I'm guessing it's full of Griseltards.Originally Posted by Echelon
All while people call for a ban of Deathrite? Interesting. People rather play vs. T1 Petal, Tomb, S&T -> Emrakul than vs. T1 Land, DRS, go..? And somehow T1 Land, Delver, go is fine..?
I'd rather see T1 Land, anyCreature, go than T1 S&T, but that might just be me.
Thank you for describing a large part of humanity so eloquently. I suppose this statement has nothing to do with the fact that your one (paper?) deck got severely nerfed? You must be really short-sighted or extremely upset to make this statement. I cannot possibly imagine any sort of meta that would be so different online from paper that nobody would enjoy, be it SnT, other combo and/or Eldrazi infested as it may be. So please, enlighten us.
*Most played
No, miracles was way too good. It is pretty clear, from looking at how the metagame turned out online, that miracles was, on some capacity, needed, as the legacy metagame online is basically modern with an larger card pool.
The most played decks are Show and Tell, ANT, BR Reanimator and various chalice stompy decks.
You want to do your busted thing ASAP, and make the game about as little interaction as possible.
*Also, I sold miracles in paper last november.
can i have ur cardboard and pixels pls
Think I found your problem...
You realise Countertop was an equally busted ASAP thing? Miracles was hardly a hedge against these decks, but rather part of the same non-interactive problem.
It really depends on the matchup, but there's also been a noticeable increase in kill spells among fair decks and those cards often have no text against a combo deck. It went from DRS/Decay/Discard to a mixture of DRS+SCM/Push/Bolt/K-Com/Decay (much fewer of these now). If your deck is going around with that much removal, you're going to have suspect ability to interact with combo [less discard, fewer FoW pitch cards, generally more questionable mana vs turbo Moon decks].
Miracles had two unhealthy effects: it made all Standstill and Blade variants unplayable (in the sense that miracles has more free wins and higher win %age), but most importantly basically everyone had to play Decay (or an uninteractive like CB, Vial, Cavern, Boseju, Chalice) - and this is no longer the case. Even if fair decks want to run all this removal, there's actually way more cards out there which can also have text vs combo, and honestly all that turbo Moon/Chalice stuff might eventually deter them from a hyper-efficient removal color and into using different cards that also have text vs the unfair.
We're kind of in a silly period where fair decks are going nuts with Terror-esque spam instead of asking themselves "what is the meta, and how should I build my deck." I think people will eventually start asking the right questions like: how's my Git. Probe matchup (SnT, Storm, Grixis Pyro), can I beat Elves, what am I doing vs Chalice/Stompy, and does everything done up to this point still have a reasonable Blade control matchup.
If only instead of sdt we banned another card... One that pushed all T1 decks equally instead of just killing the top control deck of the format...
Of course this is probably a temporary meta but damn id this SnT shitshow persist...
Isn't this just the Legacy version of aggro winning week one? Also, Goldfish has Grixis Delver as the #1 deck and BUG Delver at #4, and combined they're a larger share of the meta than ANT+Sneak (#2 and #3). I realize that their data isn't exclusively drawn from online events (and that we could be seeing a 5-0 vs. 'the field' effect), but online has a big effect on their numbers. I don't think it's time to panic.
Except that aggro can be grind out, which is not the case of those decks. And yeah, pretty cool that the only other options seems to be.. Delver deck. Yeah.
All those Miracles players had to go somewhere. I saw the ones in my shop go to Show and Tell and Grixis Delver. They're the two clear 'next-up' best decks, and that's what the Standard format pros play when forced into Legacy anyway.
Are you saying that ANT & Skill and Show can't be hated out?
How long have you actually been playing this format?
I will say this for SnT right now, playing Omni means it has a better chance against DnT than it use to. Still, I would want to be on the DnT side of that match most of the time.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
BUG Delver still wrecks both decks if its set up properly, and while I don't have as much experience with Grixis, it seems pretty similar. Looking at 5-0 lists there seems to be a bit of a lag in the Delver players adopting the sort of aggressively anti-combo MD configurations we typically saw pre-Miracles (when things like 4 Hymn, 2 Pierce BUG Delver maindecks were common). We're still getting a lot of 5-6 spot removal spells rather than 12+ discard+counters.
What you are saying doesn't follow what I had said. Please read correctly next time.
No it doesn't. Bug Delver will fall a lot against S&T or Storm. Grixis has better hate against combo and reach.BUG Delver still wrecks both decks if its set up properly, and while I don't have as much experience with Grixis, it seems pretty similar.
Do people really have such trouble with SnT decks? Like all combo decks it is fragile as hell. If the combo is disrupted it basically does nothing.
Of course it can get that crazy t1 combo off very occasionally, but most of the time they sit there getting whacked for a turn or two, their combo gets disrupted, they spend a couple of turns trying to rebuild and by then they're dead.
It is not about the speed of the deck, but rather how resilient it is. You can't mess with it such easily, the deck can pack a lot of counter and has diversity in its build.
Oh, you are one of those...
Yes, SnT rarely has protection for their combo. :]
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