[Deck] 12 Post

[Loxmatii]

the end of era... yeah

totally new ways to build 12 post, in my point of view

eh =(

[maCHOOga]

4/24/2017. The day miracles died...and 12post too.

[Cyborg]

Sylvan Library, Mirri's Guile moving on nothing changed.

[TheBoozeCube]

Losing Top isn't the end of the world. I cut Top from my Cg list over a year ago. We still have plenty of excellent card-selection options.

The biggest blow is just losing a Miracles-heavy metagame. And I'm concerned about a rise in combo as a result.


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[hymnyou]

Losing Top isn't the end of the world. I cut Top from my Cg list over a year ago. We still have plenty of excellent card-selection options.

The biggest blow is just losing a Miracles-heavy metagame. And I'm concerned about a rise in combo as a result.


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Agreed. I'm also concerned about blood moon decks though. CG should be ok depending on meta change, but UG took a heavy hit either way.

[treesgobark]

So anyway, let's get down to business. Where do we go from here? Is Mono-Green the path we'll take? Maybe implement Dark Depths, maybe try to be a faster deck like modern tron? Or maybe go in a more MUD kind of direction. I'm not a veteran of this deck so I'd just like to hear people's thoughts on what direction we go. Or if someone has something they'd like others to test, throw it out there.

[Cyborg]

This is my mono green list adjusted for top ban. Thinking a combo/aggro heavy meta game with an increase in wasteland nonsense.

Main
1x Bojuka Bog
4x Cloudpost
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Eye of Ugin
6x Forest
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Glimmerpost
1x Karakas
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4x Vesuva
3x Misty Rainforest

2x Candelabra of Tawnos
3x Expedition Map
3x Pithing Needle

4x Crop Rotation
4x Green Sun's Zenith

1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1x Oracle of Mul Daya
4x Primeval Titan
3x Sakura-Tribe Elder
3x Walking Ballista

1x Sylvan Library
1x Mirri's Guile

1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

side
1x All Is Dust
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Krosan Grip
3x Mindbreak Trap
3x Moment's Peace
1x Reclamation Sage
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Walking Ballista

[TheBoozeCube]

So anyway, let's get down to business. Where do we go from here? Is Mono-Green the path we'll take? Maybe implement Dark Depths, maybe try to be a faster deck like modern tron? Or maybe go in a more MUD kind of direction. I'm not a veteran of this deck so I'd just like to hear people's thoughts on what direction we go. Or if someone has something they'd like others to test, throw it out there.

I recommended Colorless Green. The only thing it really loses is Miracles for free wins. I cut my Tops a long time ago and haven't missed them. Here's my current list:

Creatures:4
2 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Spells:28
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Crop Rotation
4 Expedition Map
3 Pithing Needle
1 Spatial Contortion
4 Warping Wail
2 All Is Dust
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Lands:28
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
7 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Glimmerpost
1 Karakas
2 Maze of Ith
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Thespian's Stage
4 Vesuva
1 Wastes

Sideboard:15
1 Silent Arbiter
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Spatial Contortion
3 Sphere of Resistance
3 Krosan Grip
1 Trinisphere
1 Dark Depths



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[HomicidalRambo]

Whelp had great success with nissa this weekend was going to shed some light. That took a huge hit. I can try to make it work without top but most likely a waste of time. It was the key card to u/g. Also, our best match up Will be way down. It was a fun run, but I just don't see it working anymore. Gc is ok but for u/g for repeal tricks to draw 2 and then look at 3 etc deck is done. Discard can wreck u now and no more hiding counter magic. Sad day...the colorless eldrazi with anti combo most likely the way to go now. If someone finds a way to make u/g purr without it lemme know. Otherwise, best of luck guys.

[hymnyou]

What are peoples thoughts on Soothsaying for UG? Personally I think UG may want to go stirrings route going more colorless to replace top.
CG seems like it will be fine, theboozecube was running lists without. I was running 3 tops, may replace with Guile but still working it out. Library is sketchy with the amount of incoming leovolds.

[Razorking]

1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
1 Emrakul, the Promised End
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Maze of Ith
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Karakas
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Pithing Needle
4 Vesuva
7 Forest
4 Ancient Stirrings
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Crop Rotation
4 Expedition Map
2 Trinisphere
4 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Conduit of Ruin
2 tangle wire

4 Leyline of the void
2 Moment’s peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Krosan Grip
1 Pithing Needle
1 Warping Wail



Here is my current list post top ban. I am running tangle and 3 ball for combo deckhand h8. I think i will be fine cuz i can coast against the 3/4 color control and tangle wire is great against delver decks. I refuse to drop green for more lock pieces and MUD esque things. Crop rotation is great and ancient stirrings allows for the perfect response to any situation. Multiple tangles is also fantastic.

I want to change a Krosaan grip to a more efficient piece of chalice on 1/ blood moon removal. I am scared of non blue prison decks and would like suggestions for non one drop artifact/enchantment removal. HALP PLZ

I also probably want some amount of cursed totem for elves h8. HALP

[Rock Lee]

I want to change a Krosaan grip to a more efficient piece of chalice on 1/ blood moon removal. I am scared of non blue prison decks and would like suggestions for non one drop artifact/enchantment removal. HALP PLZ

I also probably want some amount of cursed totem for elves h8. HALP

Nature's claim is your 1 drop artifact/enchantment removal. EE if need be. seal of primordium also works here sometimes.

elves hate in Cg is best in cursed totem + ugin's, but really warping wail is your best bet to buy time.

[TheBoozeCube]

Nature's claim is your 1 drop artifact/enchantment removal. EE if need be. seal of primordium also works here sometimes.

elves hate in Cg is best in cursed totem + ugin's, but really warping wail is your best bet to buy time.

Agree 100% on Warping Wail. In fact, I had cut my Tops to make room for the full playset. It's consistently overperformed for me.

It does pretty much everything you could want: spot removal for 75% of the most commonly played creatures in the format, countering key spells vs combo (like Natural Order, for example), countering discard, surprise chump blocker, answer to Lili -2, quasi-Surgical for Bridge from Below. It's a veritable Swiss Army Knife.


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[Leshrac82]

My first thoughts on the new situation: Obviously the ban hits us hard, not because we lose Top (Boozecube is not the only one who cut it, in my last versions i replaced it with Sylvan Library in my Midrange version too, because that worked better in that specific build), but because we lose Miracles. And it's very possible the new meta will be more hostile to us than just the old meta without Miracles would have been, most decks winning from this ban are probably not very great matchups.

So, there is a real chance this deck is dead. But that's not sure, depending on how the meta eventually turns out we might be able to adjust - but probably things will need to change, just replacing Top and moving on won't cut it, and what exactly needs to change we will see.

(I played a few games on xmage today after i didn't do that for a long time, just to get a better feeling for the metagame again, my usual testing doesn't work without any information about the metagame.)

One question everybody should ask: What cards that might see play in 12post are better now?
I think Dark Depths should probably be included in every list now. I played that already, but overall Miracles was one of the few matchups where i really didn't want it at all, now it's much better.
The same goes for Knight of the Reliquary - i don't think anybody else tried it, but it got better now, because Miracles is probably its worst matchup. In general, a creature heavy strategy could work much better.

I think my midrange build got better compared to some other more extreme ramp builds (but it still got worse overall, Miracles was still a 70%+ matchup for me). I don't have a list ready, i'm trying something with Chalice maindeck now, because that's possible with my build and i expect more fast combo and Delver decks, with Chalice maindeck i'm pretty sure this beats most of these. It's worse against Stompy decks however, but i don't thik Eldrazi will be a big part of the new meta (and Blood Moon isn't the biggest problem with 4 Mox Diamond). Anyway, i think that general idea (Mox Diamonds for early acceleration and some cheaper creatures like Knight of the Reliquary and Tireless Tracker) is something to explore if other builds don't work any more.

[Rock Lee]

My first real list since the Top news is something my teammate Jeff Carpenter has been tinkering with for days as a means of destroying me at local events. The deck is completely untouched by the top changes and fights the decks being held back by top's miracle dominance magnificently. Here's his, and now my, list that I did great with locally:

// Lands
4 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [MR] Cloudpost
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 [MPR] Wasteland
1 [JGC] Karakas
1 [KLD] Inventors' Fair
3 [MM] Rishadan Port
1 [V12] Maze of Ith
2 [MR] Blinkmoth Well
4 [EXP] Ancient Tomb

// Creatures
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 [AER] Walking Ballista
1 [EMN] Emrakul, the Promised End
4 [UD] Metalworker
3 [WWK] Lodestone Golem
1 [KLD] Metalwork Colossus
1 [OGW] Endbringer

// Spells
4 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
4 [EX] Sphere of Resistance
4 [U] Winter Orb
3 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
4 [ZEN] Expedition Map

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [WWK] Lodestone Golem
SB: 1 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 4 [OGW] Warping Wail
SB: 4 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 [NPH] Dismember
SB: 3 [MMA] Faerie Macabre

[TheBoozeCube]

My first real list since the Top news is something my teammate Jeff Carpenter has been tinkering with for days as a means of destroying me at local events. The deck is completely untouched by the top changes and fights the decks being held back by top's miracle dominance magnificently. Here's his, and now my, list that I did great with locally:

// Lands
4 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [MR] Cloudpost
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 [MPR] Wasteland
1 [JGC] Karakas
1 [KLD] Inventors' Fair
3 [MM] Rishadan Port
1 [V12] Maze of Ith
2 [MR] Blinkmoth Well
4 [EXP] Ancient Tomb

// Creatures
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 [AER] Walking Ballista
1 [EMN] Emrakul, the Promised End
4 [UD] Metalworker
3 [WWK] Lodestone Golem
1 [KLD] Metalwork Colossus
1 [OGW] Endbringer

// Spells
4 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
4 [EX] Sphere of Resistance
4 [U] Winter Orb
3 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
4 [ZEN] Expedition Map

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [WWK] Lodestone Golem
SB: 1 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 4 [OGW] Warping Wail
SB: 4 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 [NPH] Dismember
SB: 3 [MMA] Faerie Macabre

Intriguing list. What is the Blinkmoth Well for? Just Winter Orb or is it offensive too?


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[TheBoozeCube]

One question everybody should ask: What cards that might see play in 12post are better now?

1) Ratchet Bomb. There's a decent chance RUG Delver comes back, so a cheap way to take out 1-2 drops gets better. It also excels at killing Chalices and isn't terrible at Blood Moon, both of which I expect to see more of.

2) Spatial Contortion. It kills Magus of the Moon, which may see a resurgence. I run a 1-of Wastes for exactly this purpose. And it kills most Elves, even with a lord in play.

3) Warping Wail. If you're not playing UG, this gives you countermagic against most of the combo decks that will take advantage of Miracles's absence.

4) Dark Depths. I agree that this got much better without Miracles. I'll have to see what the meta becomes before moving mine main, but the option for the super-fast clock is definitely relevant if we have to fight more combo.


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[MechTactical]

Sad day indeed. I guess I'm too late to bitch about the ban? Nah: those pigs just wrecked the most interesting deck in the format - UG post! god damn assholes. Top was one of the most intriguing and iconic cards in the format. It represented the power level that should exist in Legacy. Miracles & slow play cannot be an excuse for this travesty.

...moving on...

Do we have to play "prison MUD post" now? Is there no hope for UG?

[Rock Lee]

Sad day indeed. I guess I'm too late to bitch about the ban? Nah: those pigs just wrecked the most interesting deck in the format - UG post! god damn assholes. Top was one of the most intriguing and iconic cards in the format. It represented the power level that should exist in Legacy. Miracles & slow play cannot be an excuse for this travesty.

...moving on...

Do we have to play "prison MUD post" now? Is there no hope for UG?

I'm experimenting with some really interesting variants of RuG post and GR post and UG post. fear not, once the post-miracles meta appears, a build will appear. But since this deck has ALWAYS been a counter-meta deck (zoo then stoneblade then miracles), we need for a meta to actually appear before cementing "the build" for 12post. The deck is certainly not gone though, I simply had that prison build pre-made and it took zero hits from the top banning.

[Zotmaster]

I'm experimenting with some really interesting variants of RuG post and GR post and UG post. fear not, once the post-miracles meta appears, a build will appear. But since this deck has ALWAYS been a counter-meta deck (zoo then stoneblade then miracles), we need for a meta to actually appear before cementing "the build" for 12post. The deck is certainly not gone though, I simply had that prison build pre-made and it took zero hits from the top banning.

Your list definitely gave me some new ideas. I'm also considering jumping into white, as I think the combination of removal and prison effects might go a long way.