[Deck] Death and Taxes

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Is it worth it to go 1/1 split on the Recruiters? Just curious because I'm finding that I REALLY want an effect like Kor Skyfisher. Protecting a Sword/Jitte or to make them waste Jitte counters and removal, non-legendary bounce, non-Karakas bounce (PKN/Flickerwisp). Delver blocks for 1W seems super also.

As far as the red splash goes, can't you get your double red easily off magus?

Edit: I'm debating dropping a Cavern for a Plateau, putting my list to a 2/2 split. The second non-creature red source dedication opened up the idea of 2x Lightning Bolt in the sideboard. It was posted a page or 2 back, and I dismissed it fairly quickly. Now, I'm unsure, since I dislike using Blood Moon effects while giving them basics. It also gives reach. My problem is that it's possibly a dead card due to mana, and it's not board pressure. Anyone have arguments/actual experience with this situation?

[DarthVicious]

Just curious because I'm finding that I REALLY want an effect like Kor Skyfisher.

Stonecloaker is an option, however it doesn't bounce noncreatures in exchange for other additional utility on top of those Delver blocks, saving creatures from removal, saving Mangara from himself, etc.

I'm considering some number of Ancient Tomb in my mono list also, though I forget how the testing with that idea went.

[iatee]

I'm debating dropping a Cavern for a Plateau, putting my list to a 2/2 split. The second non-creature red source dedication opened up the idea of 2x Lightning Bolt in the sideboard. It was posted a page or 2 back, and I dismissed it fairly quickly. Now, I'm unsure, since I dislike using Blood Moon effects while giving them basics. It also gives reach. My problem is that it's possibly a dead card due to mana, and it's not board pressure. Anyone have arguments/actual experience with this situation?

I've tried Lightning Bolts before, I think they're not really what you want to be doing. I like Path a lot better if you need to up your removal. Small creature decks are generally Wasteland decks, so you really don't want to have to fetch Plateau t1 to kill a Mom or Delver. One of the few upsides Bolt had was that it could, in theory, kill a Jace, and now there will be fewer theoretical Jaces to theoretically bolt (it never actually happened.)

[LegacyIsAnEternalFormat]

how did the testing with Renegade Rallier go? the day it was spoiled i predicted it would be a great addition to the gw deck, was i right?

[iatee]

It's a splash 3 drop that gives you a Wasteland when there's a splash 3 drop that gives you a Blood Moon.

[Marungo]

I'm definitely sticking with mono white. I hate splashing. That being said, what does everyone think of boarding or dropping Sword of Fire and Ice for another creature? I know it's just a good equipment but it was best vs. Miracles and otherwise was at best the second equipment we tutor up.

[geneyquakes]

I'm definitely sticking with mono white. I hate splashing. That being said, what does everyone think of boarding or dropping Sword of Fire and Ice for another creature? I know it's just a good equipment but it was best vs. Miracles and otherwise was at best the second equipment we tutor up.

I definitely loved Sword against Miracles so it may have dropped off a bit, but it is still the best Sword on raw power level and I like having that option. In particular, if you are sticking with mono-white you will (I am assuming) have more Mirran Crusader and Serra Avenger slots than people who are splashing. These two are very, very good with Swords. An extra option outside of Jitte that is easily castable without Stoneforge is also good to have access to. I am not opposed to keeping other swords in mind, but with less Miracles War and Peace has dropped a lot in value, and the other swords may have relevant protection colors but the abilities are more lower impact.

[Marungo]

I definitely loved Sword against Miracles so it may have dropped off a bit, but it is still the best Sword on raw power level and I like having that option. In particular, if you are sticking with mono-white you will (I am assuming) have more Mirran Crusader and Serra Avenger slots than people who are splashing. These two are very, very good with Swords. An extra option outside of Jitte that is easily castable without Stoneforge is also good to have access to. I am not opposed to keeping other swords in mind, but with less Miracles War and Peace has dropped a lot in value, and the other swords may have relevant protection colors but the abilities are more lower impact.

Oh don't get me wrong it's Fire and Ice or nothing. I actually am struggling to find room for avenger currently but I want to don't get me wrong. Overall I just question the necessity of the sword anymore but we will see more in the coming days

[Medea_]

I don't think SoFaI is cuttable. It's generically good and is important against TNN

I 4-0'd with a list one card off from DisgruntledElk's list from the previous page. Red splash felt great. I beat Burn, Bomberman, Merfolk, and Elves.

[geneyquakes]

4 Wasteland
3 Rishadan Port
3 Ghost Quarter
3 Flooded Strand
2 Windswepth Heath
3 Plains
2 Plateau
3 Karakas

4 Mom
4 Thalia
4 Stoneforge
3 Flickerwisp
2 Revoker
2 Magus of the Moon
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Sanctum Prelate

4 Vial
4 StP
1 Batterskull
1 SoFI
1 Jitte

2 Sudden Demise
2 Council's Judgement
2 Path to Exile
2 Rest in Peace
1 Canonist
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Leonin Relic Warder
1 Cunning Sparkmage
1 Pia and Kiran
1 Containment Priest

So this is what I have been playing around with. I still need to test it out way more but I like a lot of it in theory. I had been playing with Caverns before, but I wanted to add Sudden Demise so I bumped up the natural red count. Seven is still low, but I also wanted to try out Ghost Quarter. The 4-3-3 Waste-Port-GQ split is admittedly very arbitrary and it is really pushing it on the colorless sources. I think less than 4 Wastelands is insanity, and Port is still very important, buy I want to draw GQ early and often enough that I get a feel for how it plays. I played this 75 a bit last night to mixed results. I am going to run it in a few longer events and jam testing games over the weekend to get a better idea.

The deck felt quite good against UWr Mentor, even though Magus was pretty irrelevant. GQ wasn't an extra Waste, but it was able to take them off of Red post board, cutting off some their artifact hate. Spirit of the Labyrinth was very good against their 12 cantrips plus Jace strategy.

I got crushed by elves (surprise!), but they had very resilient turn three kills and my sideboard cards didn't come up or were too slow.

I lost a pretty close 1-2 match in the DnT mirror. Opponent was on mono-white. I got stuck on lands and out-Jitted. Lack of Serra Avenger hurt, as they were faster and bigger in the air, so the Jitte advantage snowballed quickly.

Overall the sideboard and lands were pretty sub-optimal for these specific matches, but I want to try them in a bigger range of matchups to get some better information.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the splash gets worse if Delver lists start running Stifle, right? Like if UR Delver starts seeing a lot of play, it's kinda just back to mono-white, yeah?

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[gh0st_b1rd]

Just practice vs Stifle Delvers. Stifle is a skill testing card for both sides and is something everybody in Legacy has to learn how to deal with.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

It's one of my favorite cards to play, and I've had several times where it plus wasteland won me the game. It's why I worry about it.

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[gh0st_b1rd]

Unless they lead with a DRS it is often hard for them to maintain holding a mana for Stifle. Could always bait Stifles with SFMs and Recruiters. Generally for me, it's always been the other way around.

[colo]

@oopsmissedtrigger
I think it's Colo that plays both. He plays a three cavern build and splashes one or two of each. I don't think something like a Badlands is going to be playable; even the mono-white version is hurting on white sources.

FTR, this is my current list - the Sideboard isn't tweaked to the new/upcoming Metagame at my LGS yet, but I already made some changes to take on what I _think_ will become more prevalent. Most notable change is going all-in on Faerie Macabre over Surgical Extraction, since the splash damage aspect of being able to extract Terminus doesn't seem relevant to me any more. With this exact mainboard list, I'm 11-0-1 in matches (not games) over the last three tournaments I attended at my LGS when playing D&T.


4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Flickerwisp
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
4 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Stonecloaker
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Palace Jailer
1 Orzhov Pontiff

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 AEther Vial
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte

9 Plains
3 Karakas
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
3 Cavern of Souls


SB: 2 Rest in Peace
SB: 2 Faerie Macabre
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Council's Judgment
SB: 1 Containment Priest
SB: 2 Orzhov Pontiff
SB: 2 Sanctum Prelate
SB: 1 Mirran Crusader
SB: 1 Apostle's Blessing

[RobNC]

Even without fetchlands, we have so many targets for Stifle (SFM, Vial, ETB triggers) that I don't think it's too much of a worry. You have so many different things to be doing that them holding up Stifle mana can actually help you stay ahead.

[DarthVicious]

I'm definitely sticking with mono white. I hate splashing. That being said, what does everyone think of boarding or dropping Sword of Fire and Ice for another creature? I know it's just a good equipment but it was best vs. Miracles and otherwise was at best the second equipment we tutor up.

I've been sticking with mono white for some time now and love it. Then again, I'm also running Godsend to fight TNN/Leo/Eldrazi and it's especially good on an Avenger. One equip I'm testing soon also is Necropouncer. +3 power and haste with all our fliers and an equip of seems good.

I've been unhappy with swords of X&Y for a long time and finally decided to cut them. Maybe they'll get better if Decay numbers drop with Miracles gone now, who knows.

[Medea_]

I cannot under any circumstances believe that Necropouncer is better than SoFaI. The last thing I want in my deck is a dead-weight, 6 drop, non-creature spell. I don't even love Batterskull at this point, and that has much more utility. Godsend is more reasonable, but its awkward mana cost and 3 equip cost are two strikes against it. I did a quick search with scg's database and mtgtop8, and that Godsend has never ended up in a Legacy deck with results. I'm willing to entertain all sorts of thoughts, but you're really going to have to work to convince me that either of those cards are good.

[DarthVicious]

I cannot under any circumstances believe that Necropouncer is better than SoFaI. The last thing I want in my deck is a dead-weight, 6 drop, non-creature spell. I don't even love Batterskull at this point, and that has much more utility. Godsend is more reasonable, but its awkward mana cost and 3 equip cost are two strikes against it. I did a quick search with scg's database and mtgtop8, and that Godsend has never ended up in a Legacy deck with results. I'm willing to entertain all sorts of thoughts, but you're really going to have to work to convince me that either of those cards are good.

Yes, it's six mana to cast. But we have Stoneforge. It also comes with a body. Godsend allows you to attack or block regardless what's on the table, but I'll agree it does feel awkward sometimes. Worst case, its something your opponent can and must answer. Unanswered it dominates combat and presents an uphill battle for the opponent.

[colo]

I can get behind Godsend in theory, since it is another angle for interacting with True-Name Nemesis on the ground - but a 6-Mana, 1-Toughness Living Weapon equipment just won't cut it in this format. There's plenty of better equipment available in its stead.