[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

[Kerotan1989]

Missed this one
- for me once I played the deck the XP was so different I couldn't play any other, the floor is high but the ceiling is basically infinite here so, it's most desireable to play it in an unknown meta, one problem you experience in the LGS is ppl will try to hate you out if you're decent resulting into sometimes uphill battle and the annonymity is very liberating at large tournaments.

- regarding deckchoice to explore Legacy - that's hard, depends how good player you are already and how motivated/discouraged you can get, the deck is more unforgiving but I think it's generally the same for all decks just the Ant losses/mistakes are more obvious and traceable, which also make it much better to analyze and learn from both your play and other people playing ... the deck by itself is just a niche thing almost a subgame within Mtg so you get a bit different XP then mainstream in Legacy if you don't mind it...

there is no "standard" list, we ain't TES, but I think it's safe to say the derivatives of former Sherer 2DP list and Togores 2Pif Adn list are the poles most list gravitate to... based and tuned to personal preferences and expectation which is right imo - just play a lot and find configs you like, going through the process is the most important



just remember timing of the trigger and read the oracle notes - you need to know how rules works not get unpleasantly surprised

As long as SDT is in play when it becomes your turn you're fine right? Scales will immediately have to target it or something else that isn't itself, and then you're okay to spin top in response.

[Jeff]

you're lucky to have good guys to play with, proper testing sessions with good players certainly bring more respectable results then theorizing after 12player 4 rounder, no cringe there

Not fundamentally but has changed with keeping removal, EE and SE, mass introducing Predict resulting into more versions of the deck and overall improvement of the average Miracle player (I'm under such impression)

I can certainly understand this working, but that's why I'm mentioning awkward G3 as usually you don't have the luxury of having 2 good plans - I imagine Anuraags list having something like 3StP, 2EE, 3Snapcaster which I think is enough to blank the plan a lot of times as XS is partially covered by CB... (quite tempting to try out with AD MD as you win G1 much more), how do you feel about G3 when SB gets corrected (oftentimes well, due to the SE info)?

It's hard to say for sure. I definitely have games where I probe and see a lot of creature removal and then just try to find a brainstorm to get rid of my dudes, but one of the beauties of the creature plan is that if you know they have removal then xantid swarm can just flash back cabal therapy before they get priority, which is sweet.

It's always going to come down to "what are people prepared for" and how to thwart that. I'm sure a nonzero amount of my positive results come from people expecting me to play the grinding station game, and then I run them over. A lot of where you talk about Game 3's is solved because I also have an above average game 1 percentage, even though I'm not playing decay main. They've got a LOT of dead cards main so winning game 1, and then getting game 2 with dudes and never having a game 3 is a viable plan, but becomes less viable if they expect the dudes plan game 2.

So . . . long story short I don't really know why what I'm doing is working, but until it stops working I'm gonna keep doing it. At some point either people wiill pick up what I'm doing and miracles pilots will expect it and it'll stop working and I'll have to adapt, or they won't and I'll keep winning.

[CabalTherapy]

Usually I've stopped writing tournament reports of the weekly Tuesday events because there are too many and most of the time I have quite different
results varying from 1-3 to 4-0. Nevertheless, I reached another level of dedication to the format yesterday. Since I am not a student anymore, I don't have
a ticket for our public transportation, so I decided to ride my mediocre bike 20km in one direction through the entire city; making only one turn but otherwise
20km straight through.
Took my MDAD list with me. Most games were rather interesting and challenging.

Round 1 Team America
I decay his turn 2 DRS and manage to win with a spicy line that involves him having two FoW+pitch which I didnt see after a Brainstorm. At some point I had to flip
top into a ritual to be able to cast ToA from hand and DR was on top. Lucky me. Game 2 was insane. In the last turn possible I only had one CT, 3 CR, 1 LED, 1 Pif and Toa in hand
and he had 3 Forces, 1 Daze, 1 Flusterstorm with two active DRS. I need to resolve the first CR to be able to do something and he lets it happen (I had 3 lands in play). Then I am able to
generat enough mana to pay for Flusterstorm easily after a resolved PiF.
2-0

Round 2 SneakShow
I have a turn1 kill, play DR, he thinks a bit and forces. I kill him on t2 with a Pifloop without seeing his hand. In game 2 I have a slow start but he has a Griselbrand on turn2 and plays carefully.
In the last one, I resolve my singleton Xantid on t2 and he has an interesting interaction on turn 4 where he goes for Wish > SE in response to the Xantid trigger and takes out my GP, although I also
had a Ponder in the yard and in hand which was needed for me to search for a black source. I found one and won with a tutor chain.
2-1

Round 3 Elves
He mulligans to six and starts with DRS but I play AdN with two LEDs and a BS which eventually gets there. Game 2 was quite funny, he hits 2 LEDs with a t1 blind CT and takes my IT with Thoughtseize the following turn.
I am left with CR and a BS with Tutor on top and manage to BS into a win on my turn3. He was a bit disappointed but I felt like he misplayed a bit with his discard spells.
2-0

Round 4 PredictMiracles
I am able to resolve cc2 spells through two CBs in game one which forces me to go for AdN from 14 I think although I announced to have RRR in my pool. I draw enough cards to neglect his cc1 (Top in play, no mana left) but eventually he has a Jace on top which makes him go down to 1 and ultimaltly he locks me out of the game with CBs and Jace and I never draw a Decay or Pif. Game two was quite a grind. I went for the hardcore 3 Toa, 2 Pif, 1 Adn no IT, no LED plan again and at some point was able to punch through a bunch of counterspells, decaying a top, playing Duress, and resolving Toa with more than enough copies. We had 5 min left on the clock afterwards and he had all the counterspells in hand and I couldnt assamble a win that fast.
1-1-1
into
3 - 0 - 1
All in all, a great tournament followed by a looooong night ride back home.

[the_ob3lisk]

All,

In regards to those have tested the maindeck Abrupt Decays what have been your thoughts? (Saw Togore's post on his experience)

I have see various results being put up online, with and without.

Personally been playing a few weeklys with a pretty stock list with no issues, venturing to a bigger tournament this weekend.

Thanks

[fangzie]

All,
In regards to those have tested the maindeck Abrupt Decays what have been your thoughts? (Saw Togore's post on his experience)

I've personally only done a small amount of testing, will be playing tonight and in another event this weekend plus have a league to finish. I'll probably have a more firmly cemented opinion by then, but so far I've been missing preordain. I did manage to secure a game one against miracles last night, although I did have an earlier line that was considerably riskier (ad nauseam from 14, no mana floating. I didn't take the line because i knew I had decay floating). I'm also aware this isn't enough time to test adequately, especially when it comes to the one extra sideboard slot it opens up, but frankly I just don't have the time to do so

[Morden]

my humble opinion about decay mainboard: I don't like it, because.....

1) ad nauseam is worse.
2) if you run only 4 infernal as business (no grim, no petition), you want preordain or top.
3) if you are locked by eidolon, thalia, counterbalance, chalice on 1, do you really think to have time cantripping for a card that you run in 2 copies maximum? MAYBE.... basically if you don't have it already in hand, you are dead.
4) if you fear hate, play 2 duress, 4 therapy, 1 thoughtseize. Prelate, thalia, eidolon, leovold, counterbalance all come down on turn 2 or later, you can discard them also on the draw. Miracle can be annoying, a good player will not tap out if he has a brainstom in hand, and in general discard cards are bad against cantrips. But non-blue deck are always at the topdeck, if you disrupt their opening hands is good. Therapy can also hit multiple copies in hand....... Chalice on turn 1 on the play is out of this logic, I know.
5) g1 is still favourable against ALL decks: also if opponents have autowin cards, they also have tons of dead cards. Sword to plowshares, terminus, council judgement, jitte, dismember, searing blaze, decay...... I don't wanna lose speed and consistency of the deck putting decays. Those ones I will surely draw when I'll play against omnishow, reanimator, mirror, elves........

that being said: if your meta is VERY miracle heavy, I'd consider playing decay mb. In fact, you'll have more free slots in your sb; you have no pressure, you can have time to find a decay and have a chance to win g1 under counter-top.

[Ronald Deuce]

I've taken a break from storming lately, primarily because my metagame's become so hostile to it; I went 0–3 a couple of weeks ago, in part because of play errors (seriously, practice is extremely important with this deck), and in part because I just couldn't get anything off the ground against heavy control and bear after bear after bear. It's gotten me thinking that I might do some tinkering with my list to try to up the speed without throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

My gut tells me that Morden's first point is pretty crucial to the discussion of Abrupt Decay: all we're really doing against faster decks is making one of our speed-kills riskier.

I never had a situation at the last tournament massacre when I would've wanted a Decay. Maybe some kind of spot removal would've been helpful, but Decay specifically never was the perfect card for dealing with any of the things I was facing.

What exact problem are people using the maindeck Decays to solve? If it's Leovold, why wouldn't a multiple-Empty plan work better, perhaps in lieu of Ad Nauseam?

Sad to say I'll probably be shelving the deck for a while. It's definitely got game, but it feels like a poor choice in a sub-10-person tournament with a lot of regulars.

[Jonathan Alexander]

my humble opinion about decay mainboard: I don't like it, because.....

3) if you are locked by eidolon, thalia, counterbalance, chalice on 1, do you really think to have time cantripping for a card that you run in 2 copies maximum? MAYBE.... basically if you don't have it already in hand, you are dead.

Basically, Daze is almost always the better card here. And Miracles is not a reason to maindeck Decay, that matchup is very favourable before sideboarding anyway.

[movadomk5]

Surfinbird how have you been liking your sideboard and whats been your plan for the popular matchups?

Also how has culling scales been working out overall for those playing it?

[Surfinbird]

Surfinbird how have you been liking your sideboard and whats been your plan for the popular matchups?

Also how has culling scales been working out overall for those playing it?

Hi! Some days ago i talked about my sideboard in the ANT Players Facebook group, so i'll copy what i said about it:

"The idea 4 Young Pyromancer + 4 Empty the Warrens in the sideboard is an idea that came to me as a good way to beat miracles. After 6 months and about 100 matches against them i wasn't happy with my results (51% of victorys when my general % is 65) i i didn't feel comfortable with any of the plans that i had tried (multiple tendrils, xantid swarm, decays+krosans...). But during this last months i felt like empty the warrens was a card that saved me from losing impossible games with top+ balance in board + some counters in hand. I was desesperated to find a good plan to beat them and i decided to try this crazy thing.

At the moment i only have played 4 times against miracles with this configuration and i've won them all, but it's still soon to consider if the plan is good or if it is easily beatable when known by the opponent. 2 of the matches were against the same guy and he couldn't beat me despite knowing the plan, that felt really good. My SB plan is +4 EtW +4 Young +4 Decay -4 LED -3 Infernal Tutor -1 Ad Nauseam -1 Preordain -1 Cabal Ritual -1 Lotus Petal -1 Island (maybe should be a 2n lotus petal, but playing EtW/YP in 1st turn can be a free win sometimes, so i'll keep working on this). The 2 Dark Petition are really important in this plan, since we dont want to empty our hand in a single turn but playing a dangerous card for them each turn if possible without taking big risks.

This way we have 4 EtW, 4 Pyromancers, 2 Petitions, 1 Infernal,1 Tendrils and 1 PiF as bombs, which seems to be to much and too variated for them. Sure they will leave terminus and explisives and probably your first 5-6 tokens will get answered. But during the time they look for an answer the stop searching for counters and we have time to prepare an army/assemble the standard combo again. Also they dilute their deck by trying to fit in removal+counters. I must say that an early mentor can be a problem for my plan, but i haven't been in this situation yet.

With all that said, i want to remember that i''ve just began to test that plan and despite it looks good i'm not saying it is the new best way to beat miracles or anything like this. In a few weeks i'll tell you if it works consistently or it's been just a fairy tale.

Other things. I only use this plan against miracles or landstill decks without shamans or big creatures at all. I tried pyromancer in a g3 against eldrazis where i was on the draw and they bought me lots of time to find answers to chalices and thorns and finally kill them. But it was just a single game:)

Maybe 12 cards to beat miracles seem to much, but i feel that we only need specific cards against them and reanimator (and maybe 1-2 massacre for thalia decks). Reanimator was a bad macthup despite playing 3-4 hate cards in board, so i decided to sacrifice these slots to try this plan. "


This was 5 days ago, and now i've played 9 times against miracles and i've won all of them, so i'm really happy with this plan.


My sideboard guide is the next one (now i'm running 2 culling scales in the place of massacre and echoing truth, but i haven't played them enough to draw any conclusions):

Miracles: +4 YP +4EtW +4 Decay// -4 LED -3 IT -1 Preordain -1 LP -1 Island -1 ADN -1 Cabal Ritual

UR, RUG, Grixis and BUG Delver: +1 ETW//-1 ADN(UR) or -1 Dark Petition (Others)

BUG Shardless/Control/Midrange (running eidolon): +2/3 Decay // -1 Dark Petition -1 Cabal Ritual (-1 Preordain).

Death and Taxes/GWb Zenith: +4 Decay +2 Culling Scales +1 EtW // -3 Duress -2 Dark Petition -2 Preordain

Aggroloam: +4 Decay +2 Culling Scales // -3 Cabal Therapy -2 Dark Petition -1 EtW

Eldrazis On the Play: +4 Decay +2 Culling Scales +1 EtW// -2 Dark Petition -3 Cabal Therapy - 2 Preordain

Eldrazis on the Draw: +4 Decay +4 Young Pyromancer +1EtW//-2 Dark PEtition -3 Cabal Therapy -3 Duress -2 Preordain

ANT: +1 Sadistic Sacrament // -1 Island

Sneak and Show: -1 Tropical Island +1 Young Pyromancer

Elves: +3 Abrupt Decay//-1 Island -2 Cabal Therapy

Burn: +4 Abrupt Decay +1 EtW//-3 Duress -1 Bloodstained Mire -1AdN

Br/u Reanimator / Tin Fins: -1 Heavy Metal Playlist +1 Photo of Jesus +1 Bible (Yes, we need 61 cards there)

[ScottW]

Hi! Some days ago i talked about my sideboard in the ANT Players Facebook group, so i'll copy what i said about it:

What's the name of the FB group?

[Surfinbird]

What's the name of the FB group?

MTG - Ad Nauseam Tendrils

[Shimi]

MTG - Ad Nauseam Tendrils

Nice, I would like to join it.


Hey guys, It has been a long time since I did not posted anything here on source.I´ve been working too much and just had the time to look at it once per week.

I´ve played the Paris BOM2017 but unfortunately I lost to Miracles (BOM winner) on the top16.I have also played at the 9h30 am Sunday Trial (4-1).

I will just post out my list and the matchups I have played against so you guys can have more data about it.

ANT Storm

2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Island
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest

4 Infernal Tutor
1 Dark Petition
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony

1 Rain of Filth
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lion´s Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Duress

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Sensei´s Divining Top

Sideboard:
2 Massacre
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Dark Confidant
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Flusterstorm
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Chrome Mox

BOM Main Event (7-1-1 , 11th)

Round 1 BG Depths 2-1 (1-0)
Round 2 BUG Standstill 2-1 (2-0)
Round 3 MonoRed Painter 2-1 (3-0)
Round 4 ANT 1-2 (3-1)
Round 5 UW Stoneblade 2-0 (4-1)
Round 6 Eldrazi 2-0 (5-1)
Round 7 Infect 2-1 (6-1)
Round 8 BUG Shardless 2-0 (7-1)
Round 9 Burn ID (7-1-1)

Top16 Predict Miracles 0-2

Sunday Trial
Rd 1 - BGW Midrange 2-0 (1-0)
Rd 2 - UB Tezzeret Thopter Foundry 2-0 (2-0)
Rd 3 - BELCHER!!! 2-1 (3-0)
Rd 4 - Elves* 0-2 (3-1)
Rd 5 - Grixis Delver 2-0 (4-1)

*The elves player is Julian but just figured it out after the match.

Quick Notes on decklist:
Bobs are for BUG midrange matchups and miracles.
Flusters and Surgical is for BR Reanimator.
I choose to play SDT against Leovold decks,Miracles and Black Discard.
Rain of Filth was crap, It was on the list to make ADN better.
Not really sure about the 15th land in this list without preordains.

[UseLess]

If you care to make Ad Nauseam better, then I think a single Chrome Mox is much better than a Rain of Filth. Been playing it now for a few months in the 15th land slot and have liked it a lot so far. Only downside is that I lose a green source (no bayou, only tropical), which might be tricky with the bit heavier green board I'm currently testing.

[Ronald Deuce]

I've always found Rain of Filth to be really helpful. One thing to consider is that we usually need more Rituals than we do other cards, so having a ninth one in the deck feels good. It also builds Threshold and gets black mana out of basic lands or superfluous fetches. It's on the slow side, though, and lately I've been having problems with speed, hence my picking up Reanimator.

I'd been on 14 lands, singletons Mox and Rain for a while. I actually found Mox to be more difficult to use than Rain, but that's just me.

[Megadeus]

Why have you found speed to be an issue? Isn't the fairness of the format mean that you would rather be a bit slower with more inevitability?

[Ronald Deuce]

Why have you found speed to be an issue? Isn't the fairness of the format mean that you would rather be a bit slower with more inevitability?

I've had a lot of problems lately with people's throwing down "can't play Storm" cards lately if I haven't been able to go off by turn 2. A lot of that is probably that I'm in a metagame where everyone knows pretty much everybody else's deck choices and options, but that makes it a pretty hostile place to be storming. I've been thinking of going back to double-Petition or bringing in a seventh discard spell, but I also feel like I need a break. The local's been bumping Legacy tournaments for other events somewhat frequently this winter, and I haven't had much chance to practice.

I still love storming, and by no means am I finished with the deck. I just feel like we stand or fall based on whether we can push through an often-narrow window. Decks that don't need to cast 7–10 spells in a turn often don't have that problem.

[fangzie]

I've had a lot of problems lately with people's throwing down "can't play Storm" cards lately if I haven't been able to go off by turn 2. A lot of that is probably that I'm in a metagame where everyone knows pretty much everybody else's deck choices and options, but that makes it a pretty hostile place to be storming

This definitely makes it a more hostile environment. I know we locally had a period where we had 2-3 other ANT players turning up every week and while our meta can be pretty unpredictable and wild, having this core really made some people tech for the matchup, especially as we all tend to be consistent performers. It meant things like 12-post players with 3 3-ball, 3 flusterstorm sideboards and dnt players having outs for massacre/dread of night. One cheeky SnS player even started trying to run mana maze

[Ronald Deuce]

This definitely makes it a more hostile environment. I know we locally had a period where we had 2-3 other ANT players turning up every week and while our meta can be pretty unpredictable and wild, having this core really made some people tech for the matchup, especially as we all tend to be consistent performers. It meant things like 12-post players with 3 3-ball, 3 flusterstorm sideboards and dnt players having outs for massacre/dread of night. One cheeky SnS player even started trying to run mana maze

Yeah. It doesn't even have to be a left-field card choice; the critical mass of stuff people are running makes their inevitability really hard to beat. I've Duressed into hands with triple-Flusterstorm or Therapied a hand with three separate threats a few too many times lately to want to do it again soon. If I can get into a bigger metagame, I'll dust off the deck again.

By the way, sorry I've not gotten back to you about that tournament report; I'll get to it, I swear!

[Valleysdai]

I saw a debate on social media about some people testing shadow of the grave in ANT due to its synergy with LED. What are your thoughts on it?