3-Mana Fractured Powerstone would be a bad card in basically every single matchup. Remember that you have no card that costs more than 4 so it's strictly worse than a land in every situation. (And in many spots in this deck it is slightly worse, e.g. Disk kills it, doesn't interact with Crucible, gets countered by Nether Void etc)Originally Posted by Fjaulnir
Serum Powder gives you the following scenarios (this discussion assumes you are looking at a 7 card hand but it applies at any point in the mulligan process).
a) GOOD: You have a bad combination of 6 other cards plus Serum Powder. Serum Powder gives you a free mulligan.
b) BAD: You have a good combination of 6 other cards plus Serum Powder. You like all the cards in your hand except Powder. Either you keep (effectively 6 cards because Powder doesn't do anything) or you get another random 7 cards
The reason why e.g. Vintage Dredge plays Serum Powder (or at least has played it in the past, I don't keep up with vintage) is because
1) Situation 'a' happens a lot when 'a bad combination of 6 other cards' roughly translates to 'any combination of cards without Bazaar of Baghdad in it'
2) You don't care about situation 'b' because Bazaar is so strong (and your gameplan revolves around discarding your hand, so you don't care about the loss of card advantage of having a dead Powder in your hand)
In Pox what I anticipate by playing Powder is:
I) Situation 'a' happens a non-zero amount, but many times only by virtue of the fact you have Serum Powder in your hand and therefore the amount of playable cards to consider in the rest of your hand has decreased (e.g. You have 1 land 5 Nonlands and Serum Powder: While you are glad to have Serum Powder in this instance it is a bit of a Red Herring because this would likely be an acceptable hand if Serum Powder was just another land instead)
II) Because the power level of cards in this deck is relatively even it does not seem likely that in situation 'b' you have many hands where "This 6-cards-plus-blank is better than an average 7, I will choose not to use Serum Powder" ends up happening.
Therefore by putting Serum Powder in your deck you would (mostly) end up indiscriminately using it every time it's in your opener and just diluting your deck with blank topdecks. The premier complaint about this deck from a broader strategic perspective is 'I have stripped my opponents resources but they end up topdecking their way out of it before I can end the game'. Suggesting the replacement of what is potentially a 5/5 attacker for just a mana rock therefore seems quite poor to me.
I agree that Phyrexian Totem doesn't look very good on paper but there are other options you could consider instead, you don't necessarily need a card that taps for mana, especially when you have no card costing more than 4 and your deck already has 27 lands in it.
Yeah I can agree with anything you posted really :-) it was worth a shot I guess
hmm..27 lands seems a lot especially when you're also running 4 rituals..i'd probably cut a land, most likely the Sanitarium to free up a slot..
Very vulnerable to blood moon.
"Pox early, Pox often, and Pox hard!" - Le_Lepreux
With cutting maindeck Chains (with miracles gone & the format speeding up a few turns on average), I've replaced Sanitarium with Sea Gate Oracle already as allowing your opponent to filter as well is just meh...
I know some people here said it did nothing when I mentioned it some months(?) ago, but for me it's been gas every time I had it. Got to draw 4-5 extra cards against RUG Delver yesterday, admittedly that's a good matchup already but it's still able to seal that game without leaving anything to luck.
I'll probably end up with a hybridisation of the above and this:
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=6384&d=236777&f=LE
which was the list I was playing before the Japanese duy's list started drawing my interest (but with 4 fetches + Top for Tombstalker synergy, over 4 swamps + 1 of the Scrolls)
So a first step would probably indeed be -1 land (-1 Chains) for +2 Trinisphere, with Combo being dominant for the time being since the banning of Miracles.
Bitterblossoms in the SB can go now tooand adding a 2nd Tabernacle in the SB against elves/dnt/belcher/whatnot
I'll probably playtest this the next 10 days for a tournament early May:
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Pit
1 Maze of Ith
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Polluted Delta (?)
1 Sea Gate Oracle
8 Swamp
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
1 Beseech the Queen
4 Dark Ritual
2 Hymn to Tourach
3 Innocent Blood
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Smallpox
4 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Cursed Scroll
1 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Nether Void
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
2 Phyrexian Totem
1 Trinisphere
SIDEBOARD
1 Damnation (?)
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Faerie Macabre
2 Lost Legacy
1 Necropolis Fiend
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Phyrexian Obliterator (? not yet sure; Tombstalker seems good too as an extra nondecayable target)
2 Pithing Needle
3 Surgical Extraction
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Trinisphere
i'm glad you did mention it (and it was also in a japanese list iirc)
i am trying to get a 4 chains/anvil of bogardan list to work and 2 Geier Reach Sanitarium lets me go down to 2 anvils.
So, the thing about cutting chains is that it wasn't actually there for the miracles matchup. It helps more (in my experience) vs the bug decks (shardless and leovold) and the combo decks, such as storm and whoever wants to cheat in griselbrand. I would want it vs. elves before I sleeved it vs. miracles. I have minimal problem out advantaging people with cursed scroll, crucible, and Liliana, but that may need to change in light of where the meta is going.
Slightly unrelated note: if you're playing crucible, I absolutely recommend trying a cabal pit. It locks elves/d&t the same way you wasteland lock delver and has fantastic utility against shardless/delver decks too.
If you run enough colorless sources for sea-gate wreckage, I don't hate a couple copies of warping wail in the sb. It does quite a bit more than people expect. It has relevant modes in most matchups (kills drs very well, kills anything out of d&t, counters the turn 2 potential of sneak and show, counters a tutor out of storm or basically any of the reanimate spells, you get the picture) you don't want more than 1-2, since they're a little rough to draw later, but I'd recommend giving it a shot.
Great losses often bring only a numb shock. To truly plunge a victim into misery, you must overwhelm him with many small sufferings."
由atadrabik of Urborg
I already run Cabal Pit in the above list ;) agreed on its usefulness with or without Cruible.
Thanks on your experience with Chains though. I have to admit I haven't played it in Pox myself yet as I don't own it, but I can borrow it from a friend if necessary. I wouldn't have thought it was great against Elves, but I guess it stops Glimpse/Visionary.
On the note of Elves: could 1 Grafdigger's Cage be a good sideboard option, to diversify the graveyard hate to also randomly hit PIF in storm (their best comeback against us after some discarding I guess?) and Elves?
Hey, you replied to my post awhile back, just wondering if you are still running BG Pox and what are you replacing Sensei's Diving Top slot with?
So i don't particularly like it against elves, since they are just fine trying to kill us and out advantage us without their card draw, I was simply using it as an illustration. I tested a lot with chains vs. miracles, and it did very, very little, since they're one of the few brainstorm decks that doesn't actually start choking without access to brainstorm. I think elves is already a reasonable-to-slightly favored matchup for us, and chains can cut off some of their lines that we have a considerable amount of difficulty with normally.
I don't hate expanding the graveyard hate to a grafdigger's cage, but i'd want to be certain that i'm going to be playing decks where they're actually going to be doing things that cage can interact with (reanimating, searching deck for dudes, etc.) to play it over surgical/extirpate, since those have utility in most matchups if you have cards that are bad. i've had minimal trouble with storm, and your list looks like they basically need to be praying for a turn one kill in two games out of the match or they just die, so that wouldn't be a concern. i'd actually consider another sweeper (NoSB, BSZ, Deluge) if you're concerned with playing elves, since that likely means that you have several people expecting to see a lot of DnT and Eldrazi to combat the rise of combo with miracles gone. at that point, you're also likely to see leovold and lands decks, neither of which get particularly hurt by cage. I don't hate a second bridge, since it shuts off most of the elves lines that you're concerned about with Cage and also keeps Lage from killing you out of lands and most of the threats out of Leovold, Eldrazi, and D&T in check.
I also don't like Faerie Macabre in your GY hate package. most of the decks where hitting 1-2 cards is relevant, i'd rather have surgical/extirpate just to make sure i don't have to deal with whatever i'm hitting again (bridge from below, cabal therapy) or something utterly inclusive on the graveyard (tormod's crypt, leyline, nihil spellbomb).
Also, i'm not entirely sold on the Ob in the board at the moment, I'd rather have it as a Last Hope, who at least gets to help keep the board clear vs. creature decks, or aforementioned board wipe/creature control method. I don't hate a copy of the Abyss somewhere in your 75, as most BUG decks (and most delver decks) just singlehandedly lose to it, and it is absurdly helpful against eldrazi, DnT and Elves. so it all depends on what the meta will look like, but i think you're in a reasonable spot right now.
Also, i'm really curious how the Phyrexian Totems have been, since i don't personally like them much but i acknowledge that the last time i played them was before Veil got printed.
Great losses often bring only a numb shock. To truly plunge a victim into misery, you must overwhelm him with many small sufferings."
由atadrabik of Urborg
Thanks for the long feedback.
1) I can see Chains being bad against Miracles/Top yes.
2) Cage was mostly to diversify hate, but I guess against PIF in Storm, usually Surgical is as good indeed. So the PIF argument isn't valid, and it'd only blank NO/GSZ in Elves.
3) BSZ sounds interesting. That or an extra Deluge. Life total is a precious resource, but Zenithing for 5 to kill a bunch of Eldrazi seems unlikely. I don't like NOSB maindeck because it halves our clock practically. (when going Mishra)
4) A second Bridge in the SB sounds interesting (already play 1 main so that'd make it 3 total). It won me games against Dredge, DnT apart from the usual (SnT, Marit Lage) so I can see it being good as a 3-off to dodge removal.
5) The 3-1 split Surgical-Faerie was because Faerie is possibly a 2/2 flying threat if you've already locked your GY opponent out of the game and you topdeck it later. Then again I guess if you're already nuked their GY to the point of them not having a chance at winning, the threat is irrelevant too.
Gets around Chancellor too tho.
6) You mean Liliana of the last Hope? She kills 2/1 creatures, but apart from that I don't see it; she doesn't give real card advantage as we run (almost) no creatures to return from the yard? Ob Nixilis seems better against f.ex. Stoneblade, where drawing more cards and killing their buyback Batterskull every few turns if need be, seemed the best route to victory.
7) The Abyss is out of my price range for nowI thought it was pretty outdated? Doesn't kill a lot of things so it seemed too conditional...
8) Phyrexian Totem, not 10% sure yet; will need more testing. It's been a mana rock 90% of the time, that sometimes fixed my double black requirements (when cast off Wasteland Mishra Swamp f.ex.). Kills people occasionally, the 5/5 trample body is a better clock than Mishra.
It's an awful blocker tho. Once had the funny synergy with Maze of Ith come up to untap it after being blocked by a surprise Aether Vial true-name. Basically is only a creature if the board is absolutely empty, that's why I'm not sold yet.
So I particularly prefer more surgical effects against lands, since if you can hit their depths, their punishing fire, and whatever they boarded in as a kill condition, they literally just deck themselves, but we don't get to wait around for it since we usually lose game 1. I also almost prefer it being an extirpate so that the force of will combo decks (sneak and show, u/b reanimator, high tide, etc) can't really interact with it.
My thing with last hope is that her plus cursed scroll or cabal put kills 3/3s every ten (assuming crucible for the pit) where ob kills one thing every 4 turns if you want to keep him around. There's also the fact that you never really want to roll her down, so you usually wind up at her ultimate in surprisingly short order, and any b/x standard player can tell you how fast that wins the game (hint: very). There's the also the argument you pointed out against toxic deluge where life is a resource that ob also taxes you for, which I found he actually hurts you more than even blossom in that sense, but some amount of that is just me.
Abyss kills everything except MUD creatures and TNN. If you get it on an empty board, it outperforms even nether void against bug decks, d&t, eldrazi, and delver. As long as you can answer the card drawing from griselbrand and sneak attack, it's as good as bridge (if not better) against sneak and show. It is a little slow against elves, but it does do a very good job at helping mop up the board after a wipe. It's not one of the big, flashy pieces that just wins the game on its own a lot of the time, but it is so overpowering against so many decks that it has more than earned a spot in my version. Granted, your second tabernacle may be picking up a lot of that slack, but I have gone to a 1-1 main-board split of abyss and loved it. I'll likely trim one for a couple months until the meta calms down, though, so it's part of the 'season to taste' package for the slots where you finish locking your opponent out.
I personally like NoSB over e plague since it can't be abrupt decayed and it doesn't discriminate on creature types to just auto win certain matchups. Ex. Mopping up a young pyro+tnn board. D&t in general. Elves (they can't decay it). I can easily see it being another sweeper, but I usually consider at least one since it basically auto wins the matches where it's good, so the extra kill time isn't that important.
Great losses often bring only a numb shock. To truly plunge a victim into misery, you must overwhelm him with many small sufferings."
由atadrabik of Urborg
Ok, that's convincing enough to at least proxy up Lili and maybe Abyss for some test games.
Whats your opinion on 1-off Ghost Quarter in a list like the above? Seems like a valuable addition to 4 Wasteland + Crucible, both to answer problematic lands (Inkmoth, Dark Depths) if you don't draw the Wasteland fast enough, as well as another way to outgrind your opponents lands until they can't pay for Tabernacle. Useful or just too cute & slow? (after all it's another Colorless land which we already run enough of)
I am currently finding room for a one of ghost quarter in my list. In a lot of matches it looks like a fifth wasteland, and in the ones where it doesn't you generally don't mind the ability to hit their basics or the non-basics are enough trouble to be worth it.
Great losses often bring only a numb shock. To truly plunge a victim into misery, you must overwhelm him with many small sufferings."
由atadrabik of Urborg
So, we have another 5-0 in a daily list.
2 Nether Spirit
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
2 Crucible of Worlds
3 Cursed Scroll
3 Dark Ritual
3 Fatal Push
4 Hymn to Touch
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Sinkhole
4 SMallpox
3 Thoughtseize
1 Geier Reach Sanitarium
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Polluted Delta
6 Swamp
2 Tomb of Urami
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Verdant Catacomb
4 Wasteland
2 Collective Brutality
2 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Leyline of the Voikd
2 Nether Void
1 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Toxic Deluge
I still don't care for the second Nether spirit, and I feel like the second Tomb would suffer a similar feel. I'm also less fond of the 5th 1 mana discard when you're still on the full set of hymns, and I'm not sure on the main board Ob. All that aside, seems like a stable base for when people ask where Mono B should start looking.
Great losses often bring only a numb shock. To truly plunge a victim into misery, you must overwhelm him with many small sufferings."
由atadrabik of Urborg
Is Tomb of Urami any good? I've toyed with the idea, but this deck just goes all out with 2. does anyone have experience with it? I only have 1 crucible in my list, which might make a difference.
An older MTGO list had 2 tombs and 1 Nether Void. Essentially, being able to come back using Crucible isn't the point. Takes too many turns. What you're supposed to do is summon Urami at end of their turn when their hand is empty, their land count is less than 4, and the Nether Void is online. In that scenario, your opponent has few turns. In the 'perfect world' scenario, your Nether Void is online and you Sinkholed/Smallpoxed all their land away and you use Phyrexian Totems or what not to power out your Urami.
In that case, your win is guaranteed. I've found Urami better to run in a Loam Deck for some reason but a 5/5 all-in play works when you've got an overwhelming advantage. In my deck, it's a 3 turn clock cause I WILL big Pox you before swinging for the fences.
Three Lilianas to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all and in the Sinkhole bind them!
The only time I made a token with it, it got Fatal Pushed(I had to drop it to not die to an attack, so I couldn't wait until my opponent was empty handed)
I'd definitely not pop one out if you don't have to or if your opponent has too many outs (cards in hand or available mana)
It feels wrong to say, but I feel like Phyrexian Totem is a safer alternative than Tomb of Urami. It provides value with Smallpox, castable off Wastelands and Factories, hits just as hard and is easier to manage the downside. The list of flash creatures can be listed on one hand and you can empty their hand to protect from burn before you animate. Any straight removal doesn't set you back turns and turns.
I actually lost to Adachi Ryosuke at GP Shizuoka's Legacy Side event due to his totems (I was on miracles). Card is underrated.
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