Speaking of living the dream, this card actually seems somewhat playable.
I'm really surprised to be hearing all this hype for the burn-bear. I'm pretty sure if we make no changes besides accommodating him, the deck will have too slow of a clock to make the shocks really count. We are in a control/midrange role most of the time after all.
For example. against elves. On a glimpse turn, will they really shock themselves to death before they hoof us?
That list with goyfs might benefit more. It could fit pretty well in actual Aggro loam as well.
DISCLAIMER: Theorycraftin only
Cons:
1) I don't want this against most combos
2) I don't think I want this against Delver... Seems slow and we are not racing them.
3) we have to use our flex slot(2nd Sylvan/Deluge) + pseudo flex slot(Deathrite Shaman/combo)
Pros:
1) I want this against fair-grindy decks
2) Sweet versus Miracles and Elves
Originally Posted by MXG
I can see one from the sideboard for specific matchups. Clock is really good and flash/haste makes it a real threat.Speaking of living the dream, this card actually seems somewhat playable.
No protection for a 5mana spell is really sketchy though.
So, this is a Cabal Pit that does not make black mana, does not kill x/2s. The upside is this card is live way faster, and does not cost life or require a black source. Also it only works as a sorcery. IDK how much that matters.
It does not kill Deathrite Shaman in one shot.
So, this is a Cabal Pit that does not make black mana, does not kill x/2s. The upside is this card is live way faster, and does not cost life or require a black source. Also it only works as a sorcery. IDK how much that matters.
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
I really want to play the 2 mana shock bear, but same as apocalypse6 i dont see him in our 4c loam deck (unfortunately). He will just eat removal, like all our other creatures, except maybe scooze. No one wants us to have an active knight/confi over several turns. The downside to the other creatures is, they can play around harsh mentor, if they dont have removal immediately.
Cabal pit is in my opinion better than the -1/-1 counter desert, because you have to use it 2 times to kill a lot of creatures you want to be dead in 1 turn. Deathrite of course, and for example against delver you dont want to use this once, then loam + use it again which is 6 mana and 2 landdrops to kill a delver and you need loam.
The 5 mana flash creature is really sweet, but against what deck you want ( to board ) him in ? Maybe shardless bug (Bug Control builds) and Maverick ?
Last edited by justarandomdude; 04-13-2017 at 10:51 AM.
If you're heading up to 5 mana, you're probably better off with Gitrog Monster or the good Sigarda.
The warrior is interesting in that she lets Knight storm out for Dark Depths combo and swing with Lage in one turn (play Knight, activate, untap, activate, use Stage, attack). That requires 6 lands/mana sources in play.
Outside of that she's not interesting to me. Dies in combat to anything substantial in Legacy (Smasher, Gurmag, Goyf, Batterskull), can't swing through most board states (same plus TNN, young Pyro, Mother of Runes). She does let you get a ton of mileage out Knight, but I feel like there's something else if you want to just untap Knight a bunch.
She and the Red Mentor might be better in Punishing Maverick. Storm out with Knight, abuse Mother of Runes, SFM in corner cases, untap Thalia to have 5 first strike damage on defense. Plus that deck is more aggro than Aggro Loam.
If the best thing about that 5drop is the knight interaction, we can get the same thing for 2 mana in Scryb Ranger.
Not killing X/2s is a huge mark against the desert, but at the same time DRS is pretty good against cards with threshold. And the upside of the desert is you can be killing people's moms, hierarchs, etc the same turn they come down.
I've been thinking about the mana base lately, and i'm starting to think that with the meta shift a swamp in the main might be good, it also helps that the mana could get better with the new cycling lands. What i mean about the meta shift is with the new big eldrazi deck, miracles will run more from the ashes, and getting another land into play could be big. Also the mono R moon decks are getting a bigger place in the meta, with the mono R sneak attack getting a lift. Having another basic in that match up might be good. Just some thoughts. I also just cut my sage, but might want that back in the 75.
It has protection from Fatal Push and Abrupt Decay! ;)
Has anyone experimented going back to the devastating dreams/burning wish package that was popular a few years ago? Maybe it's just me but the current Kronberger variant that everyone plays seems really weak to the top decks in the format. I also feel like the R walkers (Chandra and Ajani) are significantly better than Liliana currently if we need more incentive to go back to the heavier red splash of Dreams. I'm going to try to put together a list together and see how it does.
What matchups are you having trouble with exactly? If you are having that little success, the problem likely exists between chair and deck.
That's a pretty cheeky way of telling someone that they suck at the deck.
I don't thing that i'm alone as some of the other aggro loam players in the area have voiced the same concerns. The biggest problem for me now is that most of our good matchups don't really feel that good anymore. While I still think miracles is favorable preboard and postboard it's about even it's mostly the BUG decks that have been giving me problems, namely the ones that run Leovold. I think before Leo was a card the only viable BUG deck was really shardless and in my experience that was roughly even to favorable. Even d&t feels unfavorable with them incorporating palace jailers.
If you are finding yourself constantly winning against them i'd be curious what your approach to the matchup is. My issue is that our 1 for 1s aren't that effective anymore (atleast against these decks). Most of the current revisions of UBx decks basically play an infinite number of 2 for 1s and it's very hard to keep up with them in terms of CA. Food Chain and Aluren are basically unwinnable, they play enough basics such that our wastelands aren't good enough to punish the manabase.
So if everyone remembers the reason the burning wish version fell out of favor is because of TNN. The problem is it's not the days of RUG Delver and the CMC of people legacy decks vary. Chalice is def not lights out anymore, too many decay decks or decks it doesn't affect. What is a good version of the deck with burning wish? What updates from back in the day?
I tried that, and the biggest thing that came out of it is you said some pretty nasty things about me (more specifically the ppl that disagreedw/ you) as well as my opponents.
I agree with you on Aluren. I don't know what I'm doing in that matchup. Food Chain I've played once, and as long as I drew more naturalizes than they drew chains it felt fine. I wouldn't call that a very good matchup.
The rest of the bug piles have felt quite good (better than shardless). I basically navigate a Marit Lage around Wasteland and Jace and they so far have a very poor rate of stopping that. The games I lose are the ones where I fail to find removal for some big threat.
D&T felt like a near autoloss G1 and 70% favorable postboard, but Cabal Pit actually makes G1 well worth playing. 3 STP and 2 Deluge is huge. I've yet to be Jailored, but I'm able to pressure their life total in a decent chunk of games.
About 2-for-1s, I've always thought of 4CLoam as a Jack of all trades, and that necessarily means we can't beat many decks at their own game. Instead, looking at a decks weaknesses and imitating that tends to lead to success. So I really doubt out-midranging the midrange decks is what we should be doing.
I am kind of concerned about the degree to which the format has adapted to Chalice, and very few of our frequently played matchups are unlosable like before. If chalice gets any worse we might have to do a lot of rebuilding.
Yea I'm seeing that in my meta too. I'm boarding out my chalices most of the time now. What would a rebuild of this deck even look like?
It kinda hurts to think about. Everything is so well put together right now. Without Chalice we have a huge incentive to start playing 1drops and from there the deck splits off in like 20 different directions. The most conservative might be to remove library, play 3-4 chains and some plows or tops. Otherwise you pick a 1drop and build a deck to accommodate: Mom-> better Maverick, Exploration -> Jund Depths, Deathrite -> better Jund. Except we will want to play more than just the 4 we have room for.
And then at some point we will realize we don't have a good enough reason to not play brainstorm...
A good reason to not run Brainstorm is that you run a huge pile of mana sources, so the average card quality of your Brainstorms will be lower than your opponent's Brainstorms.
I used to play this deck a lot without Chalice (granted, this was four to five years ago now), and I think the real draws for not running Chalice are roughly in the following order:
1) Deathrite
2) Discard
3) Better Removal
4) Assorted Other One-Drops
You need some way to interact with the opponent outside of controlling the board, so you kind of have to supplement Chalice with discard. Discard is bad in Miracles World, though, because that deck can efficiently live off the top of its library for a long time between Brainstorm and Top. It's also of limited use against combo because you can't back it up with a reasonable clock, so eventually they just draw into another copy of whatever they need and go off.
Chalice's usefulness in the metagame waxes and wanes periodically, and this deck's fortunes go with it. That's kind of the nature of not being a blue deck: you're always in a worse position to weather metagame shifts when you're not starting your deck with the same shell of permission and cantrips.
So 4C Loam isn' t more a deck?
In my last three tournaments I' m 16-3-5 (counting two intentional draws), my only big problem was to interact with Leovold, but the deck (and the chalices) seems not too bad
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