well it was written in may 2016 and ive not updated it since the top ban... there is a bridge version even if there are just 3 in that build... "sample-version-2"Originally Posted by Valleysdai
just have written it to update the mtg salvation primer as the creator wasnt seen since ages... sadly moderators or admin is not able to update the primer till the forum gets an update... little bit strange but whatever...
would be happy about any input... specially after the top ban matchups will be different and i havnt played vs foodchain for example...
maybe im able to buy all cards on mtgo and also stream it that way i could be up to date in the matchup section...
Gobbos is a preference of mine and it suites my play style. On top of that I'd argue that the deck needs more disruption to play gobbos because while moggcatcher is a do-all toolbox it has to get on line first meaning one needs time to do all those shenanigans
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Assuming I am running the Stock Standard List (prodders, Chandras, Rabbles, 2-3 Trinis, ThunderBreaks), what main deck alterations would I need to make to move E-Bridges to the Maindeck? Would I remove Rabbles? Do I play Koth?
I also saw in Railbird Gamings latest vid, he had 4 Leyline of White (Sanctity?) in the SB as well as Leyline of Black, to help improve Storm and Burn matchups. Thoughts on that?
Thunderbreak plus Bridge is a bad idea. I usually cut TBreak when I side in Bridge.
Leyline of the Void is a good card for us, but Sancitity is unnecessary. Trinisphere usually does the job when combined with Chalices on the correct numbers.
I also believe 1-2 Koth of the Hammer is correct. 3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance minimum, 4 recommended.
Leyline of Sanctity sounds like anti-burn, anti-spot discard and anti-Belcher/storm targetting tech to me. It's a niche card which can steal games if it catches the opponent with their pants down. Especially against t1 combo decks when we are on the draw. But unless you are running Smuggler's Copter or another filtering tool, drawing into copies means deawing into dead cards. Thorn of Amethyst and extra copies of Trinisphere are feasible alternatives.
aswell as mindbreak trap if you have to worry about t1 combo... if it is vs burn trini + jitte should be enough paired with chalice...
Played in a 9 player 3 round tournament today, post top ban. Lost all coin flips but went 3-0. The meta was Monored stompy (me), Opalescence combo (r1 2-0), Imperial painter (r2 2-1), 2x Grixis delver (r3 2-1 super tight MU thanks to losing coin flip and Young pyro + Probe + Pierce + Angler + Therapy), 4c goodstuff, infect (only one that went 0-3), Food chain and Dredge. I had no idea what my opponents were playing g1 and neither did they because we played in individual tables, the rounds ended semi quickly due to only 4 matches simultaneously and there were insufficient opportunities to scout.
What I knew about the meta when making last minute changes was 1 infect, 1 dredge, most likely 0 D&T, most likely 0 elves, most likely 0 reanimator, most likely at least 1 delver deck when I was making last moment SB changes.
Core 39:
11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
Typical extra 16 (non Moggcatcher, non Werewolf):
4 Sin Prodder
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Fiery Confluence
2 Trinisphere
Flex 5:
4th Chandra (was semi-useless, drew into multiples too many times)
4th Fiery Confluence (got my 4th one 2min before tournament started. exceeded my expectations, always great card in multiples unless no RR mana available)
1 Thunderbreak Regent (underperformed: drew it once, got Dazed)
1 Quicksmith Rebel (never drew this)
1 Umezawa's Jitte (never drew this)
SB:
Core 9:
2 Faerie Macabre (never SB'd in but essential to have)
2 Phyrexian Revoker (always so great, even vs DRS, that I keep running 0-1-2 in MD flex slots occasionally. Not sure if running 0 md 2 sb was the right meta call, could have been 1-1 or 2-0 instead of the 0-2.)
2 Pyroblast (never drew this)
2 Pyrokinesis (never SB'd in)
1 Ensnaring Bridge
Last minute calls - 6:
2 Thorn of Amethyst (was completely useless)
2 Sudden Shock (underperformed)
1 Rolling Earthquake (never drew this)
1 Chaos Warp (catch-all for weird metas)
0 Sulfur Elemental (typically I have 2 for DnT)
Faerie Macabre 3 -> 2
All in all, I feel like we have extra SB space now which is difficult to fill. I am not thoroughly convinced by Sulfur Elemental, Sudden Shock, Thorn of Amethyst in post-top meta. Mindbreak Trap/Trinisphere over Thorn? Sudden Demise/Rolling Earthquake/Pyroclasm/Volcanic Fallout/Tears of Valakut over Sudden Shock? Jitte/Batterskull/Ensnaring Bridge over Sulfur elemental?
Avalanche Riders/Stone Rain/Goblin Settler to deal with basics?
How are we dealing with Angler/Tombstalker/bloated Tarmogoyf post SB?
1. always depends on your metagame... i try a lot of stuff and can tell that it is really random... if you think thorn was useless then try trap or trini but keep in mind that each card has its weakness and strenght and its the same for removal but i like pyrokinesis...All in all, I feel like we have extra SB space now which is difficult to fill. I am not thoroughly convinced by Sulfur Elemental, Sudden Shock, Thorn of Amethyst in post-top meta. Mindbreak Trap/Trinisphere over Thorn? Sudden Demise/Rolling Earthquake/Pyroclasm/Volcanic Fallout/Tears of Valakut over Sudden Shock? Jitte/Batterskull/Ensnaring Bridge over Sulfur elemental?
Avalanche Riders/Stone Rain/Goblin Settler to deal with basics?
How are we dealing with Angler/Tombstalker/bloated Tarmogoyf post SB?
2+3. if you are not playing the goblin version those choices seem pretty weak... i try icy manipulator in that slot cuz if deals with both and is ok vs reanimator or show and tell or also vs the 20/20 token...
my first impression is that the more aggressive version has more issues in the new meta cuz of the stoneblade return and their tons of basics... while the more controlish version has more issues to draw gas if opp can deal with 1-2 lock pieces and you know most of the time multiple bridges or trinis are terrible... that said atm i think you have stronger hands and better win % with the bridge/trini control version...maybe im able to buy all cards on mtgo and also stream it that way i could be up to date in the matchup section...
What started as a way to cast Leyline of the void against GY based strategies turned into something interesting:
My current mana base is 8 sol-lands, 7 mountain, 4 badlands
Maindecking Badlands was a way to mitigate my frustration drawing a Leyline later. It would take two moxen imprinting LotV plus a third in hand to be able to hardcast the thing.
What happened against non-reanimator builds was interesting. For example, an opponent was more willing to Wasteland a Badlands before targeting a Sol Land. I'd like to assume that they thought they were cutting me off of. T1 mox + Tomb followed by T2 Badlands. Being wasted surprisingly still left me 3 mana to cast stuff.
Granted, this has only come up in a couple games, but it caught my attention. Running more non basics doesn't make Burn any worse of a matchup than it already is. I have yet to open with a Badlands T1 and get cut off of R for the following turns. Food for thought I suppose.
I was at Worcester, started 0-2. Rd1 loss to D&t, Rd2 loss to miracles (Probably a giant misplay of racing a Snap with Chandra down in G3. His Tops were phenomenal, I'll cut multiple times but won't shuffle another persons deck after Bryant Cook's BS got destroyed). And then I went on a killing spree for 5 rounds against ANT, 4c Delver, Miracles (in 9:50) , RB Goblins, URB Tezz Control before a third loss to D&t in Rd8.
Took a monstrosity of a dragon stompy list (no rabblemasters or chrome mox) to fnm, went 2-2.
Round 1:
BW tokens 2-1
Won with pia and Kiran, siege-gang commander (yes he was a replacement for 1 rabblemaster). Chalice on 2 wrecked him game 3.
Round 2:
Burn 2-1
Lost game 1 to double fireblast after I didn't tap ancient tomb for several turns.
Chalice on 1 and then on 2 wrecks them especially with a trinisphere.
Round 3:
Jund 0-2
Game 1 was a really close battle, I even survived a lili ult. Then he sacced his own bob when on 3 life. Then he top decks a maelstrom pulse and kills me with tarmos.
Game 2 I get mana screwed (stuck on 2 lands with bridge in hand).
Round 4:
Elves 1-2
Completely locked them out game 1.
Game 2 kept a hand that was too slow.
Game 3 got mana flooded with a bridge on board (3 cities in hand).
Overall pleasantly surprised but ecstatic that I got 4 rabblemasters and a 2nd pia and Kiran.
Top 4ed a 22-person with this:
4 Harsh Mentor
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Sin Prodder
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
2 Trinisphere
4 Fiery Confluence
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Chrome Mox
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
11 Mountain
Sideboard
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Trinisphere
2 Sudden Shock
2 Pyrokinesis
4c Loam
g1: he got his mana online and was able to ruin me.
g2: t1 Moons, yay.
g3: Revoker on Diamond into Moons shorted his mana.
Dragon Stompy
g1: got buried while my opponent curved into 3 drops, could only defend myself with double P&K, wasn't enough.
g2: I got double Rabble going before he could do much.
g3: a very swingy and interesting game. He had early Chandra, I Revokered and played a three drop. My opp thenCconfluenced my revoker, dealt me four and killed my creature with his Chandra. I then had my Chandra kill his Chandra. Went a bit back and forth, eventually I had my Chandra ticking up and burnt him out with Confluence, stabilising at 4 life. Phew. Epic game.
Grixis Delver
g1: He double Thoughtseized me into nothing but I drew Chalice off the top. He had DRS but eventually I Confluenced it away and won.
g2: I Pyrokinesised a Delver early then slammed bombs into his counterspells. Without a clock I had plenty of time. Resolved Chandra and won.
Aluren
g1: Chalice on 1, then two, then attacked with idiots until my opponent died. He couldn't find Decay. I think I wrathed his board with Confluence at one stage too.
g2: Harsh Mentor did some work, pinging him for a fetch and Volrath's Stronghold activation. Died to Strix beats though as the board stalled.
g3: Mooned him early and Revoker shut down him comboing. Beat down began.
ID with S&S
Top 8 with Top Seed
Aluren
g1 and g3 were relatively uninteresting. Just lock pieced him with Moons and etc. and he died. g2 I remember some jockeying back and forth.
Dragon Stompy
g1: kept poorly. Went Tomb, pitch SSG for t1 Prodder. He does the same but off City and Chrome Mox. I don't draw anymore red sources and die with a stacked hand.
g2: Goes for a long time. He accelerates out early Chandras and I Confluence them away, struggling with mana in the process. Eventually we both have Bridges. He plays Rabble and starts a accruing tokens, I have Pyrokinesis that I hardcast at Rabble. We stare at each other for a long time, eventually I get double Rabble and have ~20 tokens. I Establish P&K which may be able to burn him at some stage. He draws three Confluence in a row off the top to kill me.
Deck was very fluid, have no idea how good Harsh Mentor was from this small sample size. Revoker was more of an all-star but makes for issues with Chrome Mox. Still looking for some cards to fill in the last two slots. Would probably go +1 Chandra, +1 Prodder, -4 Mentor (maybe to SB?) +2 Revoker.
Went 4-1 in a local 5 round tournament on Sunday. Played goblin stompy in the shook meta and it felt great.
4 Moggcatcher
1 Kiki
1 Settler
1 Redcap
1 Siege gang
1 Stingscourger
4 Rabblemaster
4 Magus of the moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
2 Trinisphere
3 Fiery Confluence
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Cavern of Souls
9 Mountain
Side:
3 bridge
3 macabre
2 sudden demise
2 anarchy
2 ratchet bomb
2 Thorn of amethyst
1 sharpshooter
Round 1 vs 4c Delver
G1 one simply plays Moon turn two, and they Brainstorm off an open Usea and scoop. I do not board. G2 he sticks a delver turn one, then i bait a Rabblemaster off a city and ssg which eats a daze. He flips delver off a brainstorm on top, replays the land and passes back. I go cavern into magus and he's land locked. I peel lands into stingscourger on his delver that had beat me down to 7, then a 3ball seals it. Turns out the bait was good bc he had force for my turn two play not counting on cavern.
Round 2 vs burn
He won the die roll and thus the match. I pointed the first game by giving up before it was over by missing a chalice trigger. With 3ball on the board. Live and learn.
Round 3 Snic-fit
No idea what he's on and establish a board with moon chalice on 1 and chandra, felt good til sneak attack into Emrakul did me in. Games2 and 3 i see my bridges on time and beat him down with gobbos both games.
Round 4 Aluren
A close 3 games, moon was relevant even with 4+ basics in his deck. Kiki and settler got me a game under a moon lock and i overran him with turn one moggcatcher chaining into Rabbles the last game with only a few minutes on the clock.
Round 5 Gb elves.
Mull to 5, open with cotv on 1, peel a tomb to lay down chalice on 2, then peel a 3ball for turn 3 and feel good. 4 turns later i got hoofed. Ban Craterhoof. Games two and three i lock her out pretty easy and win handily.
Ya I thought Revokers value was going to tank but I almost like it more right now. Our decks are pretty close overall. Have a event next weekend and this is what I am going to register:
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Sin Prodder
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
3 Trinisphere
4 Fiery Confluence
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Chrome Mox
2 Magma Jet
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
11 Mountain
Sideboard
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Icy Manipulator
2 Sudden Shock
2 Pyrokinesis
2 Pyroblast
2 Thorn of Amethyst
I really like Icy right now, I prefer it to bridge as its better with the aggro plan vs Bridge.
I know I watched one dude from this thread stream a few times and he is trying the Bridge version which I am not against but don't prefer currently and he is also use Icy a lot :).
Magma Jet is just for more removal and to better filter the deck which has helped a lot. Sudden is superior but the scrying is so useful.
Last edited by Jander78; 05-02-2017 at 08:31 PM. Reason: Added card tags.
This might be a little bit of a radical idea, but I've been play testing this with some success. How about a Rabbless build?
I went a more controlling route and yes the deck doesn't kill in 3 turns but it can now play the grind game if it needs to.
Here's where I'm currently at:
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Sin Prodder
2 Quicksmith Rebel
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Fiery Confluence
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
3 Trinisphere
1 Icy Manipulator
1 Scalding Tarn
10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
SB:
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Sulfur Elemental
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Ashen Rider
hi there moon lovers!
i'm mainly a goblin player, but sometimes i love to play dragon stompy too.
in the last weeks i'm testing 1x Godo + 1x Batterskull maindeck. i don't know if it were been tested in the past
it's a tech from monoR sneak attack that i always found very interesting and imho works nice in dragonless stompy too (not in bridges-heavy builds of course)
the upsides here are:
-they are good beater with decent body for legacy's standards
-even without rituals, reaching 5 or 6 mana to cast them is not that hard tnx to sol lands and chandra's +1 ability
-it creates card advantage in a deck that need it a lot
-batterskull help us to recover life loss from ancient tomb or stabilize a board escaped from our control
-Godo's 2nd combat phase trigger is synergistic with batterskull and rabblemaster
-Godo also allow us to fetch a post-side Manriki Gusari against stonoforge decks (especialy D&T since it's bad MU) (i didn't tried this one yet)
have anybody tried it yet? what do you think?
Godo: Cmc6 can be rough to pay if the opponent is running Wasteland, or when you have an active Moon effect so you don't get double colorless. As you mentioned, Chandra can make it castable, but that requires that Chandra resolves in the first place and survives one extra turn. Into a board where Chandra would simply die, many of the cmc4 options are better because you can play one of those first to protect Chandra, then land Chandra next turn. Chandra itself wins the game for us, as long as we can just protect it. Using Chandra as a mana dork to fuel another win condition sounds like win-more to me.
Batterskull: Cmc 5 for Batterskull seems much more reasonable to me than the cmc6 of Godo. I am interested to hear your experience with a md Batterskull. Equipping it into Sin Prodder with Menace or Rabblemaster with huge ATK value when attacking sounds like the life gain could really stabilize the board for us in a long game.
tl;dr I would choose 2x Batterskull over 1x Batterskull + 1x Godo.
I still don't think people should be cutting cavern so quickly. This especially if you expect loads of blue decks that we shouldn't have a problem with. Seeing as how we don't have as much CA as the blue decks, i see cavern as a counterspell prison card like Blood Moon is to nonbasics.
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atm i found batterskull really nice.
agree with you about wastelands, sometimes Godo it's locked in my hand (expecially when rishadan ports are on the field too)
i'll follow your suggestion and will try to add a 2nd batterskull over Godo
Personally, I dislike Cavern of Souls because I can play basic mountain, basic mountain, City of Traitors / Ancient Tomb into Chandra or Fiery Confluence without getting Wastelanded in the process. Also, I get punished less by Price of Progress.
At the moment, I feel that at least in my meta most blue decks are playing "tax counters" + Wasteland. In my opinion, the solution is to just play a bit slower by not playing into Daze/Spell Pierce if possible. Simian Spirit Guide really helps with the Daze payments.
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