All B/R update speculation.

[CptHaddock]

Not Legacy, but there has been an update for the 1v1 Commander MTGO list:

Seems like a good change. I'm sure this is coming in a bigger update next month but 50 counterspell Baral/Tasigur decks are not really fun to play against.

[sjmcc13]

Because Commander is still really meant to be a creature-based format. Moat and Tabernacle straight neuter some Commanders right off the bat.

EDH isn't supposed to be Highlander with a General.

Having to run answers for various card types should still be expected.

Banning Moat is just saying it is alright to ONLY run answers to creatures and walkers, Pretty much every time I build an EDH deck I include Nev's Disk, O. stone and some other sweeper effects I can use to wipe the board at some point and recover better than my opponent.

I mean, if you die to Moat, how do you handle Island sanctuary with card advantage (and TNN)?

[H]

Having to run answers for various card types should still be expected.

Banning Moat is just saying it is alright to ONLY run answers to creatures and walkers, Pretty much every time I build an EDH deck I include Nev's Disk, O. stone and some other sweeper effects I can use to wipe the board at some point and recover better than my opponent.

If you run mono-Black or Mono-Red your answers to enchantments is a very tiny list. I'm not saying I agree with the bans, but I am just trying to offer you a plausible reason why they did it.

I mean, if you die to Moat, how do you handle Island sanctuary with card advantage (and TNN)?

Just have your deck not have awful cards like Island Sanctuary or TNN and just win?

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

The initial list appeared to be patterned partially off the French list (which is why food chain is also gone) so, if you wanted to, you could dig up the reasons on that site.

That said, why WOTC thought strip mine and DTT would be okay, I don't really understand.

Because it's an online only format that Wizard's is fucking with. Why does it matter? No one I know off line pays attention to this. If it's an issue online, well that's a topic for those who are masochistic enough to play with that program. In that case this is the lest of their issues.

To be fair, the format is pretty fun (in my limited experience with it), and hopefully MTGO support might encourage people to play it in paper.

[Crimhead]

Because Commander is still really meant to be a creature-based format. Moat and Tabernacle straight neuter some Commanders right off the bat.

WotC wants all MTG to be creature based, but until this shit started happening eternal formats were never subject to this.

Have they stated explicitly that they want this to be a creature format? All they seem to be saying is that they want a "fun and balanced metagame". Who could argue with that?

If you think this cancer cannot spread to other eternal formats, I envy your optimism.

If you run mono-Black or Mono-Red your answers to enchantments is a very tiny list.

The "answers" to Moat include every flying creature ever printed (as well as non combat victory conditions).

This is fun policing straight up.

[CptHaddock]

This is fun policing straight up.

OTHER
Ancestral Recall
Back to Basics
Balance
Humility
Karakas
Library of Alexandria
Mana Drain
Mind Twist
Moat
Natural Order
Necropotence
Oath of Druids
Serra Ascendant
The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Time Walk
This is a catch-all category of cards that are either blatantly too strong (Ancestral Recall, Time Walk), or are very strong but extremely unenjoyable to play against (Karakas, Mind Twist). As mentioned above, the threshold for banning cards is lower when they're particularly frustrating to play against. All the cards in that category are very strong, but the way they warp the format is less about creating imbalance and more about making the format less enjoyable overall.

Have they claimed otherwise?

[Crimhead]

Have they claimed otherwise?

Certainly they have not!

But in the past they haven't pushed "fun" like this in eternal formats.

1 vs 1 Commander is not a casual format like multiplayer. This is competitive eternal magic being fun policed. Brace...

[MGB]

Here's what I would like to see happen (it'll open the Floodgates of Hell, but whatever):

Legacy:

Survival of the Fittest is unbanned.
Mind Twist is unbanned.
Mind's Desire is unbanned.
Yawgmoth's Bargain is unbanned.
Earthcraft is unbanned.
Mana Drain is unbanned.
Goblin Recruiter is unbanned.

Sensei's Divining Top is banned.
Show and Tell is banned.

Give this man the prize!

[Lord Seth]

Over a month with no posts in this thread? Is this some kind of record?

[tescrin]

If I was to whine in here, it'd be GProbe. I can't say it's OP or over-used in general, but you'll be hard pressed to make it through an MTGO match without being Probed T0. Very annoying for people to constantly have perfect information for 0 mana. I can't say it makes people win all the time, but it does make the game worse. It's the True-Name of sorceries; but better.

I won't be surprised to hear people not thinking it's ban-worthy; but I will be surprised to hear anyone thinking it makes the game better.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

Legacy is actually really great right now so it makes sense that this thread is quiet. The only really concerning thing in any format at the moment is vintage which continues to be atrocious unless you only play in one of the mythical paper metas that don't suck.

[PirateKing]

Over a month with no posts in this thread? Is this some kind of record?

ban Island

[Stuart]

Legacy is actually really great right now so it makes sense that this thread is quiet. The only really concerning thing in any format at the moment is vintage which continues to be atrocious unless you only play in one of the mythical paper metas that don't suck.

I'm in one of those metas and enjoy Vintage, but yeah "Shop vs Mentor: The Format" seems shitty.

No real Legacy complaints. I'll be annoyed if anything in the existing card pool gets banned in the next 6-12 months, barring a new printing breaking something. Maybe we'll actually see some unbans!

[Dice_Box]

As I said on the cast, Gush was not the card to restrict.

I actually have a post lined up for this thread, but it's a timed thing. Someone set down a challenge, I can't wait to meet it.

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

I'm still mystified as to why they decided to restrict Probe and not misstep if they wanted to restrict one of the free spells.

[Dice_Box]

Yep. And at some point they will have to take out Mentor. At that point I would like Gush back and given "Pillar" status. Just don't touch it. It's a fine card. If you are not taking our Shop or Bazaar, leave Gush in the format too for those who want to play those Blue tempo decks.

[Megadeus]

If I was to whine in here, it'd be GProbe. I can't say it's OP or over-used in general, but you'll be hard pressed to make it through an MTGO match without being Probed T0. Very annoying for people to constantly have perfect information for 0 mana. I can't say it makes people win all the time, but it does make the game worse. It's the True-Name of sorceries; but better.

I won't be surprised to hear people not thinking it's ban-worthy; but I will be surprised to hear anyone thinking it makes the game better.

I absolutely agree. The card is dumb as fuck. The upside to it being banned is I don't think it would really outright kill any deck. It would just #MakeCabalTherapySkillIntensiveAgain. It's been proven to be too good for modern and vintage, don't see why people wouldn't see it as a busted card in legacy.

Also I find it interesting that even 1v1 edh has banned ponder preordain, and brainstorm, and if you read the reasons why, it's basically verbatim the reasons that Nedleeds has said that those cards have ruined legacy. Promoting the same play patterns each game, making blue too good, giving card selection that isn't available elsewhere

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

WOTC has admitted they aren't particularly going to try and make 1v1 balanced for competitive play (for fucks same, they announce it's bannings on a tumbr page) so I wouldn't exactly point to that as proof those cards are too good.

Probe is such an odd ban, sure it's annoying, sure it's bad design, but unless you are abusing the fact it's free (I.E. using it with therapy, fueling T. Cruise/DTT, or pyromancer), it's just air in your deck and is simply okay. For that matter it's restriction in vintage had possibly the most laughable justification for a ban/restriction since the gentlemans agreement with mystical tutor.

[Megadeus]

WOTC has admitted they aren't particularly going to try and make 1v1 balanced for competitive play (for fucks same, they announce it's bannings on a tumbr page) so I wouldn't exactly point to that as proof those cards are too good.

Probe is such an odd ban, sure it's annoying, sure it's bad design, but unless you are abusing the fact it's free (I.E. using it with therapy, fueling T. Cruise/DTT, or pyromancer), it's just air in your deck and is simply okay. For that matter it's restriction in vintage had possibly the most laughable justification for a ban/restriction since the gentlemans agreement with mystical tutor.

All of these cards are banned or restricted outside of legacy for good reason. The only reason they haven't been in legacy is because they're afraid people would quit the format. Because Brainstorm and Ponder certainly have proven that they are more than ban worthy in legacy just as they are banned and restricted in modern, vintage, and even 1v1 edh

[taconaut]

All of these cards are banned or restricted outside of legacy for good reason. The only reason they haven't been in legacy is because they're afraid people would quit the format. Because Brainstorm and Ponder certainly have proven that they are more than ban worthy in legacy just as they are banned and restricted in modern, vintage, and even 1v1 edh

Those cards being banned are part of why modern is miserable, though. I don't play vintage, so I can't really speak to that.