residual damage as Knight/Shaman/Mom/Equipment/Pridemage will all trigger the effect, the easiest response would be to go back to punishing Maverick and just play the bugger ourselves... but punishing fire looks pretty silly against Leovold/TNN.
Essentially, I am saying that I feel the core of the deck is:
Mom
Thalia
Stoneforge
GSZ
and after that point things start to get weird.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
There have been some successful builds with 3 Thalia + 3 Pushfires. Yes, it might sound completely counter-intuitive, and like hurting yourself, but it actually still works. You just don't play Thalia if you're facing a creature deck and want to have your removal engine going efficiently, and you pay {1} more to kill Delvers and Shamans.
To make a prairie, it takes a clover and one bee. One clover, a bee, and revery...
I went 3-0 last night with NEELY's list with some modifications.
Rd 1 - Aggro Loam
Rd 2 - 4c Delver
Rd 3 - Death and Taxes.
Good job! Although I think all 3 matchups you faced are favorable for Maverick :)
To make a prairie, it takes a clover and one bee. One clover, a bee, and revery...
Sweet! What changes, from my latest list I cut the 2 orbs and playing an additional needle and 1 surgical.
How's needle been for you? I ran revokers and felt they were unnecessary. Needles don't help me against decks I need them to (ie; I still lose to miracles, get blown out by NicFit, and struggle with Lands).
Well I've played 2 leagues and am 8-2 losing to Omni and eldrazi. Beat miracles 3 times, they were good and also good vs decks like sneak and show and reanimator. They do what I want in those matchups.
Edit:the loss with Omni was my own fault putting in canonist when most likely just putting a fatty in. I had zenith in hand and a couple of dorks I could of played and able to get more than 6 permenants to survive and emrakul hit
I went 3-1 in the local weekly legacy event playing an experimental build with 2 Vials, 3 GSZ's, 2 Confidants (maybe I should just play extra Trackers, I feel like I want extra card draw due to the Vials anyway), 3 KotR's, 2 Stoneforge, 3 Equipment, 1 Titania. Something like that. Thought I wouldn't comment on it yet, but oh well, it's fun so why not. If I have some success with it I'll post a list.
R1 vs Mardu Stoneblade 2-0: I was simply drawing better
R2 vs Storm 0-2: G1 was a mulligan to 3 due to no lands (and I knew the first hand with lands, Vial, Confidant and some other beater wouldn't be good enough vs him). I managed to get Stoneforge + Sword of F&I and hit him down to 13 before he Ad Nauseamed successfully. Was about to t2 choke in G2 locking down his U.Sea but he had Petal and a second Therapy for double first turn interaction. With him almost empty handed I drew 4 consecutive lands and lost that game (too).
R3 vs Burn 2-1: KotR instrumental in winning G1, allowing me to equip Jitte and start gaining life.
R4 vs Bant Stoneblade 2-0: Vial + Tracker drew me a lot of cards G1, and he didn't find artifact removal for my equipments. Titania was instrumental in winning a game that looked lost, opponent had Scryb Ranger with equipped Jitte and an active Mother around turn 3 and I had no artifact removal. I managed to get half a dozen 5/3 tokens in from Titania and double Wastelands.
When Facing Miracles what do you take out? I normally go -4 Knight -1 Scooze. I play a pretty stock list except I'm on a 3/3 Split of Swords/Decays in the MD.
I drop the two orbs for a surgical and Nissa, Vital Force.
I'm also not really 100% on the 4th mom. Don't get me wrong. She's incredible annoying to deal with from,the opponent side, but now the Walking Ballista is a dominating card in BUG chain, with Miracles running E.Es, 4c Value Pile running all the edicts, what's the only reason why to run the 4th mom? Maybe I'm not seeing that perspective anymore now that grixis Delver doesn't see a ton of play. I ran a 3rd Stoneforge instead and it made the games much more in favor because each subsequent S.M grew more powerful over the game.
Look at my latest list I did well with except the extra needle is the only think relevant.
Bring in 1 teeg, 1 pridemage, 2 Choke, 1 garruk, 2 needle
Remove 3-4 swords depending on mentor, I like to leave 1 or 2 if they are playing it. -1 ooze, -2 kotr, on the draw i sometime shave a gsz if I leave a swords in.
The reason to run 4 moms is she is great in fair match ups and is the best way to protect teeg or Thalia with combo and miracles. Don't leave home without 4 of her. But everyone is able to play what they want. I dont feel like I need another walker sometime garruk is hard enough to cast.
I've only ever sided out KotR against Burn--I've never tried doing it versus Miracles. What's the logic and is t worth trying out?
Ie, what convinced you guys to do it and has it improved your matchup?
Why would you side it out against burn? A 4/4 is really hard for them to remove and it protects you from price.
First, don't side out KOTR against burn. It is the only thing that doesn't die to a single burn spell and knight beats are real.
The reason i side out a Knight or two is because it doesn't have much utility in the match up and cost three mana. I want to play cards that can disrupt them like teeg, mom, thalia and pridemage. KOTR doesn't fit in there to do that.
I side out -4 Knight -1 Dark Depths for +2 Sanctum Prelate (on the play)/+2 Decay (On the draw), +1 Teeg, +1 Scooze, +1 Pridemage
Hey!
today i took Maverick to another 3:1 at a local Event
beat Infect, Food Chain, Aggro Loam - lost against Julian23s Elves
(at the last Event i also went 3:1 beating Show and Tell, Elves, BR Reanimator but lost against Burn)
heres my stock list which i play for quite a while now. (i play this deck through the last 5 years now)
unfortunatly i have no mtgo, so im not able to test as much as i want...
Maindeck:
2 Forrest
1 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Gaeas Cradle
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Noble Hierarch
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scrybranger
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasal Pridemage
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Suns Zenith
1 Sylvan Library
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawas Jitte
Sideboard:
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Gaddock Teeg
2-3 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Garruk Relentless
2 Choke
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Pithing Needle
0-1 Sanctum Prelate
i have 3 Flex Slots at the Moment which are 2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar and 1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
Thalia Heretic Cathar on the Play is a real hatebear which can slow down the Opponent a lot
Sigarda is probably the best flying Monster which saves your Team from Lilliana or Anhilator, also cant be removed too easy.
if someone ask me to change something i would maybe say: take out Thalia 2.0 and Sigarda for 2 Abrupt Decays and a Batterskull for a more streamlined Version...
but in General i im not a big fan of SFM/Package
one good Thing about the maindeck is that its straight GW with a solid manabase.
the 2 black sources are enough to cast the Sideboard Cards.
I cut the thoughtseizes completely in the Sideboard because in the last months it was the Card which i never played. (does anyone Play storm?)
instead added more flexible Cards like Reclamation sage, Containment Priest and Sanctum Prelate which are ooooook.
i will squeeze a Krosan Grip somewhere in the Sideboard because of the many Food chain decks around
in a meta full of Leovolds i think sylvan library is not that good as it was... tested mirris guile but thats also mehhh
i definitely bring this to MKM Frankfurt..... and afterwards i will spent some time brewing on a punishing maverick list after Amonkeht.
Don't randomly quote the person directly above you. Especially not such long posts. -Julian23
I like the list, with miracles being popular, I like to keep abrupt decay main and want to be better at casting it and the reason I'm running 2 bayou. Death and Taxes is super popular and the main reason I won't even consider running the new Thalia, sucks playing vs multiple Karakas. Thoughtseize is a card I feel we need against combo in general and wouldn't leave home without 3. Obviously if you are playing mostly local events metagame dictates are card choices.
Last edited by Julian23; 04-15-2017 at 06:14 PM. Reason: Removed unnecessary quote
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