Yes, and what about that? Heaven // Earth won't kill anything either when it's countered, what is very likely to happen against Delver decks, especially UR or Grixis, non of which contains Leovold, so I hardly see a point here ;)Originally Posted by Skyl3lazer
I'm considering playing Heaven // Earth as one of in main to see how it goes, but I need to get some more data about my current meta before that.
I tried Heaven//Earth at a small tournament, and I finally decided to remove it.
The point is that you mostly want it against decks that also pack things like Rest in Peace or Leyline of the Void.
Therefore, it is a very bad draw if you want to sweep out the nonflying creatures, while a more standard sweeper would be more interesting.
Still, this line of thought is probably guided by the fact that there are numerous D&T in my meta.
Therefore, I think Kozilek's Return remains better.
If you include Heaven/Earth in the 75, I think it should be in the main, because of it's playability from the graveyard.
(EDIT: and not specifically with D&T in mind, because youre right, it wont sweep through RIP or Leyline).
A few sideboarding/build questions:
* Against Storm, do you generally Chalice on 0 or 1?
* Do you bring in Sphere of resistance against Elves?
* If you were going to dedicate 1 SB slot to D&T, would you prefer Molten Vortex, Seismic Assault, or Kozilek's Return? Assume a pretty stock main with 4 Punishing Fire/No Enchantments. As a follow-up to that question, would a 3/1 Split of Fires to Molten Vortex be better?
I'm headed to Louisville this weekend, trying to finalize my list after having not played Legacy since the GP earlier this year. I'm considering a rather heavy anti-combo board, something along the lines of:
4 Tracker
4 Chalice
3 Sphere
3 Grip
1 D&T Slot
Against storm I usually drop Chalice at 1. Of course it does impact our game plan but I think it slow Storm more than us and we can go faster with Mana denial backup.
Against Elves, usually do bring in Sphere ! Sphere will slow lot of its key-spell and might give a small window to assemble our kill.
Against D&T, I would definitly choose Molten Vortex, it is really huge in this MU.
I know I don't play the same sideboard than you, but anyway, here is my sideboard and my sideboarding plan for Storm, D&T and Elves. Maybe it will help you (PS I play 4 Molten and 0 Punishing Fire, but I think a split Punishing/Vortex is better, something like 3 Punishing and 1-2 Vortex).
4 Tireless Tracker
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Naturalize // Krosan Grip
3 Sphere of Resistance
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Walking Ballista
*** DEATH & TAXES ***
They will side-in Rest in Peace
Draw fast with Tracker, they can chump block all day long
+3 Grip +4 Tracker +3 Revoker (Vial/Mother) +1 Ballista
-4 Crop -1 Academy -1 Bojuka -1 Chasm -2 Maze -2 Thicket
*** ELVES ***
1. Find Tabernacle
2. Kill Elves (ASAP)
3. Wasteland/Port Gaeas
+3 Sphere +1 Chalice +3 Revoker (Insect/Shaman/Mana-producer) +1 Ballista
-1 Exploration -1 Bojuka -1 Karakas -2 Maze -1 Port -2 Thicket
*** STORM ***
1. Play your hate !
2. Mana Denial (Revoker, Chalice @0-1 and Explosives @0)
3. Combo off
+3 Sphere +1 Chalice +3 Revoker (LED/Petal)
-4 Vortex -1 Karakas -2 Maze
OTP +3 Tracker -1 Barbarian -1 Academy -1 Thicket
IT IS TWO AND A HALF MINUTES TO MIDNIGHT
I definitely disagree with boarding out crop rotations in the D&T matchup. It's often what you need to find your barbarian ring or the grove to get fires going. It's your emergency button and they have no interaction with it whatsoever. Also maze is great in the matchup, often buying you lots of time to find what you need.
Against D&T I usually find myself boarding:
-1 Bog
-1 Chasm
-2 Ghost Quarter
-1 Manabond
-1 Ancient Tomb
+3 Krosan Grip
+2 Revoker
+2 Warping Wail
I'm not playing any trackers right now, though.
I also like Chalice 0 against storm. Leaving gamble and crop rotation open is huge for us, and with LED out of the picture it makes it harder for them to get hellbent.
My board is similar to yours.
4 tireless tracker
4 Sphere of resistance
3 krosan grip
2 chalice of the void
1 kozileks return
1 ancient tomb
Against storm I think chalice on 1 is generically better, but sometimes the opening hand has a lot of crop rotations or gambles, so I'll play the chalice on zero. I think it's still good, and IMO it makes mana denial with port a better plan.
I don't bring in spheres against elves because I think our tutors are very good in this MU and I don't want to tax them. They have no ways to interact with our lands, so chasm can buy us enough time to really go to town with mana denial and punishing fires.
I like to find room for 4 punishing fire and 1 molten vortex, just because I really like having a plethora of answers to an early DRS. If we're gonna be soft to combo game 1 I think we have to make up for it by beating the snot out of fair decks, which IMO means sufficient removal. 3/1 is probably probably fine though, and IMO better than 4/0.
I'm a big fan of K return as my DnT hate card, but this goes back to my obsession with playing a lot (too much?) removal. I like to bring in 4 trackers, 3 grips and the K return. I board out 1 chasm, 1 bog, 1 karakas (if it's main), 2 dark depths (down to 2 copies) 1 thespians stage, 1 manabond, and 1 cycling land (or gamble). I think it's a little unorthodox to board out so many copies of the combo, but I usually take a very controlling approach to the MU since going for an early Marit Lage is likely to leave us very far behind if it gets answered, which it almost assuredly will. I just try and grind my opponent into the dirt. I like to sandbag Grip for high value targets (like RiP) rather than just going after the first target they present. Crop rotation is clutch for finding tabernacles, mazes, groves, stages to make extra mazes etc so keep all 4. Gamble finds our molten vortex, K return, K grips etc.
Kennan Haas took down an scg classic with his smallpox deck, not directly RG-related but it's always fun to see the crazier stuff he gets up to.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...?DeckID=113746
Considering all Leovold-Nemezis-Delver issues discussed recently, as well as mindblowing amount of various Delver decks in tops of the tournaments all over the world, I'd like to know your thoughts about Magnetic Mountain :)
I cant see myself adding any creature handling cards that dont handle DRS.
I like this deck a lot, but I think it does the same thing as our deck (controlling creatures, denying mana and combofinishing), but only less explosive. Which matchup would be more favorable playing Jund Depths than Lands?
When it comes to Arabian Nights enchantments, Drop of Honey is probably the superior choice.
I've messed around with it in the past around the last time he top 8'd with it and I'd agree with your general assessment. It's slower but the entomb package is really flexible while being very powerful. Decks weak to smallpox were also a lot of fun to play against. I was playing it when infect was really popular and there were a few people who scooped matches online as soon as they saw that card.
I'd probably put it in the same category as RUG lands. Likely not better than RG in a vacuum but given the right meta and a capable pilot it's a defensible choice.
Speaking of weird Lands-y decks, I had to post this recent list I saw. 46 person tournament and isn't really an R/G Lands deck but I thought you guys would appreciate it.
// Creature (4)
4 Knight of the Reliquary
// Instant (7)
3 Punishing Fire
4 Crop Rotation
// Sorcery (7)
3 Life from the Loam
4 Living Wish
// Enchantment (5)
1 Sylvan Library
4 Exploration
// Artifact (4)
4 Mox Diamond
// Land (33)
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Karakas
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Savannah
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Rishadan Port
2 Taiga
3 Dark Depths
3 Maze of Ith
3 Thespian's Stage
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Wasteland
// Sideboard
SB: 1 Dark Depths
SB: 1 Thespian's Stage
SB: 1 Ghost Quarter
SB: 1 Containment Priest
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Molten Vortex
SB: 1 Reclamation Sage
SB: 4 Chalice of the Void
SB: 4 Krosan Grip
Yep, I'm playing that at some point. Thanks for the link Scott.
Awesome, hope the spicy brew treats you well.
After coming out of streaming hibernation (while preparing for the PT), I've been streaming a bunch of Legacy, and some with Lands.
I also lost playing for t8 of the Classic to Legacy teammate for our Team open team (on Landstill) because I decided to play real bad.
In any case, here's what I've been playing, and I think it's quite strong:
//35
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Dark Depths
2 Taiga
1 Sheltered Thicket
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Windswept Heath
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Forest
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Maze of Ith
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Barbarian Ring
//25
4 Gamble
4 Crop Rotation
4 Punishing Fire
4 Exploration
4 Mox Diamond
4 Life from the Loam
1 Manabond
Sideboard
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Sphere of Resistance
1 Chalice of the Void
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Pithing Needle
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Krosan Grip
1 Ancient Tomb
There was tons of Delver / 3-4c Good Stuff in the Open and Classic, and I expect that to remain the same for the Grand Prix in Las Vegas as well.
Hey Jarvis, what are your thoughts on the Sheltered Thicket? How often did you use it as a source of mana or fetched it out as opposed to a higher cost cycler with some upside? I haven't had a chance to test one myself yet but plan on doing so.
It's basically a split card. ETBT Taiga // bad cycling land is good enough for me to play exactly 1. The fact that it's fetchable means you can find a turn where you don't need all of your mana to fetch it.
I personally play 2 and no Tranquil Thicket. After a few tests, I will definitely stick with this card rather than Tranquil Thicket. For me, the advantages are:
* Makes you keep some hands that you would normally have thrown.
* Activates on colorless, saving your Taigas for Molten Vortex activations.
* More red sources (Vortex/PF again).
* The fetches rarely become dead cards.
I personally think this are enough reasons to favor it over the Onslaught land.
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