I always want as many Pridemage as I can fit, I love the utility he provides against random. I don't mainboard decays for balance as Pridemage, GSZ for Pridemage and sword of light and shandow can all get him into play to wreck a counterbalance. He also makes the DnT matchup heavily in our favor as equipment and vials all hit the yard. He also has applications against BGx combo... i.e. Aluren and food chain, he kills blood moons for 1 Green mana(Zenith for him) and tons of other utility across many matchups.Originally Posted by NEELEY
He was much better when stone blade was better, but a creature that dodges swords and terminus, kills counterbalance and saves me against random.dec is always welcome by me.
That being said, multiples are very easily(and often are) cut when I have a reason to.
I went 3-1 Monday with my current Prelate list beating DnT, Lands and Elves, losing to Shardless with 2x mainboard Deluge...
2-0 against DnT. Prelate was cast on 1 against DnT game 1 to remove swords from both of our decks, at that point they couldn't kill my Knights and Pridemage kept their equipment off line. Game 2 prelate was set at 1 again and wound up hitting needle, relic of progenitors and graffdiggers cage that were sided in, once again knight took over from there.
Lands was a cake walk with prelate set at 2 both games.
Loss to shardless, 0-2, was due to an insane amount of varied cost removal. Strix, Push, Decay, Liliana, Deluge... all main.
Elves was a 2-1 win with Gaddock Teeg and equipment holding down the fort. Prelate was set at 2 in game 3 to stop Decay on my jitte. Teeg was already on watch for 4 drops.
I am still loving the prelates as they really have applications in most matchups.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
I think I'm going to give the multiple Prelates a shot. It sounds like it might just give a lot of random game when we would otherwise just fold.
idk if prelate is that good in the zenith builds. Let me know how it does and what slots you are playing it over.
I am not saying that Prelate is the end all be all, but I think that if the "walking chalice" is going to have a home it should be with Maverick. The only spell we play that can locked out is StP.
Current list:
Prelate Maverick
Creatures(25)
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Sanctum Prelate
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Dryad Arbor
Spells(8)
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
Things(5)
1 Sylvan Library
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Sword of LIght and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
Lands(22)
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas
3 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Bayou
4 Wasteland
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Windswept Heath
3 Misty Rainforst
Sideboard(15)
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Choke
3 Containment Priest
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Boujka Bog
1 Council's Judgement
I really want more pride mages and the fourth Thalia, but this has been working for my last 2 locals, 4-0, 3-1.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
Any reason on no scrub ranger?
What do you feel you need the ranger for? She is a 1 of utility card that has a ton of use, but nothing in specific. She untaps mom/shaman/knight all of which are amazing if we get to untap once, and she can bounce our lands to protect from wastes... but so can Knight.
She was a card that got cut to make room for Prelate who, I believe, offers more use.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
That's fair.
For me personally I have had too many games where it just does too much. I have had it sandbag Ionas with mom against reanimator. I have had it Block Delvers. I have had it with DRS do 6 damage in 2 turns to seal wins. I have had it carry equipment across stalled board states. It has protected me against wasteland. It has been able to turn 2 lands into a pseudo 3 by bouncing and replaying. It has also sandbagged opposing equipment with dryad arbor.
As you said there is no specific thing that it does in the sense that QP mage is obviously good and brought in against artifact/enchantment and cards like scooze to own the gy.
I think we are in agreement. It's a utility card with tons of use but nothing specific. For me it's flexible enough and provides so much use (even if not obvious or specific) that I feel having it as a GSZ option is too good to pass up.
I understand though how prelate is also a card that in almost any MU can come in and have a varied form of disruption. I've been toying with the idea of trying to fit 2 prelates in my current list and seeing how it goes.
Last edited by Luthiereisfun; 04-22-2017 at 03:00 AM.
Agreed.
Another thing: In years of playing GSZ decks with Ranger in them, I don't think I can remember more than a handful of times where I used a GSZ on him. Obviously, you fetch him more than I do...:/
I feel like all of the instances that you said are very valid, but few and far between. His best, and most frequent, use is blocking delvers, but we have zero problem with delver matchups. After delver combat, I would say picking up an equipment and swinging is his second most common use... but again, in our worst matchups (Show and Tell, Miracles, Storm) there aren't many blockers.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
Okay I'm almost stunned at how you talk about scryb ranger. This card is amazing and having no access to a flyer is CRAZY. I mean you aren't even playing 4 Thalia!? I will just leave it at this, you are cutting the wrong cards to add prelate, I mean 3 stoneforge over the 4th Thalia. This could all be your meta game and I'm sorry if it is. I would never take this list to an open field. Sorry if I sound harsh, I'm just shocked at the list.
What surprises me the most is the decision on what lands to play. You're playing more white spells than usual, with triple Prelate and a Gideon in the main, but you've upped the number of forests. You're also playing a Scrubland, but decided on 3x Misty Rainforest over Verdant Catacombs. The decisions on what spells to play might be based on a meta-game that is different to what we're used to, but the lands just strikes me as odd.
I have to agree with NEELEY regarding Scryb Ranger and would cut the Gideon for it, as well as a Stoneforge for the fourth Thalia.
I would also make these changes to the land base:
+1 Plains
-1 Forest
+2 Cavern of Souls (I usually play one anyway, but the Prelates are the 13-15th Humans in the list)
-1 Gaea's Cradle (since i don't have one)
-1 Horizon Canopy
+2 Verdant Catacombs
+2 Marsh Flats
-3 Misty Rainforest
-1 Savannah
For a complete list: https://deckbox.org/sets/1681537
Thanks for the advice on the mana base, I think I just threw together the lands when I resleeved my BG Rock list and never really looked at the fetches and duals. I will switch the fetch/dual situation to something more reliable but I can't cut the cradle and Canopy for 2 caverns just yet as I always want knight to have something relevant to fetch. I have been looking at Cavern, but with GSZ for zero, turn 1 Deathrite Shaman, Teeg, Pridemage, Scooze, Mystic all being early plays, I did not want to add a land that can't pay for them all. I want to find room for a Cavern or two it just hasn't been a priority yet.
With Scryb Ranger: I have agreed she is a very good card in Maverick lists, but I do not feel she has much value in the matchups that I am trying to focus on. Scryb is at her best in fair matchups, which we are already favored in between Knight/Mom/Mystic and therefor I cut her to try and improve problem matchups with the addition of Prelate.
Thalia is also good, but she is not an end all lock piece like she can be in death and taxes, where they have vial/port/Wasteland to further stress the mana base. I find Thalia to be just as valuable as Stoneforge Mystic, so I play 3 of each.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
Which match-ups specifically are you trying to focus on? I feel that in most unfair match-ups scryb ranger often acts as a way to double wasteland opponents with knight to lock them out of the game. Additionally cutting thalia for another stoneforge seems like cutting a card that's at its best in the unfair match-ups for a card that is at its best in fair match-ups. However I have wanted to find a way to add another stoneforge, as two sometimes feels a bit light.
What's your list? I pretty much run the neeley list but took out a noble h for SFM #3 and swapped a forest for a cavern of souls
I never cut a Thalia for a stoneforge, I cut a Thalia for a Sanctum Prelate. I have always played 3 Stoneforge and 3 equipment. That gives my unfair matchup 3 Thalia/3 Prelate/1 Teeg to deal with, if I wanted the 4th Thalia I would find another card to cut, possibly a Knight.
As for the matchups I am looking at: Miracles, Show and Tell, and Storm and Scryb is not the best card in those matchups. Please don't bring up corner cases where you blocked an angel token to survive at 1 and win on the crack back, or walled a griselbrand with a mom/ranger and they whiffed on drawing gas, here are few and far between.
Against miracles, mom/Teeg/prelate is game, not the easiest thing to pull off but prelate on 1 also slows them down considerably with prelate on 1 and Teeg being practically gg.
Show and tell: prelate on 3, knight for karakas, Thalia to slow them down are all very real and very proactive ways to win the game.
Storm: Thalia, prelate on 1,2,4, Teeg are all wins.
Stoneforge us for fair matchups, ones where you will have time to establish a board and get an active Scryb ranger.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
This is the current list I'm playing:
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Scrubland
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
4 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
Creatures
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Sylvan Library
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
Sideboard:
2 Containment Priest
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Choke
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Zealous Persecution
3 Thoughtseize
2 Pithing Needle
I'm not intending on bringing up corner cases. I was originally a doubter of scryb ranger, when I first started playing the deck the card on paper just didn't seem all that amazing and I was playing a goyf in its place as a tutorable beatstick. I actually thought goyf was pretty good too, however I decided to test out scryb ranger. The first night I played it I remember making lots of mistakes like forgetting to use it to generate an extra mana, or I would cast gsz to get a scooze or a random pridemage and then realize how much better it would have been to get the ranger. I have not cut it since and damn does it pull it's weight. Of course as you mentioned there are the insane corner case scenarios that come up with it, but the thing is a tool of versatility. The most common things I have used it for have been:
- generating an extra mana
- generating an extra two mana with a deathrite, hierarch, or a knight
- double wastelanding with a knight in play
- Swinging in the air with equipment on a stalled board
- Killing jace's like a champ
The card is a great tool in our toolbox and it's one of the few cards that is often both good when we're ahead and when we're behind. I agree she isn't at her best against the three match-ups you listed, but she's rarely a dead card and is often valuable even in those match ups.
How have you liked having both knights and prelate in your deck? I've been tempted to test prelate, in the past I've just never been a fan of that many three drops.
I love drawing Scryb Ranger against all 3 of those matchups--albeit I never tutor for it in those matchups.
Against Miracles, having a flash creature you can cast at end of turn after a terminus is fantastic, as well as being able to to protect your Dryad Arbor from Swords to Plowshares is also really strong. Not to mention how much damage Scryb+Deathrite Shaman does per turn.
Against storm, the lock is fairly easy--keep Gaddock Teeg alive. With Teeg out you simply turn off their deck--unless they use spot removal at end of turn. This is what Mother of Runes is usually used for. However, you are not guaranteed Gaddock Teeg, and in those cases you lean on Thalia. Scryb Ranger works better with Thalia than Mother of Runes does versus storm because Scryb allows you to keep plains out of the battlefield. By only using Savannah as your "plains" you can bounce it back to your hand to combat Massacre. Getting instant speed untaps with Mother of Runes is also useful.
Sneak and Show--having Mom+Scryb turn off 3/8 to 1/2 of their win conditions is fantastic. It allows you to put emphasis and focus on stopping the emrakul/Wish plans.
This is kind of the type of magical Christmas land scenarios I was talking about and trying to avoid. In the vast majority of games against these three decks... Scryb Ranger is not ideal. I will say that having a flash creature to bring in after a terminus is good(as I have stated in the past flash creatures are good against miracles), but it is a 1/1 1-of and not a main strategy against miracles. Even in these scenarios, many things have had to happen for Scryb to be good.
Miracles: No counterbalance on 2, Dryad Arbor hasn't been terminus-ed away, you have an active deathrite through terminus/swords/snapcaster/counterbalance
Sneak and Show: They showed in a griselbrand and whiffed on their draw 7/14, they didn't know you were GW and out in an Emrukul and you put in a Knight to stall the game, they then didn't have the sneak attack follow up
Storm: you already have hatebears on the board and are trying to now play around massacre, wastelanding/knighting away your plains also works, you didn't die turn 0-1-2, you went mom-thalia-scryb ranger?
To start I believe that the Depths/Stage combo is win more, as it means you have an active Knight of the Reliquary.
Scryb ranger is good, but none of the points you mentioned matter in a Miracles/Show/Combo match-up. Scryb requires you to have an actual good card active to get any benefit, which is durdly in the combo match-up or overextending in the Miracles match-up. If stalled boards and grindy match ups were the issue here, I would be pushing for Scryb Ranger, but we do not have problems with the current mid range decks in the format. We generally have good match ups against Grixis Delver, BUG/Team America/Shardless/Leovold/whatever, Death and Taxes and random decks. Adjusting the flavors of equipment is meta specific and can help any fair matchup issues that we are having i.e. Body and Mind against TNN even though i prefer Fire and Ice and Light and Shadow to go with a jitte. Scryb Ranger is a good "gotcha" card against all of these match-ups resetting a Mom/Knight/Shaman can easily help us out grind other fair decks.
I love having more 3 drops as it helps the turn 1 dork, turn 2 3 drop plan. If miracles doesnt have the turn 1 top, then a turn 2 then a Prelate on 1 is game breaking, turn 2 knight is good against fair decks and turn 2 scooze/teeg is good against yard and combo decks obviously.
I also wish I had room for a 2nd Pridemage but I had to cut somewhere.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
I think what makes Scryb Ranger so good is the unexpected factor it brings to a game. Given that, the matchups where it shines is against non-linear strategies where incremental advantage is key.
Although I believe @lavafrogg has questionable choices in his list and despite Scryb Ranger occasionally being selectively good, I completely agree with his above remarks toward said card.
Scryb Ranger is a card that does very little on its own. That's the reason I tend to shy away from its inclusion. I respectfully disagree with @beardstorm about the "surprise factor". I think @lavafrog is correct about Scryb doing little to boost matchups this deck needs help with. Unlike @TMagpie, I think Scryb is garbage against Miracles, Storm, and Sneak.
What makes Scryb great? 2 things:
1- Your deck contains a critical mass of creatures with "~ taps to do a helpful activated ability". Mainstream lists only really depend upon mom, knight, and drs/noble. If creatures are turning sideways, it's generally to attack. I don't think that's enough. Look back at older Viciano Vial-based lists. I believe his inclusion of weathered wayfarer made a difference in how Scryb impacted the deck.
2 - Flying over a stalled boardstate with equipment. I find this to be a corner-case, but it does stand out as being different in comparison to #1.
***
IMO, I find Mirran Crusader, Prelate, Thalia 2.0, and additional 2 drops many of the recently posted lists are skimping on > Scryb. I honestly feel the deck gets worse with time, despite better card choices. Whatever sick G or W cards come out, the other colors and archtypes gain something even better. Nevertheless, the deck can win. You just need to make optimal choices. I feel Scryb isn't one of them unless you're pushing an activated abilities matter gameplan.
You're overlooking one of Scryb Ranger's most useful abilities: Generating extra mana when you're missing land drops/have mana dorks in play. You get a ton of mileage out of this ability even in matchups where you wouldn't think it matters. I remember one game vs Storm I was choked on mana, but was able to make all the mana I needed with Scryb Ranger and even play around Massacre while doing it by bouncing my Savannah.
Maverick is a toolbox and synergy based strategy, so it naturally has some cards that are situational and underpowered on their own. Scryb Ranger is one such card, but it enables such a critical mass of interactions that I find it incredibly useful in many situations where no other card could perform the same role. Its not a "win-more" card, because winning with this strategy is predicated on locking out the opponent with an overwhelming board state (this is why Miracles, a deck with one-mana instant speed Wrath of God is fundamentally problematic for Maverick).
I agree with TMagpie that Scryb Ranger is good in the Miracles matchup since Flash lets you play around Terminus and Pro-Blue is important vs Jace and their Blue creatures. Beardstorm also brings up the unexpected factor, which may be cheesy, but is certainly relevant. Even when I used to play an English Scryb Ranger, people constantly misplayed around it on board and lost games as a result.
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