[Primer] Nic Fit

[Bobmans]

Huntmaster is bad these days. Losing Top means losing Huntmaster, effectively, since you lose the only way we had to abuse him (both to guarantee flips easily and also to accrue value while passing the turn to flip him). Even before, though, Huntmaster was falling out of favor pretty badly. He just doesn't keep up with the power creep in today's world.

I disagree, Huntmaster didnt need top, it needed PFire more then anything. It still races fair decks and Burn and always happy to land it vs combo. DnT should fear the card and it doesn't care for TNN.

Btw, I tried your stream shortly after you mentioned it, but it kept saying offline.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G935F met Tapatalk

[Echelon]

I disagree, Huntmaster didnt need top, it needed PFire more then anything. It still races fair decks and Burn and always happy to land it vs combo. DnT should fear the card and it doesn't care for TNN.

Btw, I tried your stream shortly after you mentioned it, but it kept saying offline.

Doesn't matter. Siege Rhino is there to solve all your problems.

We might have to start considering reinstating Ricardio as high priest for the church of our lord and savior, Siege Rhino.

[Bobmans]

Doesn't matter. Siege Rhino is there to solve all your problems.

We might have to start considering reinstating Ricardio as high priest for the church of our lord and savior, Siege Rhino.

On top of that, I'd rather play Groves then Pollute that manabase with White.

[rubblekill]

On top of that, I'd rather play Groves then Pollute that manabase with White.

But..but Groves is the exact definition of mana base pollution. A scrubland isn't exactly so problematic, and the same can be said for 1 plains, unless you play BB cards such as hymns or lotv.

[Bobmans]

But..but Groves is the exact definition of mana base pollution. A scrubland isn't exactly so problematic, and the same can be said for 1 plains, unless you play BB cards such as hymns or lotv.

No, Sneak builds are heavy on both red and Green, Scrubland adds shit.

[Ganfar]

No, Sneak builds are heavy on both red and Green, Scrubland adds shit.

Do you play Sneak Fit now?

P.Fire and Huntermaster is the shit

[Echelon]

Speaking of shit.

The Pod lists - didn't we already conclude that the Delve critter plan didn't really work..?

I mean, if it would have we would've just gone Fierce Empath -> Tasigur into Elesh Norn or Empath -> Gurmag Angler into Griselbrand. C'mon.

[Navsi]

Man, I really don't understand what you guys' obsession with Rhinos is. Especially splashing them in Jund, come on. The matchup Rhino's presence improves is primarily delver, and if you want to beat Delver more reliably making your mana base way more clunky is not the way to do it. Just play more one mana removal spells (or decays) if the matchup is that much of a problem for you.

[Bobmans]

Do you play Sneak Fit now?

P.Fire and Huntermaster is the shit

I play everything... Except Blue....
Switching to Sneak from PFire Jund was just buying Sneak Attacks.... lol

[square_two]

Man, I really don't understand what you guys' obsession with Rhinos is. Especially splashing them in Jund, come on. The matchup Rhino's presence improves is primarily delver, and if you want to beat Delver more reliably making your mana base way more clunky is not the way to do it. Just play more one mana removal spells (or decays) if the matchup is that much of a problem for you.

1 Plains + 1 Savannah isn't really that crazy. Besides the drain (which so far feels relevant every time it happens), my build being able to run 2 Painful Truths is pretty hot (and 1 Deluge, though that is less consequential). And not having to rely on 5cmc Thragtusk as the primary option for lifegain.

Will see how it goes after more testing.

What I've been surprised with, is how bad Diabolic Intent has been for me. Out of over a dozen matches so far, all it's done is screw me against combo when things don't line up as they should. Maybe just bad luck with those games - heck I faced back to back BR Reanimator last night and got owned, and that is after adding 2 more fast grave hate to my sideboard. Maybe it'll be sooner rather than later that I just breakdown and splash blue in Sneak Fit...just for Brainstorms.

Edit: The high points keep me going. Had a game against Merfolk where they attacked all-out thinking that they had lethal. Surprise! Sneak in Deathrite for gain 2, next turn I have lethal attack of my own.

[Luthiereisfun]

I'm not a fan of splashing white in Jund. Most builds I prefer stick to 3 color.

Regarding Rhino I think the lifegain is relevant and I think it craps all over TNN which is certainly not nothing.

[Ricardio]

So... GB Fit wants to be Rhino Fit and Sneak Fit is slowly morphing into Semi-Rhino Fit..?

Cool.

One of us.....one of us.....

[Ganfar]

I play everything... Except Blue....
Switching to Sneak from PFire Jund was just buying Sneak Attacks.... lol

I can get the deck also if I buy Sneak Attack. I have all the cards.

How do your deck look like? Have you posted it here?

[Dalton!]

I don't think it is right to turn Siege Rhino into Sneak Rhino. I believe we should stay Jund and focus more on making the Combo fast and consistent.
I will test 3 or more Tireless Tracker to drown the opponent in card Advantage and give them something to fight with.

[Bobmans]

I can get the deck also if I buy Sneak Attack. I have all the cards.

How do your deck look like? Have you posted it here?

obviously one would still require Emrakul, Fierce Empath, Inferno Titan, Woodland Bellower, Grave Titan/Wurmcoil Engine. Other then that, the deck shares the same cardpool. I sent you a PM with the list.

[Arianrhod]

Just 5-0'd a league with the list I posted last night. Didn't stream it because I didn't think I'd even have time to finish it, but it moved swiftly, so, hey.

Faced:

BUG Delver
Burn
Burn
Maverick
UR Delver

Kommand overperformed, as did the 2nd Witness, so those seem like good changes (small sample size, yada yada, but...). Rhino continued to be good, but, I mean, look at those matchups. I both kind of missed Tracker and kind of didn't. Painful Truths never got cast. Intent was great, as always, and both Titans got some time in the sun.

I continue to want to be straight Jund. But for right now, I don't think that we're there yet. Kommand was a very important puzzle piece, but there's at least one or two more pieces that need to fall into place before we can go back to pure Jund, I think.

[Brael]

Just 5-0'd a league with the list I posted last night. Didn't stream it because I didn't think I'd even have time to finish it, but it moved swiftly, so, hey.

Faced:

BUG Delver
Burn
Burn
Maverick
UR Delver

Kommand overperformed, as did the 2nd Witness, so those seem like good changes (small sample size, yada yada, but...). Rhino continued to be good, but, I mean, look at those matchups. I both kind of missed Tracker and kind of didn't. Painful Truths never got cast. Intent was great, as always, and both Titans got some time in the sun.

I continue to want to be straight Jund. But for right now, I don't think that we're there yet. Kommand was a very important puzzle piece, but there's at least one or two more pieces that need to fall into place before we can go back to pure Jund, I think.

Have you ever considered Trinisphere?

[Arianrhod]

Have you ever considered Trinisphere?

In some of the colorless builds as a sideboard option, yeah. It's not awful and probably better with Dryad Arbor in the deck now, giving a ton of paths to 3 mana on turn 2. I'm unsure if it's better than anything else in the board currently, though.

[pettdan]

@Arianrhod: very nice streaming yesterday, I was watching too. Do keep us posted!

I was wondering if you ever tried replacing tops with 2 Coursers and 1 Tracker (presumably next to the one already in most lists)? I've wanted to try it but haven't gotten around to it yet, it just seems that gaining life, providing a good blocker while also helping manipulate card draw and providing card advantage (that's the Courser, yes) should help the game plan in multiple ways. And since the second Courser in play is not very useful I thought the Trackers would be good, especially since Courser is a must-remove so the Tracker may stay around and she either way has synergy with the Courser. I would see Courser in the Sneaky Fit list as a Rhino with card advantage, of course Rhino wins games but in a Sneak Attack list its primary reason for inclusion is surviving the mid game with life gain and being a good blocker - dealing damage is not to be neglected but Courser comes cheaper, without splashing AND providing card advantage. Now I think I just convinced myself to try the list with Coursers over a Rhino, too.

[Arianrhod]

@Arianrhod: very nice streaming yesterday, I was watching too. Do keep us posted!

I was wondering if you ever tried replacing tops with 2 Coursers and 1 Tracker (presumably next to the one already in most lists)? I've wanted to try it but haven't gotten around to it yet, it just seems that gaining life, providing a good blocker while also helping manipulate card draw and providing card advantage (that's the Courser, yes) should help the game plan in multiple ways. And since the second Courser in play is not very useful I thought the Trackers would be good, especially since Courser is a must-remove so the Tracker may stay around and she either way has synergy with the Courser. I would see Courser in the Sneaky Fit list as a Rhino with card advantage, of course Rhino wins games but in a Sneak Attack list its primary reason for inclusion is surviving the mid game with life gain and being a good blocker - dealing damage is not to be neglected but Courser comes cheaper, without splashing AND providing card advantage. Now I think I just convinced myself to try the list with Coursers over a Rhino, too.

Might be worth a shot. Courser has underwhelmed in the past, but so did Kommand when we tried it pre-Top era, and Kommand seems great now.

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Eternal Witness
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Fierce Empath
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Thragtusk
1 Inferno Titan
1 Grave Titan
1 Woodland Bellower
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Diabolic Intent
1 Toxic Deluge

2 Abrupt Decay
2 Kolaghan's Command

4 Sneak Attack
3 Pernicious Deed

1 Dryad Arbor

4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Phyrexian Tower
3 Bayou
2 Taiga
1 Badlands
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain

sb::
2 Lost Legacy
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
2 Blood Moon
2 Fatal Push
1 To the Slaughter
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Carpet of Flowers

This is where I'm currently looking at for a list without any white in it -- so you could say this is the target list. I don't know if it'll work yet or if we need to figure out more things, but it's a rough goal.

Quick hits:

-) Deathrite has underwhelmed me for the last time. Without the Rhinos in the deck to necessitate the extra fringe white source, I'm over this guy. I'm not even sure why were were still running him in the first place after Miracles went away. Moving this slot to Scavenging Ooze, which is a card that I've historically also disliked. I think that fringe graveyard advantages are becoming much more important, though -- Snapcaster, Renegade Rallier, etc. Ooze gives us a way to fight their graveyard-based card advantage. It's also obviously fringe useful against other things in the format, like lands, storm, reanimator, etc (at least in a % of games where we don't just die / they don't just have it).

-) Trackers -- I didn't super miss him when I ran 5-0 without one in the list, but I think that they might be the best thing we've got to fill that midgame hole left behind without Rhino. Thrag comes back for the same reason -- midgame dude, gains life. Ooze also helps with the lifegain a bit. They're not Rhino, though :(

-) Meren is back. I think that Kommand helps push her a bit, since there's more ways of reviving her if she dies, and Meren + E.Wit (of which there is a 2nd copy now) has always been nonsense. At the end of the day, she's still good card advantage and a value monster, and that's what we're in the market for at the moment. Some of my decision here is that between my three leagues I've played so far, I've had Deathrite Shaman survive / activate a very small handful of times. The deck is very, very hostile to Deathrite's survival, which I think might mean we can get away with Meren.

-) Thorn in the board is likely wrong, but I'm lazy and about to head out the door, so I can't think of anything better. I do like the idea of 3ball, but at the same time I don't feel like it affects a ton of decks, it plays super poorly with Vet vs combo, and it can't be played off t1 Vet t2 Intent. I THINK Hymn to Tourach as a singleton is actually the best use of this slot, but I need to ponder that a bit more before putting it in.

-) Duskwatch Recruiter is on my radar. I think that he'll probably miss too often to justify running him, but he's on the table for consideration if anyone wants to try him and report back.