[Deck] Aggro Loam

[Treacleson]

Well, as we do not have real lifegain and play Bobs I somehow never wanted two Deluges. Of course, your chances to hit one are bigger but if you draw both you often can only play one. Besides that Golgari Charm hits our True Name Nemesis. In most scenarios Charm and Deluge have the same effect. Sometimes it is annoying that Charm does not hit a Shaman. But I think it is definitely not wrong ti play a 1/1 Charm/Deluge split.

The regenerate mode of Charm is very fringe. I think I used it maybe 1 or 2 times since I play this deck. But it may be a bigger thing if people start to play other UW control decks featuring maybe Supreme Verdict (don't know if this will happen, but who knows).

The destroy enchantment mode is essential and one reason to play this card over 2nd Deluge in my eyes. I feel like there is a rise in Aluren/Food Chain decks and most importantly Sneak and Show. Destroying an enchantment in the right moment can safe you here. And don't forget Blood Moon which for sure will come down in Sneak and Show matches.

If you face an Angler or large Goyf you will most likely prefer Swords/Decay or Lili to get rid of them. In my experience big threats are rather solo on the battlefield. So, if you want to 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 with Deluge one usually prefers to wait for the opponent to slam more threats. I however wouldn't like to do that with a 5/6 Goyf beating me every round.


Well, I'm not sure if Grim Flayer can really replace Sylvan Library. He can be fetched by Zenith, that's nice. But Library gives you so much more advantages in my eyes. Despite that people Library doesn't die to Fatal Push and Bolts. With my first activation of Library I often draw all cards but me far ahead in terms of ressources.

I don't really see the advantage of Fearie Macabre over Leyline of the Void. Ok, if you draw Fearie it's better, however, a good reanimator player can play around a singleton exile effect. Also, your Dredge MU will be far more difficult.

I personally don't like Thalia. She is only good against Storm decks. Etherswon Canonist as more applications than Thalia in the SB. Besides that we play very much non-creature spells ourself often making Thalia awkward.

I'd rather play a Choke if I wanted more hate against blueish decks (which honestly isn't necessary). Probably a Planeswalker or 3rd Sword/Thoughtseize fits better in that spot.

But overall your list seems fine (I mean, if you make -1 Flayer, +1 Library you end up with my list from above :D).

Thats totally reasonable, I think I will swap the deulge for a charm, If just for a little more sped on my removal. May as well net deck the top 8 deck :P

I find that the synergy between flayer, bob, loam, knight and pfire is worth it, but you are right that it is less pure advantage than library. I'll probably go back to the library as is but I definitely think people should try playing one as it feeds itself and can really enable the deck while filtering your draws.

I see your point with thalia for sure though, I'm looking at garruk though and feeling a little underwhelmed, my kingdom for 4 loyalty on garruk.

Is the general consensus that chandra should be the planeswalker that goes in nowadays? What do you think of tireless tracker in that spot? Thanks for taking the time to help.

edit: I quite like faerie macabre as I find most reanimator players are more conditioned to leyline/surgical and rip and almost always play my faerie macabre hands as though I'm holding surgical, plus macabre has the upside of blanking their exhume even if they have two creatures, and it is uncounterable. I'm willing to punt dredge as it is not an extremely popular archetype where I play, plus the only real threat that frightens me post board is the dread return plays they have, where faerie macabre is astounding. for the rest we have removal and creatures to beat up on two twos and maze for grave trolls. Not trying to be argumentative just stating my reasoning,

[Stuhl]

Tireless Tracker could be a thing. However, I am a fan of non-creature threats and non-decayable threats. That said, Planeswalkers. I don't if Garruk, Chandra or Ajani is better. Well, probably Jace the Mindsculptor is better than all, but that is another story :D
I really think the Planeswalker slot is a personal style choice. I think MatsOle i.e. started to play Ajani to have +1 on the mana denial plan.

I could see the Grim Flayer in the Deathrite Shaman spot. In my list this spot is currently occupied by Ghost Quarter (inspired by MatsOle :D).

[Treacleson]

So what you are saying is splash underground sea for post board Jace :P

I see your point Ajani is interesting, but I don't have one right now so I'll probably stick to garruk. I've always had trouble identifying the flex slots in the deck, how important do you think the GQ is?

I'm very tempted to just swap Ghost quarter for Flayer, perhaps drop a golgari charm or a hatebear, maybe even the garruk slot since garruk shines against BUG style decks and land destruction seems the most reliable way to hate them out of a game

edit: Made some changes

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/tour-...-4colour-loam/

[Stuhl]

So what you are saying is splash underground sea for post board Jace :P

Well, no, it was more a reference to Patrick Chapin's super hit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnYhG_ekoH8

[Treacleson]

Man, a pay raise, true love, and a top 8 title. Good thing Jace can't be abrupt decayed. Maybe I should take a Jace to ask my boss for a raise.

"That card cost how much?"

"75 USD"

"I only just now realized how little I actually wanted to know."

[Eldrazi Grandfather]

Sthul I play your list, except for the sideboard:

1 reclamation sage
1 garruk relentless
1 collective brutality
1 toxic deluge
3 leyline of the void
2 swords to plowshares
2 containment priest
1 thalia, guardian of thraben
1 ethersworn canonist
1 chandra tod
1 golgari charm

Do you think the two thoughtseizes are essential in this meta? Is Sneak n Show a winnable mu?

[CptHaddock]

Do you think the two thoughtseizes are essential in this meta? Is Sneak n Show a winnable mu?

I'd say so, maybe even 3 if you aren't playing Containment Priest. I think the top 3 right now are elves, delver and storm with sneak being a close 4th and thoughtseize is great in 3 of those matchups. The matchup is certainly winnable but it's very difficult....

[Pilhas]

I'd say so, maybe even 3 if you aren't playing Containment Priest. I think the top 3 right now are elves, delver and storm with sneak being a close 4th and thoughtseize is great in 3 of those matchups. The matchup is certainly winnable but it's very difficult....

What do you take out against elves to make room for the thoughseize if you don't mind me asking? I usually do not bring them.

[Treacleson]

I personally cut the slower cards, things like library, loams and karakas which I feel is usually pretty dead against them. The priority I feel is establishing a threat and just keeping them suppressed with as much disruption as possible as opposed to just trying to really grind it out. Pull the rug out from under their feet and then throw punishing fires at anything that moves on their side of the board.

If we can get the table hellbent then it makes it extremely unlikely that they can even try to grind. Even if they do establish a board state like wirewood symbiote+elvish visionary, it becomes very vulnerable to any top deck removal at sorcery speed and hand disruption from lili or just a good old fashioned clunky late game thoughtseize after you get them to block+bounce.

[CptHaddock]

What do you take out against elves to make room for the thoughseize if you don't mind me asking? I usually do not bring them.

-1 Centaur Vinecrasher
-1 Deathrite Shaman
-1 Scavenging Ooze
-2 Liliana of the Veil
-2 Life from the Loam
-1 Sylvan Library
-1 Maelstrom Pulse
-1 Maze of Ith

+2 Toxic Deluge
+2 Thoughtseize
+2 Swords to Plowshares
+1 Ethersworn Canonist
+1 Containment Priest
+1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
+1 Golgari Charm

Now that I look at it I might just be overboarding. Vinecrasher, shaman, ooze and maze should be pretty self explanatory. I don't like Liliana in this matchup as at best she gets rid of maybe 1 of their many creatures, so it might look odd that i'm bringing in Chandra but I think that having a removal spell alongside a card draw is worth the 4 cmc. Loam and Library are just too slow and i'm okay with losing a slightly clunkier sorcery speed removal spell (Pulse) in favor of board wipes.

I have yet to change my list post top ban.

[Pilhas]

-1 Centaur Vinecrasher
-1 Deathrite Shaman
-1 Scavenging Ooze
-2 Liliana of the Veil
-2 Life from the Loam
-1 Sylvan Library
-1 Maelstrom Pulse
-1 Maze of Ith

+2 Toxic Deluge
+2 Thoughtseize
+2 Swords to Plowshares
+1 Ethersworn Canonist
+1 Containment Priest
+1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
+1 Golgari Charm

Now that I look at it I might just be overboarding. Vinecrasher, shaman, ooze and maze should be pretty self explanatory. I don't like Liliana in this matchup as at best she gets rid of maybe 1 of their many creatures, so it might look odd that i'm bringing in Chandra but I think that having a removal spell alongside a card draw is worth the 4 cmc. Loam and Library are just too slow and i'm okay with losing a slightly clunkier sorcery speed removal spell (Pulse) in favor of board wipes.

I have yet to change my list post top ban.

I actually like ooze quite a bit in the matchup. usually the matchup goes into lockdown if we survive and then we need something to out grind where ooze is stellar.
@Treacleson I advise at not taking karakas since we are low on white mana and landing those canonists/swords are very important.

[CptHaddock]

I actually like ooze quite a bit in the matchup. usually the matchup goes into lockdown if we survive and then we need something to out grind where ooze is stellar.
@Treacleson I advise at not taking karakas since we are low on white mana and landing those canonists/swords are very important.

That sounds reasonable. For me it just comes down the surviving the initial onslaught (the first couple of turns) and if I make it past there I feel very favored to win the matchup and I felt like ooze just didn't help me do that. I'm probably very spoiled in that I play against the same 2 elves players all the time so I tend to know how they play.

I wouldn't take out Karakas in the matchup either. The white is important and every once in a while you get to protect your teeg from a removal spell or even rarer bounce a Leovold or Ruric Thar.

[Treacleson]

Hmm fair enough. I haven't been punished for it yet, but I suppose it wouldn't hurt to have the extra white source thank you for the advice.

Has Centaur vine crasher been good? I saw that card months ago and it took all my friends to talk me out of trying it, that said there was a lot of miracles around at the time. It seems rather spicy in a less STP/terminus heavy meta.

[Nocley]

Dropped at 5-2 because I had some medical issues and decided to go home. Deck was awesome. It would need someone who has more time than me to test the deck. A friend of mine played it as well and we had a lot of fun. Like Dazing your opponents FOW on your Chalice, hitting a Primeval Titan with Telemin Performance or stealing a Blightsteel Colossus with Dack Fayden. It was great :D

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Vendilion Clique

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Life from the Loam
1 Sylvan Library

4 Punishing Fire
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Councils Judgement

4 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void

2 Flusterstorm
1 Daze

4 Flooded Strand
2 Windswept Heath
1 Arid Mesa
2 Tundra
2 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Savannah
1 Plateau
1 Plains
1 Irrigated Farmland
1 Lonely Sandbar
1 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
4 Wasteland
3 Grove of the Burnwillows

SB
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Meddling Mage
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Containment Priest
2 Wear//Tear
1 Telemin Performance
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Flusterstorm
1 Firespout
1 Dack Fayden

How was Goyf is one of the biggest questions I have here. I know you're not in black so you can't run Bob, but I don't see the meta shaping up to be that great for Goyfs right now either (outside of chumping things that p fire doesn't kill well).

Tireless Tracker could be a thing. However, I am a fan of non-creature threats and non-decayable threats. That said, Planeswalkers. I don't if Garruk, Chandra or Ajani is better. Well, probably Jace the Mindsculptor is better than all, but that is another story :D
I really think the Planeswalker slot is a personal style choice. I think MatsOle i.e. started to play Ajani to have +1 on the mana denial plan.

I could see the Grim Flayer in the Deathrite Shaman spot. In my list this spot is currently occupied by Ghost Quarter (inspired by MatsOle :D).

Tracker is something I really like, but I just can't stand having so many 3 drops when combined with kotr and lily. I know I have been brewing around a bit with BUG loam variants, and for a while I adopted Ancient Tomb into those lists. Could we get to a point where our mana base just isn't stretched, and we can reliably wrap that into a T1 tracker with mox?

DRS as a singleton has over performed for me. My testing the past few days has been insane and I never want to trim that card again.

[CptHaddock]

Hmm fair enough. I haven't been punished for it yet, but I suppose it wouldn't hurt to have the extra white source thank you for the advice.

Has Centaur vine crasher been good? I saw that card months ago and it took all my friends to talk me out of trying it, that said there was a lot of miracles around at the time. It seems rather spicy in a less STP/terminus heavy meta.

Can't really say, I don't think I have gotten enough games. I do like him so far, he allows you to trample over pyroman tokens, tnn, griffins and other random creatures. In general i'll board him out vs any deck that plays swords to plowshares, i've yet to make changes postban and people playing all the fun decks they couldn't play while miracles was a thing makes it hard to test.

[Treacleson]

Tracker is something I really like, but I just can't stand having so many 3 drops when combined with kotr and lily. I know I have been brewing around a bit with BUG loam variants, and for a while I adopted Ancient Tomb into those lists. Could we get to a point where our mana base just isn't stretched, and we can reliably wrap that into a T1 tracker with mox?

DRS as a singleton has over performed for me. My testing the past few days has been insane and I never want to trim that card again.

I'd be interested in a spicy ancient tomb mox diamond brew. The issue there is our mana costs are so greedy we're doing things like curving teeg into lili and then punishing fire I feel like if the deck wanted to play tombs and the like it would probably require cutting atleast one colour and turning the shell into something a little more stompy.

This sorta removes the play from the deck, theres potential in some kind of r/g tracker, punishing fire, chalice, thorn of amethyst style strategy.

edit: and I don't think I've seen city of traitors in a deck with loam in it so that could be nifty.


Edit: @CptHaddock

I totally get it I'm kinda feelin the same about grim flayer, some games it eats removal, other games its a 4/4 trampling draw three on combat damage.

But atleast the board wipes cost 3 mana now.

[Nocley]

I'd be interested in a spicy ancient tomb mox diamond brew. The issue there is our mana costs are so greedy we're doing things like curving teeg into lili and then punishing fire I feel like if the deck wanted to play tombs and the like it would probably require cutting atleast one colour and turning the shell into something a little more stompy.

This sorta removes the play from the deck, theres potential in some kind of r/g tracker, punishing fire, chalice, thorn of amethyst style strategy.

edit: and I don't think I've seen city of traitors in a deck with loam in it so that could be nifty.

If it does work, I think it would have to be in something like the Bant-red list that was also referred to. That has a lot less stress on the mana base (Jace is UU but the mana works out so much nicer with less of a dependency on u than b). Especially because youre basically just GW splashing for UU and RR (which is P Fire's real cost). I'll have to actually test the Bant-red list first to see how much that is worth going towards

[Bobmans]

So today someone had another 5-0 in the league. First of all, it is very nice to see this deck keeps getting some solid results. Lot of 5-0 finishes and top 8's, even at large events like last weekend in Frankfurt.

Ok so, interesting about this list is that it ran 2 different copies of the new bicycle lands. Not sure if Blackmetal666 is also on the Source, but i would be happy to hear about the new cycle lands.

[CptHaddock]

How do you guys normally board for the mirror match? I always feel like I have more to bring in than actually take out.

The givens for taking out are probably:
-4 Chalice of the Void
-1 Gaddock Teeg

Is there anything else that you usually take out?


I'm assuming we want to bring in the following:
# Leylines
# Toxic Deluge
# Walkers
# Swords
# Other removal spells

[Stuhl]

How do you guys normally board for the mirror match? I always feel like I have more to bring in than actually take out.

The givens for taking out are probably:
-4 Chalice of the Void
-1 Gaddock Teeg

Is there anything else that you usually take out?


I'm assuming we want to bring in the following:
# Leylines
# Toxic Deluge
# Walkers
# Swords
# Other removal spells

Well, it may sound weird but I usually board out 2 PFires. It is just depressing having PFire while facing Leyline and most of the time you hit just 4 creatures with it, namely Bobs. As we anyway board in 2 Swords and Deluge and stuff I think PFire is the weakest removal we have. Of course, the ability to kill Planeswalkers is great but in my opinion all the SB we bring in are better than PFire.

If I'm sure my opponent does not play the DD combo I also may board out Karakas.

I also bring in Rec Sage and the Golgari Charms. They hit Leyline and you never want to give your opponent a Bob or Library. Charm handles both. Taking a Mox with Rec Sage is also very strong in my opinion. But primarily I board him against Leyline. But not always, maybe it depends on "on the draw" or "on the play".