It's like every new starcraft 2 expansion: When the expansion hits, there's a bunch of aggressive all-in builds (combo decks) that seem impossible to stop because nobody knows how the meta will settle, then people realize how fragile the builds are, and how to defend it (adjust sideboard) and suddenly it's not unstoppable anymore.Originally Posted by Pilhas
I would say Aggro Loam/Maverick > "fair" combo (ANT sytle). If you have at least 1-2 untap steps jam Thalia, chalice (on 0 in worst case) and try to get Teeg.
After boarding it usually gets even better.
It's combo > Loam/Maverick whenever it's T1 "do you have force of will?" style. But honest ANT players fear Thalia, Teeg and Chalice.
I think Maverick gets better now. Mom seems strong without Terminus. Yet, elves is a horrible Mav MU but a reasonable Loam MU.
However, if Nic Fit style decks rise... Maverick is better dealing with that.
Hard to say right now.
I need some Input fast :D MKM series next weekend!
Sounds reasonable, but I don't think I agree with any of that, not in my experience at least.
ANT can go off turn 2 easily, especially once they see you're not running blue. For Loam you can get Chalice T1 and get there with that (except for Burning Wish - Shattering Spree), but still not a given. Maverick needs to win the die roll and then have turn 2 Thalia, and hope they don't die anyway. Game 2 and 3 they bring in countermeasures, so your Turn 2 Thalia/Teeg turns into Abrupt Decay your 1 hate bear, kill you.
Nic Fit is a terrible matchup for Loam and Maverick. Deeds for your entire board, your punishing fire doesn't do anything, no disruption to stop Explorer from landing, you're not fast enough to kill them before they accelerate into the late game. You can still stop them on the pure awkwardness of the deck though, with stuff like Chalice to get under Explorer or Pridemage to discourage open Deeds if they don't have a marquee opening.
I think discard and board wipes (Golgari, Deluge) out of the board will be strong. The control decks can't play off of the top anymore and Combo will be everywhere. Not sure if Thoughtseize or Hymns will be better. I'm interested if Leyline of the Void is better than Surgical right now. The Goyf version of Loam might be a bit stronger if everyone goes for BUG Midrange.
I'm actually really interested in Destructive Flow but likely not here.
Hm, maybe I was lucky in the past, but I'm sure my combo MU is positive.
But we will see how the meta adopts. Right now we only can guess.
I've played Flow before, but you really have to be sure the opponent has 0-1 basics, because the card hits us pretty hard as well.
I really like my chances against ANT. If you are willing to mull to 5, your chances of getting a Chalice are 72.7%, and the chances of getting Chalice or Mox is 93.2% (mox hands have a decent chance for 2 mana disruption) Then there is the chances of acceleration into Zenith for Teeg. Not sure what the numbers are on that, but its pretty good. Even if the chalice only delays them by a couple of turns, that allows all of the supplemental disruption to turn on. and I'm not even rly talking about postboard.
My plan against Nic Fit is to turbo out Lage. Depending on the build, even if they see it they often can't stop it. Last night I played against Sneak Fit and 2-0ed him both times with Marit Lage. If they can deal with knight, I agree the matchup is rly unpleasant tho.
Edit: Also, it is far form obvious to me to cut second Library. If for no other reason than "colorless library" just got banned, but more srsly because it digs towards answers against combo, and wins games against fair decks.
I agree on keeping 2 Libraries.
Do you people put out Chalice on 1 or 0 against ANT? I know it's different depending on TES or ANT...feel like ANT might be better to hit them on 1, and TES on 0.
I think 1 is better against both (to turn off cantripping into answers) but against TES you have less time, so you play it if you have it. The real goal against both is Teeg, so you are looking primarily to buy time to Zenith/Libaray/Bob into Teeg. I thiink if I have chalice on the play against ANT (and no other disruption) its fine to wait that extra turn. Curious to see how others play it tho.
For both storm variants I just jam chalice on zero if I'm on the play because I'm just afraid to just die right then and there and it seems to work out, but that probably just confirmation bias talking. On the draw I'll usually do it on one
For nic fit I feel unfavored but I don't run the DD combo.
If my opponent has not made any play yet i put it on 1. Else, if he has already casted some Brainstorm then on 0. You always have to take that educated guess on what his hands looks like. What would Hurt him the most on that moment, is what i am asking myself. Sometimes they will preamptive drop led to avoid Chalice 0. If the game takes long enough, then Chalice on 2 can also Hurt a lot. Btw i always board Golgari Charm in case of Empty the Warrens. And Deluge if i am sure they have it.
Edit: Also they sometimes just cast stuff even while Chalice will counter it for storm, or just to poke if we forgot it.
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
Yeah, Golgari Charm is sneaky useful against ANT. More than once I've used it to regenerate Gaddock Teeg when he eats an Abrupt Decay.
I've always gone with chalice on 1 first and then chalice on 0 if it's game one. Chalice on 1 is just so much more back breaking I think it's worth risking getting blown out by a heavy LED/Petal hand, even if it's turn 2 on the draw. In sideboarded games, I'm always torn between whether the second chalice should be for 0 or just 1 again to hedge against Decay.
From nothing came teeth.
@MatsOle: Is Vindicate really better than Pulse? I mean, Vindicate hits a land but despite that Pulse is better. Also green is more in our colors than white. I'm really interested in the reason why you play Vindicate over Pulse.
Regeneration is such a fantastic mode, i've had people read the card multiple times after pulling a trick like that.
I'll usually try to play either a chalice on 1 or chalice on 0 if I can't play a chalice on 1 early enough. Postboard a chalice for 1 usually stops them from digging if they kept a hand without hate. Sometimes they just have the mono 2 drop hand or the hand that goes off without any petals/leds but what can you do?
From my experience ANT is reasonable, Chalice on one is usually where I want to be - you really do need pressure though, they can get there off 0 drops and Cabal Rituals alone.
Chrome Moxen make it interesting though, for TES and Belcher where you have less time, jamming on 0 can do some work while you dig for your Teeg.
I will definitely be sticking to two libraries for the time being, I'll also be moving to Dark Depths until the meta settles a little.
I play Loams sometimes.
It's better in your bad matchups and worse in your good matchups.
Hi guys, without miracles maybe we need to do some changes, i was thinking about play only 1 sylvan library and maybe move gaddock tegg to sideboard, thougs about that?
As of right now, I think teeg should stay in the main. Storm and elves is rampant online right now, but adjust for local meta of course. As for library I'm torn, on one hand its slow, but on the other hand this deck does have consistency issues.
I always played with only 1 sylvan library, so thats fine for me. We just donīt have enough space in the main/sideboard to play all cards we want to. Even more now, where we maybe want to play a sweeper in the main. More basics because of the bloodmoon decks, maybe the combo to be faster etc...
About Teeg, he needs to stay in the deck. Against elves and storm (ant,tes) he is a really good card. Elves canīt go for zenith/order so only normal draws except a glimpse. If you have a chalice he has to draw natural rec. sage. And game 1 against storm is a 99,9% auto win.
Is speed really the criticism for library? IMO Bob is slower. They both do nothing for a turn, and then library sees more cards. Library is also more likely to survive.
Also, the last time we talked about the number of libraries was at the top of this very page. Just saying "hey how about 1" again doesn't add anything that wasn't said a couple days ago. Of course anyone can play anything they want, but the goal of having a legit discussion is to have good reasons for why certain decisions are made. Bringing up speed for example gives us an actual tangible metric to compare/evaluate
You know now that I think about it, I don't think speed is really an issue. Since most people are talking about replacing it with a sweeper in the main I got to thinking about how are the matchups we need that sweeper against pre-board. How much help is a singleton sweeper gonna do against TNN or elves vs library. You might kill a bunch of elves, but they rebuild pretty quick. You might kill a TNN or two but then what.
Library and loam helps dig for pfire against elves and helps us be proactive and develope our game plan against TNN and I think that more important than one sweeper.
The thing about Bob is that it presents a clock against combo while searching for lock pieces....
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