[Deck] Vial Goblins

[Sockosensei]

Sorry, I should have been clearer but I was writing in a rush.

With Lands' presence expected to increase, I was curious about Settler's value in that specific matchup. I'd hoped to draw on your overall experience facing Lands, not this one tournament. Despite playing both decks, I haven't gotten to play the matchup often.

I imagine that we need to rush them early before they set up, and having a tutorable Strip Mine seems valuable. Then again, perhaps Settler's value across the meta is so low that we're better off hoping to steal game 1 vs Lands with Vial+Stingscourger on a Marit Lage and Blood Moons post-board?

[ScatmanX]

Sorry, I should have been clearer but I was writing in a rush.

With Lands' presence expected to increase, I was curious about Settler's value in that specific matchup. I'd hoped to draw on your overall experience facing Lands, not this one tournament. Despite playing both decks, I haven't gotten to play the matchup often.

I imagine that we need to rush them early before they set up, and having a tutorable Strip Mine seems valuable. Then again, perhaps Settler's value across the meta is so low that we're better off hoping to steal game 1 vs Lands with Vial+Stingscourger on a Marit Lage and Blood Moons post-board?

From he amount of Settler I played, which isn't actually all that much, I think that it is a good card against Lands, but it's not all that awesome. The situation where you connect with Lackey, to drop a Matron, to search for a Settler, to next turn connect again to drop it, is really rare. If it is in your opening then yeah, awesome, but that's quite rare, and running more than 1 is nonsense. Also, it's not a complete blowout. It buys you a turn, and that's it. Usually is better to go for something that would increase your clock, or Sting if you have Vial out.
Our SB cards are very good against them, even if not tutorable. Blood Moons and Needles for Thespian Stage are great against all lands, and Surgical can be quite good against Control Lands.
Another thing is, that with the meta shift that you mentioned, I think Settler is just getting worse. Delver and Shaman decks everywhere make it laughable, and midrange don't care much about him. And then there's combo.
So in short, no, I don't think Settler has a space in the 75 for the time being.

[egoblinsw]

@egoblinsw

Nice job with your finish! There are 2 things that I'm curious about with your decklist.

1. Your removal suite (Gempalm, Tarfire, Weirding, and Pyrokinesis) seems slightly odd to me, since without any real 2 drops other than the 2 piledrivers, how are you killing things early on? Without Mogg War Marshal to power up Gempalm, it seems like Tarfire would be a bit better on average, or at least warrant a 3-2 split in either direction between the two.

2. How was weirding? Is 3 really necessary? I've done some testing with it before and was never impressed, but I'd be happy to be wrong.

1) I sometimes wish incinerator was tarfire, but drawing a card is so good! As far as pushing a t1 lackey through, weir ding usually just as good as tarfire.
2) some of my preference for weirding comes from my local meta. It is excellent against Merrill and reanimator, and very good vs infect
I am considering swapping 1 weirding 1 incinerator for 1 tarfire 1 sparksmith

[jrw1985]

Sparksmith is a champ. Settler is pretty bad.

I'm still predicting a combo explosion in the short term, so I'm not overvaluing Tarfire just yet.

Edit: most recent tcdeck results. Combo a-plenty.
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=23048

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[menph]

I'm still predicting a combo explosion in the short term, so I'm not overvaluing Tarfire just yet.

Edit: most recent tcdeck results. Combo a-plenty.
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=23048

the combo hype seems pretty real atm
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=15371&f=LE

[egoblinsw]

Played 4 rounds last night, GW 12-Post, Colorless 12-Post w/ voltaic key/basalt monolith, All-in-Red, Infect.

AiR was pretty straightforward, he's banking on blood moon, chalice, trinisphere, none of which slowed me down much, as he never landed a T1 Trinisphere.

GW Post, set up settler/Kiki off of T1 Lackey, T2 Lackey game 1. Game 2 took apart his hand with thoughtsieze, and 3 rishaden ports. Had wasteland for glacial chasm.

Colorless Post, he won a very drawn out G2, eventually tutoring up some fatties with eye of ugin ftw. G2 and 3 I had very fast lackey starts backed up with tuk-tuk and multiple wastelands.

Infect, I had perfect lackey+matron+removal hand both games, opponent mulled both games and didn't find enough protection.

Pretty straightforward 4-0.

I used settler to great effect in both post matches and infect. Not sure we should bench him yet. If you're playing a classic list with Kiki as one of your finishers, then he goes from wasteland on a stick to stripmine+Crucible. I wouldn't play him without kiki, but I also love kiki, so it's not hard.

[mistercakes]

i love goblin settler, were you running an instigator list? kiki-jiki and goblin settler lets you play little kid magic. isn't that where we all want to be?

[egoblinsw]

i love goblin settler, were you running an instigator list? kiki-jiki and goblin settler lets you play little kid magic. isn't that where we all want to be?

I am not playing instigator. You can see my list about a page back, it's the one with the SCG Worcester Tournament report. I'm playing a less agro, more grindy list, splashing black for Warren Weirding and discard spells in the sideboard.

[mistercakes]

Ah ok. I see it now. I used to run a similar list except I didn't have war chiefs or piledrivers (it wasn't my brainchild, but I enjoyed playing it).

I like playing a pretty aggressive winstigator list now that is RW so I can drop white hate cards on turn 1/2.

I'm happy to see sparksmith is seeing some play again. I used to love that guy in the old onslaught /Mirrodin standard bidding deck.

[ToadFlinger]

Yo, I'm not a pro or anything, but here is my report from last Friday. I was hoping to cast Pyrokinesis and blast people out of the game, and I did do some of that. I took out my 3 Piledrivers and put 2 Pyrokinesis into the main from the side. Some of the side is garbage because I couldn't figure out what I should've put in out of the cards I had with me, and because I'm not that good at building sideboards.

// MD
12 Mountain
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Wasteland
2 Pendelhaven
3 Chrome Mox
4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Warren Instigator
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Chieftain
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Tarfire
2 Pyrokinesis
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
2 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
//SB
2 Pithing Needle
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Stingscourger
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Pyrokinesis
4 Blood Moon

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/138783784 Round 2 around 59:00, Round 4 around 2:32:00
Round 1 - U/R Delver (2-0)
Game 1 - I keep a hand with 1 land, 2 Lackeys, 1 Prospector, and some other stuff. I don't remember the details, but I end up with all 4 Lackeys that game and enough lands. He never stood a chance.
-1 Lackey -3Tarfire +1 Pyrokinesis +3 CotV (I should've boarded out the Sharpshooter)
Game 2 - I keep a hand of 3 Mountains, 2 Caverns, 1 Matron, and I think 1 Pyrokinesis. He gets out a Swiftspear an a Lavamancer, I Pyrokinesis around turn 3. I had the other 2 Pyrokinesis in hand by the time I won. I misplayed though, as I had Matroned for a Chieftain and cast it, when I should've wasted one of his two lands to keep him from Fireblasting me.

Round 2 - Elves (0-2)
Game 1 - It ends with my 3 Chieftains and 1 Winstigator sitting there sideways while a NO Craterhoof and his elven friends spit in my mouth.
-1 Tarfire -2 Krenko -1 Scrapper +1 Pyrokinesis +2 Pithing Needle +3 CotV (I should replace Relics with Cages)
Game 2 - I keep a hand with Chalice, Tarfire, and Sharpshooter. I go mountain pass, he goes turn 1 Deathrite, and I misplay by not Tarfiring it. Whoops. Chalice only slows him, and his one-of Pendelhaven looks at sharpshooter with a smug grin. He goes NO Craterhoof with lethal. I misplayed again, as Sharpshooter could've killed another creature. Whoops.

Round 3 - ANT (2-1)
Game 1 - I swing with goblins and he does nothing. I thought he was playing Grixis Delver, because he just casts cantrips all game. His psychological warfare works, and I end up boarding incorrectly.
-3 Tarfire -2 Lackey -1 Scrapper +4 Blood Moon +1 Pyrokinesis +1 Stingscourger
Game 2 - His horrible game 1 lead to his game 2 win. Whoops
-4 Blood Moon -1 Stingscourger -3 Pyrokinesis +1 Tarfire +3 CotV +2 Relic +2 Lackey
I keep a hand with Relic, Chalice, Lackey, Cavern, Wasteland, and 2 other cards. I go Relic pass. He goes Probe, Therapy naming Chalice. I laugh, saying I'll just topdeck another. I do.

Round 4 - Infect (1-2)
Game 1 - I keep a one-lander with 2 Lackeys, Vial, Tarfire. I misplay by trying to Tarfire his Glistener before I swing on my turn. He pumps it up. I pass, don't block it and get got. Whoops.
-3 Tarfire -1 Scrapper -1 Krenko -1 Aether Vial +1 Pyrokinesis +3 CotV +2 Blood Moon
Game 2 - I go turn 1 Lackey. He Forces my turn 2 Chalice. He then plays a dude. I Gempalm the dude and hit again with Lackey. Later, he goes endstep Crop Rotation Ink-Moth, but he doesn't have enough mana for Vines into Berserk on the Ink-Moth.
Game 3 - I mulligan a hand with 2 lands, Prospector, Chieftain, Sharpshooter, and other good cards. I mulligan down to a 4 card Chalice hand. I get the turn 2 Chalice and start winning after I Pyrokinesis his board. I should've Wasted his Trop while I had the chance, because he ends up Gripping my Chalice. Whoops, I could've prevented that. He ends up playing a Blighted Agent, and I still don't Waste any of his Trops. Vines into Berserk gets me. Big whoops all night.

Conclusion: I need Pyrokinesis more often. Whether that's my bad play or my bad deckbuilding also needs to be found out. I might want to take out a Tarfire, as I had stepped on my own feet with Chalice out. The two Krenkos didn't make a difference, so I still don't know if it's worth it. Kiki-Jiki continues to be an allstar when I get it. Pyrokinesis was really good, but I played really bad. I really need to practice more matchups, because Berserk lines could've been prevented and I hate Elves.

[1GoblinLackey]

Yo, I'm not a pro or anything, but here is my report from last Friday. I was hoping to cast Pyrokinesis and blast people out of the game, and I did do some of that. I took out my 3 Piledrivers and put 2 Pyrokinesis into the main from the side. Some of the side is garbage because I couldn't figure out what I should've put in out of the cards I had with me, and because I'm not that good at building sideboards.

// MD
12 Mountain
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Wasteland
2 Pendelhaven
3 Chrome Mox
4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Warren Instigator
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Chieftain
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Tarfire
2 Pyrokinesis
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
2 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
//SB
2 Pithing Needle
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Stingscourger
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Pyrokinesis
4 Blood Moon

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/138783784 Round 2 around 59:00, Round 4 around 2:32:00
Round 1 - U/R Delver (2-0)
Game 1 - I keep a hand with 1 land, 2 Lackeys, 1 Prospector, and some other stuff. I don't remember the details, but I end up with all 4 Lackeys that game and enough lands. He never stood a chance.
-1 Lackey -3Tarfire +1 Pyrokinesis +3 CotV (I should've boarded out the Sharpshooter)
Game 2 - I keep a hand of 3 Mountains, 2 Caverns, 1 Matron, and I think 1 Pyrokinesis. He gets out a Swiftspear an a Lavamancer, I Pyrokinesis around turn 3. I had the other 2 Pyrokinesis in hand by the time I won. I misplayed though, as I had Matroned for a Chieftain and cast it, when I should've wasted one of his two lands to keep him from Fireblasting me.

Round 2 - Elves (0-2)
Game 1 - It ends with my 3 Chieftains and 1 Winstigator sitting there sideways while a NO Craterhoof and his elven friends spit in my mouth.
-1 Tarfire -2 Krenko -1 Scrapper +1 Pyrokinesis +2 Pithing Needle +3 CotV (I should replace Relics with Cages)
Game 2 - I keep a hand with Chalice, Tarfire, and Sharpshooter. I go mountain pass, he goes turn 1 Deathrite, and I misplay by not Tarfiring it. Whoops. Chalice only slows him, and his one-of Pendelhaven looks at sharpshooter with a smug grin. He goes NO Craterhoof with lethal. I misplayed again, as Sharpshooter could've killed another creature. Whoops.

Round 3 - ANT (2-1)
Game 1 - I swing with goblins and he does nothing. I thought he was playing Grixis Delver, because he just casts cantrips all game. His psychological warfare works, and I end up boarding incorrectly.
-3 Tarfire -2 Lackey -1 Scrapper +4 Blood Moon +1 Pyrokinesis +1 Stingscourger
Game 2 - His horrible game 1 lead to his game 2 win. Whoops
-4 Blood Moon -1 Stingscourger -3 Pyrokinesis +1 Tarfire +3 CotV +2 Relic +2 Lackey
I keep a hand with Relic, Chalice, Lackey, Cavern, Wasteland, and 2 other cards. I go Relic pass. He goes Probe, Therapy naming Chalice. I laugh, saying I'll just topdeck another. I do.

Round 4 - Infect (1-2)
Game 1 - I keep a one-lander with 2 Lackeys, Vial, Tarfire. I misplay by trying to Tarfire his Glistener before I swing on my turn. He pumps it up. I pass, don't block it and get got. Whoops.
-3 Tarfire -1 Scrapper -1 Krenko -1 Aether Vial +1 Pyrokinesis +3 CotV +2 Blood Moon
Game 2 - I go turn 1 Lackey. He Forces my turn 2 Chalice. He then plays a dude. I Gempalm the dude and hit again with Lackey. Later, he goes endstep Crop Rotation Ink-Moth, but he doesn't have enough mana for Vines into Berserk on the Ink-Moth.
Game 3 - I mulligan a hand with 2 lands, Prospector, Chieftain, Sharpshooter, and other good cards. I mulligan down to a 4 card Chalice hand. I get the turn 2 Chalice and start winning after I Pyrokinesis his board. I should've Wasted his Trop while I had the chance, because he ends up Gripping my Chalice. Whoops, I could've prevented that. He ends up playing a Blighted Agent, and I still don't Waste any of his Trops. Vines into Berserk gets me. Big whoops all night.

Conclusion: I need Pyrokinesis more often. Whether that's my bad play or my bad deckbuilding also needs to be found out. I might want to take out a Tarfire, as I had stepped on my own feet with Chalice out. The two Krenkos didn't make a difference, so I still don't know if it's worth it. Kiki-Jiki continues to be an allstar when I get it. Pyrokinesis was really good, but I played really bad. I really need to practice more matchups, because Berserk lines could've been prevented and I hate Elves.

Hey there,

It looks to me like you could benefit from shaving the prospector for another Gempalm. I generally don't like Prospector in the Instigator lists since you have less random dudes to sac to it like Mogg War Marshal. More gempalms makes up for the all the card disadvantage of 2 Pyro and 3 chrome moxen.

Your boarding perplexes me a bit: Boarding out removal against decks where you want every bit possible (Elves, UR Delver, and Infect) seems really weird. I'm guessing you did it to avoid the non-bo with Chalice, but if you have chalice on board against those decks already, you're probably winning anyway (except elves, where they'll kill the chalice for you, letting you cast any tarfires stuck in your hand).

You might be better off with 2 siege-gangs instead of 2 Krenkos in the current meta, or maindecking a stingscourger. As it is, your list has no out to a resolved fatty like Griselbrand or Emrakul, so having access to it game 1 might be nice.

[Olaf Forkbeard]

You might be better off with 2 siege-gangs instead of 2 Krenkos in the current meta, or maindecking a stingscourger. As it is, your list has no out to a resolved fatty like Griselbrand or Emrakul, so having access to it game 1 might be nice.

Especially with Fatal Push getting popular.

[egoblinsw]

Especially with Fatal Push getting popular.

Also, Siege-Gang can help us fight through Elves, Infect, and DRS. If you have 1 removal spell to push through your lackey, then Siege-Gang shocks for days.

[menph]

hi there mogg fanatics!

i want to share with you the list that i'm running from a week or so, that i find very sweet.

as the primer says about Ancient Tomb "ramp is ramp" right? so i decided to try it and..wow!
basically the deck is the classic build, mono R, running 3x Chrome Mox, 3x MD Magus of the Moon and a 2-2 split between Rishadan Port and Ancient Tomb.
So the deck run 5 speed mana sources without cutting any actual Red mana source, being able to drop an early Magus or speeding our classic gameplan a lot.

4 wasteland
4 cavern of souls
2 ancient tomb
2 rishadan port
8 montain

3 chrome mox
4 aether vial

4 lackey
4 matron
4 ringleader

3 warchief
3 magus of the moon
2 chieftain
2 piledriver
2 MWM

1 tuktuk scrapper
1 sharpshooter
2 siegegang

3 gempalm incinerator
2 tarifre


SB
3 chalice of the void
2 blood moon
3 pyrokinesis
1 goblin sharpshooter
1 tuktuk scrapper
1 stingscourger
1 sudden demise
1 relic of progenitus
2 faerie macabre

i wasn't sure about it in the first place but it seems working very well.
tnx to moxen and tombs the mana could be really fast. i mean: T2 Ringleader or T3 SGC anyone?

i would like to find room for the 4th gempalm in order to recover moxen (and pyrokinesis) card loss, and also would be great atm to run a 2nd stingscourger in MD due to the popularity of fatties-combo decks.

it's wierd to play non-goblin creatures in our deck, i wasn't used to it and it's not great some times, but Magus is too strong right now!
as movingtonewao suggested in the previous page i'm also trying to cut the 3rd Warchief in favor of 1x Goblin King since he can create a great value out of a late-landed Magus. anyway i never succeeded in using this synergy yet. a 3rd chieftain would probably be better than the 3rd warchief here since the mana-cost reduction is less relevant than pimping up the horde (tnx to tombs and moxen).

as per sideboard choices it's basically my old SB, but with the fast mana of this version it's really better than before.
i'm running chalices because i own them while i don't have thorn, but they'd probabily be fine.
i think GY hate works here since i'm both able to play chalice@1 and remove things with Fearies, or remove everything with Relic


atm i tested vs BUG delver, 4c loam, d&t and UR delver and the deck worked very well, so i think i'll fire it for a while.


EDIT looks like Wr D&T players are also looking at the 2-2 split between ports and ancient tombs right now

[dissy]

Hi fellow goblin players
I play the classic BR list
http://docker2.deckedbuilder.com:3001/d/295304

A couple of questions
- Is Warren Weirding good enough to play maindeck now with rise of reanimator and Sneak and show decks?
- Anyone ever tried maindecking Sudden Demise know elves is gering bigger and so is D&T or is pyrokinesis still better.
- With the rise of combo decks i think piledrivers have a spot in the maindeck again

Thx in advance!

[egoblinsw]

Hi fellow goblin players
I play the classic BR list
http://docker2.deckedbuilder.com:3001/d/295304

A couple of questions
- Is Warren Weirding good enough to play maindeck now with rise of reanimator and Sneak and show decks?
- Anyone ever tried maindecking Sudden Demise know elves is gering bigger and so is D&T or is pyrokinesis still better.
- With the rise of combo decks i think piledrivers have a spot in the maindeck again

Thx in advance!

I play 2 Weirding main, and it's been great for me. It still kills a DRS or other blocker for our lackey on T2, so I find it's a fairly good sub for tarfire most of the time.
I haven't played with Sudden Demise, I like Pyrokinesis because it's instant speed leads to big blowouts, but I can see SD being OK. What I don't like is that it doesn't push our Lackey through DRS etc. on T2.
I play 2 Piledriver main, and it feels about right. Seeing more than 1 is rarely what I want, even against many combo decks.

[brainteaser]

Hey guys

do you think it's worth a shot to run 2-3 cabal therapy main against all the combo match ups out there?

[jrw1985]

Hey guys

do you think it's worth a shot to run 2-3 cabal therapy main against all the combo match ups out there?

I think a blind CT G1 is pretty bad. So no, it's not worth the shot. But I'm the guy trying to jam Chalice in the MD: take my advice with a grain of salt.

[brainteaser]

I think a blind CT G1 is pretty bad. So no, it's not worth the shot. But I'm the guy trying to jam Chalice in the MD: take my advice with a grain of salt.

I thought about chalice as well but i don't like it to much cos we are not able to cast it T1, at least not frequently depends on the build, and if its down we have a nonbo going with oure vials, tarfire and without cavern lacky as well.

But i agree with u that CT is not realy good when played into the dark.

A other card i think could help out in the combo match up is warping wail. That own is even good as T2 removel to help lacky hit the face.

[menph]

I thought about chalice as well but i don't like it to much cos we are not able to cast it T1, at least not frequently depends on the build, and if its down we have a nonbo going with oure vials, tarfire and without cavern lacky as well.

i'm still playing 3xChalice in SB, but i agree with you. even if my build is able to play it T1 many times, i don't like it very much for the reasons you mentioned.
even if it blocks all the 1 drops in the world, sometimes i died to an unanswered gurmag angler feeded with cc1 intentionally countered spells

thorn would be more effective probably since it tax all nonCr spells (not only cc1 or cc2) while allowing us to still playing ours. so thalia could be a great option as always.
my main concern about her is that i think fast mana is nearly necessary atm and i'm not sure if a Rw manabase + moxen could work properly

has anybody already tried Rw manabase + moxen?
maybe something like this?

4 wasteland
4 cavern of souls
4 rishadan port
3 montain
5 R fetch
1 plateau
2 chrome mox