[Deck] Death and Taxes

[Medea_]

I don't think there are any playable flanking cards in this deck. If I'm going to get cute, I would just like a Pontiff to deal with TNN AND Elves (along with other stuff) with one slot.

[Mad Mat]

Yeah, Magus sometimes just punishes their clunky draws and 4c manabase. It's really hard to beat t2 SfM t3 TNN, but they don't always have it. Those decks tend to run fewer cantrips than most legacy blue decks (that list is only running 4 Brainstorm) so they don't always do their thing as consistently as other blue decks. You can beat an inconsistent deck with a 4c manabase. Sometimes it beats itself.

The trade-off was between running decay to improve the miracles match-up or run ponder to improve consistency. This list was before the ban so it attempted the former. Now the deck does not need maindeck decay as much anymore, its consistency will improve again.

This sort of deck isn't really comparable to esperblade. It's more comparable to grixis or patriot delver, with very efficient threats but here compounded by a stoneforge package rather than burn and disruption. Such a combination is very difficult for D&T to beat. It'd be interesting to test how magus really performs in this match-up. A combo of magus and pontiff would be back-breaking, but is not that straightforward to pull off mana-wise. Keep in mind that this sort of deck also runs 4 wastelands and has quite a bunch of maindeck answers to vial (even if it drops decay).

I'm way more concerned about facing a UW Stoneblade deck, since it's going to do the same thing more consistently and doesn't give you much room to manascrew it.

Not by magus or wasteland, but thalia and port do a lot of work in this match-up. Stoneblade has no acceleration and cannot rely on its typical gameplan as much as it wants to: dropping a single threat like an equipped stoneforge or jace and protecting it, because we have so much answers to put in the way. The deck is also more susceptible to our late game hate cards like cataclysm and gideon.

If the meta starts to warp towards these sort of blade decks (the control esper lists and the aggro bant/bug/4c lists), manriki is going to be key. It also makes me lean towards black splash more than red splash. In my experience, splashing both will lead to not being able to cast the necessary bullets when you need them. Unless you make your manabase too greedy, which also does not seem too advisable as I expect a surge of blood moon and back to basics effects (in response to the rise of delver and aggro true-name lists).

Right, that's close to his list. Reid had went past dark bant into 4c with sfm if you watch his youtube stuff. This isn't his, but it's close and again, has almost no game VS. combo, so I doubt there's much to worry about after RD 2 if you can avoid it early, there's a good chance it doesn't stay in the winning brackets.

Why would this sort of deck have no game vs combo?

[iatee]

Decks w/ a slow clock that just hope their FoWs are gonna save them are all pretty bad against combo, since the combo deck has time to set up past FoW / Cabal Therapy you.

[tescrin]

I also find it odd that he says "you won't face this if you dodge it round 1 so you're in the winning brackets"; and cites a list that just top8'd? It's such a self-contradicting point it seems satirical. He also cites Reid Duke playing it, and I mean, I know he screws around a bit.. but he's also someone who knows what he's doing. He's topped with Pox of all things (although it was when it was in a reasonable meta for it)

but that's kinda my point. He's a good player who plays a variety of stuff, often targeted at the meta from an angle. I'd think it odd that one of the Mtg-Celebs would be cited as a great example of why a deck sucks; *right next* to the deck top 8ing in a quoted passage.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I also find it odd that he says "you won't face this if you dodge it round 1 so you're in the winning brackets"; and cites a list that just top8'd? It's such a self-contradicting point it seems satirical. He also cites Reid Duke playing it, and I mean, I know he screws around a bit.. but he's also someone who knows what he's doing. He's topped with Pox of all things (although it was when it was in a reasonable meta for it)

but that's kinda my point. He's a good player who plays a variety of stuff, often targeted at the meta from an angle. I'd think it odd that one of the Mtg-Celebs would be cited as a great example of why a deck sucks; *right next* to the deck top 8ing in a quoted passage.

I said it wouldn't STAY in the upper tables. Things are changing all the time, but I'm pretty sure Stoneblade isn't where it's settling.

I beat the hooey out of lands tonight. He wasn't the best lands player, but it was fine since I've rarely played the matchup, it was the GQ version, it seems better. Moon makes it grossly winnable, albeit a little swingy. I won even after stp on a 20/20.

[Black_Diamond]

@ Mad Mat

That is the list I registered for Frankfurt:



/NAME:

3 Plains
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
2 Plateau
3 Karakas
3 Cavern of Souls
2 Flooded Strand
2 Windswept Heath
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Flickerwisp
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Mother of Runes
2 Recruiter of the Guard
2 Mirran Crusader
3 Magus of the Moon
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice


//Sideboard

SB: 1 Manriki-Gusari
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Council's Judgment
SB: 1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
SB: 1 Containment Priest
SB: 2 Orzhov Pontiff
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Path to Exile
SB: 1 Leonin Relic-Warder



In my experience it is quite good against all the True-Name-Nemesis decks, because the usually can´t handle Mirran Crusader very well. After the sideboarding it is really in our favour with two Orzhov Pontiffs. The mana base is of course very greedy but works quite good for me, with all the Delver Decks around i really like the 3 Cavern of souls.

Unfortunately in Frankfurt the result was not so good: Win against Grixis Controll and Goblins, Loss against Burn x 2 and Turbo Depth. I decided the day before to play Mariki-Gusari over Kor Firewalker

[Mad Mat]

@Black Diamond: That is another approach to the three-color problem. On first sight, I have two 'problems' with it.

One, you don't have access to pontiff game 1, where his surprise factor is much higher (most players don't count on D&T having game 1 answers to true-name and are therefore prone to go all in on the asocial fish). Second and more importantly is that with only caverns and vial, you're not as consistently getting pontiff out against decks running wasteland, such as delver and true-name aggro. It's also not as consistent in the mirror without scrubland. With this split, you kind-of hope that most match-ups where pontiff stars are match-ups where your caverns will be spared or can be saved until needed. In my experience, this is typically not the case. With what you say about delver and cavern, I have relatively frequently been swamped with my (1-of) pontiff in hand because my black sources got wasted (or stifled). Delver is a deck which can consistently get 2 to 3 wastelands every game and which plays 4 daze, so you are often not in a position to keep your splash sources in hand. It's the same reason why I don't like Kambal that much: he should be wicked against delver in theory, but in practice he's rather unreliable to cast (very bad thing against this deck) and because of his black requirement his interaction with karakas is much less relevant.

Burn will be worse for any splash. I don't think there's a need to bring in specific burn-hate for that purpose. You could improve your sb a bit by including flex slots which are good against other decks than burn as well, such as blessed alliance or mark of asylum.

[Medea_]

Article

I tweaked Bahra's list a little bit and am trying it out tonight. Seems interesting.

[J ♥ 5]

I don't think there are any playable flanking cards in this deck. If I'm going to get cute, I would just like a Pontiff to deal with TNN AND Elves (along with other stuff) with one slot.

I've actually been playing a Riftmarked Knight as a 'third' Mirran Crusader for about a month, and it's surprisingly decent. If you're expecting a large amount of True Names I wouldn't hesitate to test one out. OUTSIDE of the True Name consideration its unequivocally worse than a crusader would have been, but it can do a decent impression.

Key Points:
• Flanking, if a True-Name blocks it it dies (also lets it rumble better than a 2/2 should against creatures)
• Pro Black allows it to dodge Abrupt Decay, Fatal Push, swing through Leovold, Deathrite & Gurmag
• Suspend ability - This was ACTUALLY relevant against Miracles (RIP) sometimes, getting an uncounterable pro white 2/2 (that also has flanking) is pretty big game. Flanking means it couldn't be ganked by clique or snapcaster. With Miracles gone I can't imagine this matters too much though.

Going in to Legacy tonight I think I'm swapping it for a Canonist, but it's definitely an avenue worth exploring.

[Medea_]

I went 3-1 with the Bahra-style build tonight, beating Burn, Eldrazi, and Merfolk. My loss was to Burn. The sideboard might need a bit of tweaking still, but conceptually, the deck is fine. I'll be running this through a gauntlet in the next few days.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

How did you like it?

[IRS]

I went 3-1 with the Bahra-style build tonight, beating Burn, Eldrazi, and Merfolk. My loss was to Burn. The sideboard might need a bit of tweaking still, but conceptually, the deck is fine. I'll be running this through a gauntlet in the next few days.

I eagerly await your reworked sideboard.

How did you feel about flickerwisp in the list? Do you feel it can be replaced by Displacer or THC as proposed in the channel the other day?
?

[Medea_]

@IRS

I was in the chat and suggested cutting a Flickerwisp for a Resto, THC, or Mindcensor as well as suggested cutting Sudden Demise. The decklist in my article reflects those two changes. I don't want to lose access to the Flickerwisp effect, but it is *really* hard to actually cast. 2 or 3 is probably correct.

@Secretly.A.Bee
I'd say that the early game is great and the late game is great in comparison to normal taxes. Chalice and Magus threaten to effectively end the game far before traditional taxes can. Pia and Kiran, Resto, and Palace Jailer dominated games once I got to them, especially if I drew two of them together; dropping those cards on turn three felt amazing as well. That being said, some of the consistency in the mid-game is gone. There are fewer true threats like Avenger and Crusader to trade with other threats, and you can't simply StP away opposing threats.

[NeckBird]

With everyone brewing W/r/b Death & Taxes decks for the current meta, it's important to note that a mono-white Death & Taxes deck took down a 268 player Legacy tournament in Japan this past weekend.

http://mtg.bigmagic.net/article/2017...bmo09/027.html

8《平地/Plains》
4《リシャーダの港/Rishadan Port》
4《不毛の大地/Wasteland》
2《魂の洞窟/Cavern of Souls》
2《地平線の梢/Horizon Canopy》
3《カラカス/Karakas》

クリーチャー
4《ルーンの母/Mother of Runes》
4《石鍛冶の神秘家/Stoneforge Mystic》
4《スレイベンの守護者、サリア/Thalia, Guardian of Thraben》
3《ちらつき鬼火/Flickerwisp》
2《ファイレクシアの破棄者/Phyrexian Revoker》
2《護衛募集員/Recruiter of the Guard》
2《ミラディンの十字軍/Mirran Crusader》
2《聖域の僧院長/Sanctum Prelate》
1《宮殿の看守/Palace Jailer》
1《迷宮の霊魂/Spirit of the Labyrinth》
1《セラの報復者/Serra Avenger》

スペル
4《剣を鍬に/Swords to Plowshares》
4《霊気の薬瓶/AEther Vial》
1《殴打頭蓋/Batterskull》
1《火と氷の剣/Sword of Fire and Ice》
1《梅澤の十手/Umezawa's Jitte》


サイドボード
2《封じ込める僧侶/Containment Priest》
2《外科的摘出/Surgical Extraction》
2《エーテル宣誓会の法学者/Ethersworn Canonist》
2《議会の採決/Council's Judgment》
2《ゼンディカーの同盟者、ギデオン/Gideon, Ally of Zendikar》
1《流刑への道/Path to Exile》
1《解呪/Disenchant》
1《フェアリーの忌み者/Faerie Macabre》
1《安らかなる眠り/Rest in Peace》
1《万力鎖/Manriki-Gusari》

[redtwister]

@_Medea
Here is what I am working on. Some of this was after watching Bahra's stream and his realization that Flickerwisp and Sudden Demise are both hard to cast reliably and the deck was very soft to nono-creature combo. Given the 24 lands and two maindeck 4 drops, maybe Restoration Angel is the call, since 3/4 flyer is also amazing, but I am testing Eldrazi Displacer for now because of the wider range of tricks, the CMC 3, and the ability to hit opponent's creatures, despite the somewhat nonbo with Magus of the Moon. What makes them options of course is that both are Wx, not WWx, both give a flicker effect. However, and this is why I am on a 2/2 split, neither one can be searched out with Recruiter of the Guard, a not inconsiderable issue... So until they print 3/2 2W Flash, Flying, Flicker (aka not Stonecloaker... I think this is it with this manabase.

Sideboard, I might be a bit overboard on combo hate, but I think that might be okay until the dust settles a bit more. Sanctum Prelate has fallen out of favor, but it happens to be an interesting catch-all for the worst non-creature spells you are facing (4 vs. TES/ANT is solid, 3 vs. Show and Tell to stop them from putting Omniscience into play, on 1 in the mirror especially against mono-W, on 1 vs. Grixis Delver, and so on.) I just haven't been able to let her go.

Lands (24)
4 Wasteland
2 Rishadan Port
2 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Flooded Strand
4 Windswept Heath
3 Plains
2 Plateau
2 Karakas

Creatures (23)
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Recruiter of the Guard
2 Magus of the Moon
2 Flickerwisp
2 Eldrazi Displacer
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Palace Jailer
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar

Other Spells (13)
2 Dismember
4 Aether Vial
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull

Sideboard: (15)
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Containment Priest
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Banisher Priest
1 Cunning Sparkmage
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Palace Jailer

[iatee]

With everyone brewing W/r/b Death & Taxes decks for the current meta, it's important to note that a mono-white Death & Taxes deck took down a 268 player Legacy tournament in Japan this past weekend.

For everyone talking about splash builds being soft to Wasteland - this mono-W list has exactly as many basic land sources as most splash lists do if they play 5 fetches 3 Plains.

[Medea_]

@iatee
One thing I noticed is that there needs to be a fair number of generically solid cards in the sideboard. There are going to be some matchups where things like Chalice or Magus just don't do much; I want to have some reasonable cards to sub in. We've been trying cutting cards like Council's Judgment, and the result is that some of our flexibility is gone. I worry that going too far down the Mindbreak Trap route might put you in a position where you don't have enough to board in for many matchups.

[Bryant Cook]

@iatee
One thing I noticed is that there needs to be a fair number of generically solid cards in the sideboard. There are going to be some matchups where things like Chalice or Magus just don't do much; I want to have some reasonable cards to sub in. We've been trying cutting cards like Council's Judgment, and the result is that some of our flexibility is gone. I worry that going too far down the Mindbreak Trap route might put you in a position where you don't have enough to board in for many matchups.

I've faced the 3 color decks online, I feel like they're giving up a lot to be able to fight off storm. You're playing Thalia, Chalice of the Void, Prelate, Revoker, Cannonist & Pontiff/Sudden Demise. You don't need Mind Break Trap too, use those slots to help fix other match-ups.

[iatee]

Jeez Bryant, at least add 'please'...

[Bryant Cook]

Jeez Bryant, at least add 'please'...

I typically save that for the moment before I go in dry.