Realistically it does not matter which sword you use, so long as it triggers. All of them are busted, so long as you use the one which most guarantees you hit with it.Originally Posted by Luthiereisfun
The swords are usually just meta calls. Fire and Ice is the best in a vacuum but if BuG is everywhere, Feast or Famine/Body and Mind are excellent, the same with the W swords against swords to plowshares.
That being said, I am testing cutting the equipment package for now, I don't think they really help in many of our problem matchups except for TNN.dumb.dec where they are really good for racing.
Will update with new list soon.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
I'm keen to learn what your outs are to the recent trend in Truenames should you cut equipment, Scryb Ranger, and don't run Dark Depths. I'm not even sure there's much point to running cradle without equipment. But I'd really like for this experiment to be fruitful--it would mean a brace new world for sure.
Zealous persecution! I've always run 2, and they've been great, hit TNN, pyromancers, early mongoose, elves, DnT, empty the warrens, etc.
I've adjusted my list based on nothing but loose assumptions. With Miracles gone I wanted to increase combo-relevant cards:
Maindeck 4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben (+1)
Maindeck 1 Gaddock Teeg (+1)
Sideboard 4 Thoughtseize/Duress (+1)
I moved Gaddock Teeg back to the maindeck, a good toolbox creature due to Sneak Attack, Big Red and Elves (pardon the obviousness of this comment). Thalia Heretic Cathar seems also well positioned (based on my assumptions on the meta), but I'll keep on playing Tireless Tracker for a while in that position. It's a card to consider though, like others have argued.
Another card I'm looking out for is Omniscience (through Show and Tell), it if gains traction I think I may need to put a Trinisphere back into my sideboard (with Enlightened Tutor backup) or double Prelates; Prelate on three is great in that matchup, but not being tutorable comes with a cost.
I saw in Julian Knab's article from yesterday that Grixis Delver was doing well at the MKM Frankfurt event, I lost to a new player with the deck yesterday at the LGS weekly legacy event and it's usually not a particularly good matchup for me. I often get problems with Grixis Delver and UR delver/prowess. I would like to figure out what I can do to improve that matchup.. Maybe Prelates are the answer here too. Or Thalia + Choke.
To conclude I will consider to follow your example and try the Sanctum Prelate.
During the last local tournaments post the Top-ban I've went 3-1 and 2-1-1 (the draw would have been won during the 6th turn of time) so I don't feel that off in the meta, what decks representing halft the meta do you have bad matchups vs?
Ideas are plentyful, I've tried Bant Maverick before and didn't spend enough time to get anywhere. With Leovold there is an incentive [edit: to try dark bant maverick], and I was thinking of swapping Decays for Qasalis (going to 4?) and Deathrites for Nobles, then playing a tropical and some amount of Spell Queller. Spell Quellers with Mother backup, multiple exalted triggers and carrying equipment could be something. Also this enables Invasive Surgery, Flusterstorm etc from the board. Just an idea, since you were asking...
I raced a TNN with Jitte on it yesterday with two KotR's, was rather surprise to have made it (the second KotR turned the game around [edit: and an StP on one of the knights bought me an extra attack during which I would have won]). Otherwise the real threat is usually not TNN but rather the equipment, we can usually make 3 lifepoints a turn or race it. So be sure to play plenty of Qasalis. With that said I wouldn't play without equipment...
Last edited by pettdan; 05-04-2017 at 11:23 AM.
Beating Truenames with equipment is easy--but lavafrogg is testing a zero equipment list, and I know he already doesn't like Scryb. So when BUG toxics the board then drops a Truename how does he plan to beat that?
Without access to either Scryb or a blue sword he is forced to drawing double knight.
If he simply had a blue sword, any dork can race. If he had Jitte instead, he could just search for Scryb to race.
That was more the question.
Yes, thanks for clearing that out, but no one suggested using equipment in their answer, right? I feel like I'm misunderstanding something here.
Come to think of it, I have Titania around for winning in such unfavorable positions, that is just the kind of situation I have her for - unfavorable board state, single game-changing card. The green Entreat the Angels.
Misread your answer, I had thought you were saying you beat Truename with 2 knights and a Jitte--which I was of course going "How could you not?"
I find Truename to be very beatable assuming certain truths are around. For example, if I have a big enough board presence. Or if they only have 2 or less true-names, etc...
But often times games are a lot more gray than that. Youre knights are targetted and a dread of night/eplague/toxic clears some amount of your guys. Your pridemage hits their jitte and suddenly its just true-name vs some mana dorks and a random bear/squire. These are usually the more common game states I find Truenames to be in, and where a blue sword is very helpful in ending.
The sword being blue is not necessary--but with the rise of Leovold + 4Truename lists its something that has to be addressed. And going to zero equipment as LavaFrogg is testing even moreso.
So here’s a little report of MKM Frankfurt, Germany of last weekend:
i think i was the maverick player with the best result?
GW/b
Maindeck:
2 Forrest
1 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Gaeas Cradle
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Noble Hierarch
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scrybranger
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasal Pridemage
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Suns Zenith
1 Sylvan Library
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawas Jitte
Sideboard:
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Containment Priest
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Choke
Results:
Trial 6:1
1:2 P.Fire Maverick
2:1 Lands
2:1 Death and Taxes
2:1 Sneak Show
2:0 Death and Taxes
2:0 Aggro Loam
2:0 Chaos Elves
Main Event 7:3
**Bye**
0:2 Elves
2:0 Sneak Show
2:0 Zombardment (B/R Zombies)
2:0 Lands
2:1 Manaless Dredge
1:2 Food Chain
2:1 Esper Control
1:2 RUG Delver
2:1 Blue Aggro Loam
Thoughts:
Maindeck:
The Theme of the Deck is “Hatebears” - so I want as much as I can fit in
First of all I would never bring less than 2 Qasali Pridemages.
Thalia 2.0 has won me several games just because opponents often can’t come clear with her when she hits the board.
if they can handle her… its just a removal less for our knights which im fine with!
At the tournament I heard a lot of laughing when Sigarda hits the board but opponents were just crying... (had her on board at least in 5 games)
SFM+Equipments are nice to have and with Cradle they can immediately put you in a great spot.
but I wouldn’t up the numbers of SFM – im saying it often: I don’t like SFM package but there is nothing else which we can bring in at the same powerlevel.
Sideboard:
All cards were used very well. The only thing I would change is to remove the oblivion ring and replace it with Toxic Deluge
(Thought I would face more Show and Tell Decks these days but we are fine without em) we need more Massremoval for Elves/TNN bullshit!
The whole tournament went very well. Could have won against Food Chain if he hasn’t drawn all the answers for my threads lategame (had him down to 3 life game 3)
Also could have easily won the last game against RUG Delver if I had drawn an answer for either Nemesis or Sulfuric Vortex. (note to myself – keep in at least 1 Pridemage)
I know that I dodged combo/storm but even when I had to play against them the best thing we can do is to slam ~random~ hatebear turn 2.
if they kill us before our turn 2, we have to live with it and theres not much we can do about it.(thoughtseize turn1… wow) No fear!
IMO - Sanctum Prelate is a good card – but I don’t want to play it mainboard, here I see Gaddock Teeg in this role/spot which I like more (GSZ-able)
I don’t want to have 2/2 vanillas for 3 mana without great impact game one, after sideboarding yes maybe upto to 2 when I know what im against.
~Sky is the Limit~
Skizz
I used to not be a SFM fan. I have changed my tuned however and I see it now as a very important role in any creature based MU. SFM for me has been great against infect/elves (2 not so hot MU) while also giving an edge against any other stoneblade/DNT/goblins/TNN grindfest.
As TMagpie pointed out the swords/jitte are busted and I seem them also playing a role in the "overload with threats" category
This.
Congrats on the tournament and I am glad someone did good with Maverick.
How did you feel against food chain? Walking Basilica looks like a beating on paper, I have yet to play against a Food Chain player live.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
Truename isn't really the issue, truename with equipment is the issue. Multiple Pridemages solve that problem nicely.
My whole argument about Scryb Ranger was before the banning of Miracles, which means it is mostly invalid at this point, but I did state that Scryb Ranger is very good in fair matchups. TNN and Delver are fair matchups, therefore, Scryb Ranger is good. If you check my past few lists you will see that they all have Scryb Ranger.
Also, I am not testing zero equipment, I am testing cutting the equipment package... which is typically 2-3 Stoneforge Mystics and 2-3 Swords/Jitte/Batterskull. I am currently running 3 Jitte, which is much better when drawn naturally especially against all of the fair decks in the format(looking at you DRS).
Stoneforge Mystic is just so slow in most matchups and I know she is a must kill due to her ability(and she is card advantage), but most games Jitte has the versatility to get the job done.
In your scenario with BUG, am I hellbent, are they hellbent, what did they Toxic Deluge away? I am playing multiple Knights and Mirran Crusaders so I could for all reasons just untap and play a Crusader which will race a TNN especially when I am most likely ahead in life. I could very well possibly lose, but so could anyone.
This is the most current list that I have played at an event:
Noble Prelate Maverick
Creatures(26)
2 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
4 Noble Heirarch
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Sanctum Prelate
3 Mirran Crusader
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
Spells(8)
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
Things(3)
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
Lands(23)
2 Forest
2 Plains
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas
4 Savannah
4 Wasteland
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Dryad Arbor
Sideboard(15)
3 Enlightened Tutor
1 Rest in Peace
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Choke
3 Containment Priest
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Council's Judgement
Truename BUG has obvious hate cards in the Sword of Fire and Ice, the Chokes and the Council's Judgement. Things hitting for 3 really just aren't a problem and Mirran Crusader is usually more of an issue for them to deal with than TNN is for us.
Edit: Maverick top 8!
// Deck file for Magic Workstation created with mtgtop8.com
// NAME : Maverick
// CREATOR : Bressan Daniel
// FORMAT : Legacy
1 [R] Bayou
1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
1 [US] Gaea's Cradle
1 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [DK] Maze of Ith
1 [UNH] Plains
1 [R] Scrubland
2 [UNH] Forest
2 [R] Savannah
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
4 [TE] Wasteland
4 [KTK] Windswept Heath
1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
1 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
2 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
2 [] Sanctum Prelate
2 [] Scavenging Ooze
2 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
3 [DKA] Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 [RTR] Deathrite Shaman
4 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
4 [CMD] Mother of Runes
1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
1 [5E] Sylvan Library
4 [] Swords to Plowshares
4 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
SB: 2 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 [RTR] Pithing Needle
SB: 2 [ARB] Zealous Persecution
SB: 2 [RTR] Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 [ISD] Garruk Relentless
SB: 3 [THS] Thoughtseize
SB: 2 [] Sanctum Prelate
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
Love the multiple Ooze, Pridemage and the 2/2 Prelate main/side split, that card is bonkers.
Does have the black splash for zealous and thoughtsieze with tons of hate in the board.
Sweet list.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
Hey Frogg,
thanks! :)
against food chain i would say:
Swords to Plowshares for their Deathrite Shamans
Knights/Wastelands if they make the mistake to fetch nonbasics / tax with Thalia
use Pridemages and Abrupt Decay only for Food Chain
Sword of Fire and Ice (Jitte in some Way) against their Birds
Needle for Balista!
Canonist is very important and shines here as well if they have Food Chain online.
depends on boardstate but Sanctum Prelate on 2 (to shut off their Abrupt Decays) is great / probably on 3 for Food Chain/Plague
also i have brought in Thoughtseize and Choke.
overall i would say its a 50/50 matchup
@Frogg
Misunderstood then. Yeah, the 2-3 Jitte plan over the SFM plan is totally fine. You sacrifice flexibility for more total card slots. I've seen many lists over the years do it.
As someone who ran a list like yours (minus Prelates) for more than a year--I can tell you that Mirran Crusader might seem sexy with exalted Triggers (I ran him with Elspeth to jump for 10 damage a swing), you'll soon realize that he is fairly meaningless for matchups outside of Elves and the mirror. Jund/white lists easily plow him, you're inability to untap him with Scryb matters more often than you'd like, and your matchups against punishing fire decks becomes almost impossible as you have replaced Knights with x/2 beaters who die to burn.
I'm only speaking from experience, so take that as you'd like it. The card is also fairly useless vs Truename decks as they have cantrips and can often find an answer to your Crusader much faster than you find an answer to their Truename. Once again, speaking from my experience running crusaders in maverick for almost two years.
Thanks for the feedback, as much as you have played Mirran in the past, he is bonkers in the current BUG and combo infested meta. He hits super hard in matchups where he cant be blocked and I think that you are seriously doubting the ability of Mom+Prelate in locking down enemy removal spells(and cantrips) while a double striking equipped crusader destroys the board.
Elves are super popular as is BUG, so hedging towards these decks doesn't seem like a bad thing and he is also the fastest clock we can offer against combo decks.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
I don't disagree with any of your comments. Miracles was the last straw that made me cut him because despite how often he died to Bolt (RUG and UWR Delver was popular at that time) I got enough free wins with him to warrant his use. Just sharing my experience is all :)
I love the bastard, and I would probably run him sideboard if I cut black.
Lol!
I cut black!
Perfect!
That being said, zealous persecution and thoughtseize might pull me back....
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
Yeah...
Toxic (for Truename) and Deathrite (for miracles) was what got me to switch to black.
Why would you want toxicdeluge? That sounds like a terrible idea as you are pretty much wrathing yourself, right?
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
I've been a big advocate of this for years. On paper it's contradictory but against troublesome swarm matchups, the collateral of losing 1-2 guys is justified if it means you mop up their board. This is literally the only card guaranteed to ruin elves, as even ZP doesn't kill off x/2 folks. It's also a goddamn house against DnT.
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