Miracle Control

[drocker23]

Can someone explain the interaction with scroll rack and life from the loam?

[Noctalor]

Can someone explain the interaction with scroll rack and life from the loam?

Cast loam on 3 lands
Activate rack, putting the 3 lands back on top, drawing 3 fresh cards
Next turn dredge 3 with loam, you are gonna dredge the 3 lands

Repeat

[H]

Soothsaying once it is in play is too mana intensive for it to be useful. Paying 3 mana for Soothsaying is much worse than paying a single mana for Top. At least with Scroll Rack the mana efficiency is still there, provided, you set it up via cards in hand.

CalebD was streaming a Legacy League last night with Topless Miracles () with Soothsaying.

Soothsaying was pretty terrible from what I saw, but obviously you will win some number of games just off the fact that most of the cards in the deck are still idividually good.

You can watch that portion of the stream here.

[Poron]

Soothsaying is so mana consuming it hurts to even think about it.

[Ghost588]

Instead of Entreat, do you think this is the time for thopter/combo to come back? With decay not being around as much thought it might be an okay option.

[NetterMizuno]

Im curious what would you guys think of something like this.

As Miracles Foretold

Sorcery (10)
1x Council's Judgment
1x Entreat the Angels
3x Ponder
3x Restore Balance
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Terminus

Planeswalker (2)
2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Instant (16)
3x Brainstorm
3x Counterspell
4x Force of Will
2x Spell Snare
4x Swords to Plowshares

Enchantment (5)
3x As Foretold
2x Back to Basics

Land (21)
4x Flooded Strand
6x Island
5x Plains
4x Polluted Delta
2x Tundra

Creature (6)
3x Snapcaster Mage
3x Spell Queller

Edit: i love the idea of thopter/sword as the poster before me did mention it so it could work here as 3/2 or even just 2/1 split like minus entreat and 1 queller 1 snare Plus 2 foundry and sword

Bored at work let me brainstorm this so all you miracle masters what are your toughts.

[Ghost588]

^^ Thank you!

This is just an idea. With the influx of BGX decks I think we run as few creatures as possible to make push, decay, bolt worthless. Now that decay should see less play I do like the thopter combo again and with Academy Ruins.

Thopter Foundry x3
Sword of the Meek x2
FoW x4
StP x4
Brainstrom x4
Ponder x3
Snapcaster x4
JtMS x2
Supreme Verict x1
Moat x1
Dragonlord Ojutai x2 (could be V clique or anything else)
Counterspell x3
Terminus x1
Sudden Demise x1
EE X1
E Tutor x2 (could go down to 1 and run a moon main?)

Granted this could be changed if we wanted to go more towards a standstill route.
Academy Ruins + EE could be a thing again.
Sudden Demise is a card I’ve used before and I enjoyed it. Easy board wipe.
If we are worried about an influx of land decks we could run 2 Moons main or B2B.

No matter which way we go, we won’t be “miracles”. I’m not sure if we created a very heavy control shell with Nahiri if that would be worth it or like a UW Standstill deck like in vintage.

[Poron]

2x Crucible to give it inevitability

Transmute Artifact to get Ensnaring Bridge or Crucible or Sword of the Meek

E.E. to make Academy Ruins just unfair.

The perfect shell for this is the Intuition+Loam one
Loam, Academy, E.E/Chalice whatever...

too slow for the format anyway.

[claulis]

So I was just brainstorming/brewin yesterday about some possible instant speed scry-ish effects to replace top to keep counterbalance still relevant.

Here are a couple of options I found and wondering what everyone thinks. Some give some additional value and some are just the scry effect.

Opt
Lose Hope
Condescend
Lim-Dûl's Vault
Natural Selection
Telling Time
Trickery Charm

Maybe these are bad ideas but maybe not, have to try them out. I like trickery Charm because its 4 cards vs 3 or less and has some other value besides just the reordering the top of your library.

[jdmdave]

I think it boils down to opt (doesn't dig deep enough) vs portent (sorcery) vs mystic speculation (sorcery, mana intensive) vs preordain (sorcery)

[icedagger]

How about Mirri's Guile? It at least sticks around and gives you some filtering. Might need to cut the red splash for a green one though.

[Pelikanudo]

I am a Storm player, and few times Miracles player. All I can say is that the best card in this deck was SDT, you can try to add cards which replace SDT to try to make Miracles a viable option, however this is a great mistake.

[klaus]

I'm with Parcher. Miracles will survive.
Here's a first draft off the top of my head:

4 BS
4 Ponder
4 Preordain

4 SCM
4 MM

3 Jace

4 FoW
3 CS
2 Snare

4 STP
2 SV
2 Terminus
1 CJ
(40)

8 Fetches
4 Tundra
6 Island
2 Plains

SB:
2 Clique
2 Fluster
2 Spell Pierce
2 Disenchant
3 S. Extraction
1 Terminus
2 BeB
1 EA

Some thoughts:
* The red splash is no longer needed, since REB will be less relevant
* 19 land is sufficient (even with 3 Jace, and 2 SV), since Preordain fixes land-light hands better than Top. Also straight UW allows to fetch for basics.
* 4 SCM to max out BSs for Terminus, EA, and Predict
* Might need 1 more counter in the MD
* Vedalken Shackles might be an option now that Disenchant effects will recede
* In a more general perspective: "downgraded" Miracles will face considerably less dedicated Miracles hate, due to its downfall.

[decan]

From a competitive standpoint there is absolute no reason to play miracles.
You can make terminus or supreme verdict work, you will beat all the creature decks. However the real problem are the combo decks (even elves).
With top you had a reliable countertop lock and most importantly one could hide a fow from discard. now all of these options are gone. This makes u lose g1 much more often vs combo.
Having creatures like canonist as hate cards also is far from optimal, in a sweeper deck.

There could be a playable version of miracles. but if u guys want to win tournaments, play something different and stop wasting time.

[Poron]

your deck is a mere UW Mentor.

Add Stoneforge and TNN for more fun, change StP for Bolt and you're there

[FZA]

Playing 1-2 copies of Terminus in an otherwise generic UW control list doesn't seem overly crazy to me, as long as you have the cantrips to support it. I've seen UR Delver lists in the past running Thunderous Wrath with only Brainstorm and Ponder to set it up.

Counterbalance and Predict are unplayable now though, so a new UW deck would need an alternate source of card advantage. Besides Standstill I can't really think of a one.

[Hanni]

Counterbalance and Predict are unplayable now though, so a new UW deck would need an alternate source of card advantage. Besides Standstill I can't really think of a one.

Stoneforge Mystic, 1-2 copies of Painful Truths, Tasigur, 3-4 JTMS.

[ScottW]

Stoneforge Mystic, 1-2 copies of Painful Truths, Tasigur, 3-4 JTMS.

Loam

[Hanni]

Loam

There are more synergistic piles if you want to play Loam, though. Loam and Scroll Rack is cool, but if start going that route, you'll end up with a completely different deck by the time you're done. See The Mind Harvester.

[ScottW]

There are more synergistic piles if you want to play Loam, though. Loam and Scroll Rack is cool, but if start going that route, you'll end up with a completely different deck by the time you're done. See The Mind Harvester.

I wasn't thinking Loam / Rack. More like Exploration and then load up on Terminus and Entreat and play some cycle lands, Noxious Revival, and a few SCM. I played it a bit last night and it was pretty wild making a ton of Angels and wraths. I also played Mox Diamond.