From my experience, BUG still has big issues with wurmcoil and sundering titan, with or without leovold. So, I've kept running 3 wurm main, 1 in the board, and even 1 batterskull in the board, and I seem to fair just fine with BUG. Burn is always gonna be rough, if they drop a price of progress. And DnT is a weird match, it is what it is.Originally Posted by Jakobian1010
BR reanimater has changed my board grave hate to all faerie macbres, and I board into super control. Board in thorn, sphere, etc and just sit back, and beat them down with metalworker I you have to. And bring in revoker for the sneak backup plan. As long as they don't get the nuts turn 1 kill and you have any lock piece to drop turn 1, you should be ok.
This interests me. Can you post your list? I cut Thorns etc from my board a while ago, because I found I needed extra space for cards for fair matchups.
#
Also, this list intrigues the hell out of me.
Last edited by Stuart; 04-18-2017 at 05:30 PM.
I've been rocking a pretty regular list. As of lately, I've taken first place at the last 4 of my local 20+ man weekly tournaments that I've been to.
4x metalworker
4x lodestone golem
4x kuldotha forgemaster
3x wurmcoil engine
1x blightsteel colossus
1x steel hellkite
1x platinum emperion
1x sundering titan
4x chalice of the void
4x grim monolith
3x trinisphere
2x lightning greaves
2x ugin, the spirit dragon
1x staff of domination
1x spine of ish sah
4x ancient tomb
4x cloudpost
4x glimmerpost
3x vesuva
3x city of traitors
3x cavern of souls
3x wasteland
Board-
4x faerie macabre
1x wurmcoil engine
1x batterskull
2x phyrexian revoker
2x sphere of resistance
1x crucible of worlds
2x warping wail
2x ensnaring bridge
Extra notes. Debating cutting e-bridge again, because all I ever want it for is against dark depths, and sneak and show. It doesn't do anything vs reanimater, it doesn't get out fast enough and they run tidespout tyrant. Thinking about maybe running more fair fighting stuff. Ugin and steel hellkite have been complete saviors against dnt, bug, and other fair matches. Since making the jump from 1 boots to 2, will never go back.
Last edited by BlackHawkX9; 04-19-2017 at 01:23 PM.
Hello everybody!
I just procrastinated when it came to trying out MGBs Legend MUD list, but i finally got to try it!
However i had to do a few cuts and switch out some cards.
i ran this list!
Land (24)
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Cloudpost
1x Crystal Vein
1x Eldrazi Temple
1x Eye of Ugin
4x Glimmerpost
2x Karakas
3x Vesuva
Artifact (20)
2x Basalt Monolith
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Grim Monolith
2x Pithing Needle
2x Thran Dynamo
4x Trinisphere
2x Voltaic Key
Planeswalker (7)
4x Karn Liberated
3x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Creature (9)
1x Emrakul, the Promised End
1x Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
2x Kozilek, the Great Distortion
4x Thought-Knot Seer
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Sideboard (15)
1x Coercive Portal
3x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Faerie Macabre
2x Phyrexian Revoker
2x Powder Keg
3x Wurmcoil Engine
Changes i had to make because of not having the cards:
- 1 Emrakul, the Promised End
- 1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
- 1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
- 1 Crystal Vein
- 2 Voltaic Key
switched for
+1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
+1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
+1 Karn
+1 Eldrazi Temple
+2 Pithing Needle
I felt like a Ulamog would be nice in the main deck, that repeatable spotremoval can be quite huge and advantageous. Sadly
i do not have a second Emrakul and i didn't want to force the OG Emrakul, it felt too expensive.
Kozilek, this is what i had and i quite like him, never got to draw him, i guess that's fine? Yes, it does not protect your board
and counter stuff, but i figured its better than nothing, and one swing can change the game.
Plus he draws cards even if i have 7 cards in hand.
I do not have 4 Ugins so i tried out a fourth Karn. Thing is we have a few Eldrazi players so i felt like it wasn't the dumbest
of choices.
Eldrazi Temple: I figured since all the creature spells we have are Eldrazi, this as a one of Solland for that creaturetype
ain't that bad and i don't have to sacrifice it to gain that extra mana.
Yes, it sucks if im short 1 mana for Karn or Ugin, and it does not enable a Turn 1 chalice or Turn 2 Sphere, but this is what i
had at home so.
Oh and the two Pithing Needles instead of Voltaic, i didn't have 4 Voltaics so i added two needles because i felt they
could protect me against wasteland and was just a nice answer in general towards many decks.
It filled the same kind of function when i have a Kozilek, the Great Distortion active as well.
Sideboard:
4 Faerie Macabre instead of 4 Leyline of the Void.
- I simple do not have 4 Leylines, luckily there's like no dredge players around in our meta so i figured i can pack these.
And they can remove cards from the stormplayers and Reanimator players, which we have a few of.
2 Powder Keg instead of 1 Coercive Portal and 1 Ensnaring Bridge
These were just cute additions, i kinda realised their limitations when i fought a monoblack player because i couldn't
destroy his Lilianas or his Phyrexian Arenas, but they did the job and saved me because i could blow up his Bloodghasts.
MGBs OG list that i copied:
Sideboard (15)
2x Coercive Portal
4x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Leyline of the Void
2x Phyrexian Revoker
3x Wurmcoil Engine
And i even got to play some legacy last night!
i Faced of round 1 against a Miracle (mentor version) player and had to mull to five to get a somewhat decent hand.
Got an early Trinisphere followed up by a Thought Knot Seer, but i managed to sword it, find his 1 of Council's Judgement
and take over the game with mentor and top.
Not my game at all...
Game 2 i managed to get 3 cloudposts in a row so he couldn't really counter my mana rocks to stop my lategame.
Thing is he boarded in 2 Back to Basics and it totally hosed me.
I even managed to get to 8 mana with the Back to Basics out, him having a mentor out with 1 white up, i figured
this was my chance but no.
He forced my Ugin. I had 17 mana or so that i couldn't use. He killed me Shortly after with his army of monks.
0-1 :/
Next match was against a newcomer to the legacy scene. I got a trinisphere out but he managed to stick Two early Grave crawlers
which killed me because i never got anything but manaproducing cards.
I saw his deck before the tournament and it was like, 20 onedrops or so, so i kept chalice and Trinispheres.
I didn't sideboard in Wurmcoils because i was afraid of his Obliterators, but now that i think of it, it would only be a problem if he had
two out.
Anyway, i sideboarded in my Powder Kegs and they did slow down the game a bit. Managed to keep his Bloodghasts off me.
Some bad decisions after thoughtseize gave me the win.
Last game he mulled to five and only got a Bloodghast, a Thoughtseize and lands. I proceeded to play early Ugin into Eldrazi.
I hope i'll see him again for some more Legacy. Sadly we have Legacy like once a month here... Next month we won't
even have any legacy.
1-1.
Third match was ELVES! Those pesky little things. He got some early Dryad Arbours out and proceeded with the beatdown.
I managed to land an Ugin when i was at 1 life and stabilize, phew.
Boarded in some powderkegs, blow it up at 1 is quite the value, same at 0 if he plays Dryad arbors.
Even Through my Trinisphere he managed to finally get mana towards a Natural Order and kill me with his Hoof and trees.
:(
I manaflooded and he couldn't play anything because of Chalice on 1, he even had pithing needle for my ugin. I kept this in mind in
game 3.
Game 3 i ramped, he got a Sylvan Library out, Deathrite shaman, Dryadarbor, some other elves and what not.
I managed to Stick an Ugin, exile all his coloured permanents and next turn i Ulamoged away his bayous and left him with a Cradle.
He wasn't very glad and i could see he did not like ugin. No rematch for fun either.
2-1!
Last match and i just hoped for the stormplayer.
and i got it!
Chalice on one, it stuck. Proceeded to play Trinisphere, he scooped.
Next turn i manaramped with rocks and Voltaic Key into a really early Emrakul, i think it was turn 3 or 4.
I think i sneaked in a Trinisphere as well, it did slow him down.
He lost because he played a Duress intead of a Cabal Therapy, and his words was: What's the chance that he'll have two Trinispheres?...
Haha.
Well, as the spoiler said, after i slammed Emrakul i got the handshake and he said GG.
3-1!
Summary:
I like the deck but sometimes i had to mulligan because of drawing 4 cards in my opener where the average cmc was 9.
Sometimes i wished i played Lodestone Golem but that could be because of im so used to play them.
Gonna see if i can test it some more!
Sad thing is, i never got to bounce my Eldrazis
Last edited by Runninonwater; 04-23-2017 at 08:15 AM.
Well, fortunately you'll never have this happen again.
So the Miracles ban is pretty interesting for MUD. If you're of the opinion that MUD's a Miracles crusher, the ban probably feels bad. BGx might fill the power vacuum in the immediate short term, and we generally don't like to play vs those decks. Likewise, people might spend the next few weeks with their yolo hats on, jamming stuff like Belcher and Elves that can be hit or miss for Chalice decks.
On the other hand, maybe it's not so bleak!
- For a while I've been saying we're not amazing vs Miracles, as B2B, From the Ashes, and Mentor really improved their matchup against us.
- It's possible that ANT sees an uptick, and also cuts back on Abrupt Decay.
- As people worry about combo taking over, maybe Delver sees a resurgence. We don't exactly stomp Delver decks, but apart from BUG, we're usually even or slightly favored.
Thoughts?
My matchup with MUD vs miracles is 10-3 (rounds, not games), so the Miracles ban in the MUD vs. miracles aspect is kind of meh for the deck. The fact that Miracles is no longer around is potentially a HUGE upside for MUD though, since people will probably feel more free to play combo decks, which MUD preys on. Elves will be more popular, and storm might come back into the forefront of the metagame. If that's the case, I'm definitely considering getting back to MUD as my go-to deck. The meta needs to shift away from BUG a little bit more for my liking, but GP Vegas is 2 months away still, so there's time for change between now and then :)
What's everyone's favorite/best tech for MUD in the burn matchup? I'm considering trying 1 zuran orb (helps me dodge price of progress, and can keep me alive potentially)
Has anyone tried Zuran Orb or Sun Droplet? Sun Droplet is the other card I'm considering.
Last edited by Jakobian1010; 05-02-2017 at 10:01 PM.
My buddy plays burn regularly, so I've playtested alot against them. I've had best luck against burn by just playing the control deck. Chalice on 1 and 2, trinisphere, lodestone, sphere of resistance from the board, 4th wurmcoil in the board, and a 1 of batterskull in the board, platinum emperion main. . Just play it like we always do. Just don't board out spine or all your ugins, for their ensnaring bridge. Spine kills it, ugin just shoots over it.
I played this list last night, and have been testing it a bit. Here's the list:
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
1 Urborg
1 Thespian Stage
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Grim Monolith
4 Thran Dynamo
2 Voltaic Key
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 New Kozilek
1 Kozilek, the Butcherer
2 Oblivion Sower
1 Endbringer
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 All is Dust
2 Warping Wail
SB:
3 Pithing Needle
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Spatial Contortion
1 Warping Wail
1 Endbringer
1 All is dust
2 Wurmcoil
Went 4-0. The first "round" was with a friend while we were waiting.
vs UB Omnitell
g1: on the draw. t1 thought seize takes out my chalice. I t1 monolith off a tomb into key into tks and see a hand full of 1 drops and a limdul's vault. He untaps and plays a land, passes and I untap monolith and play a dynamo off another sol land. He eot vaults and untaps, plays a SnT, I drop an eye of Ugin and him an Omni. I search for Oblivion Sower and exile his top 4, a cunning wish / emmy and a couple of other stuff. He cantrips a couple turns while i search up for a nulamog and eventually exile his Omni.
g2: I lose to an Emmy off show and tell but it was actually kind of close. I think I misplayed b/c I almost had mana up to newlamog his emmy.
g3: He thought seizes my chalice but I ramp into tks and a t3 newlamog that exiles his two lands. He drops an ancient tomb with an island up and a petal, he shows in an omniscience but I dropped a trinisphere. I swing in and have mana up next turn to search and cast whatever.
I sided in big emmy, an extra warping wail, and an endbringer.
Rounds 2 and 3 were against imperial taxes. I won both game ones, on the play, with a t1 sol land into monolith into key and either chalice round 2 or tks round 3. The 2nd games I sided in warping wail x1, spatial contortion x 2, all is dust x 1, wurmcoil x 1, pithing needle x 3, siding out 4 chalice, 3 sphere, and 1 new kozilek. The boarded games were pretty ugly.
Round 4 was against infect.
He won the die and played t1 g elf. I played a tapped cloud post. He played a noble and another elf, attacked for 2. I untapped, played a glimmerpost, then played a trinisphere which he dazes. On his turn he pendelhavened the elf and attacks with the noble trigger. My turn I play a cloudpost. He plays another noble then attacks, with both triggers on the stack he pendelhavens his guy (not sure why he did it this way) but I warping wail it. I untap and all is dust. I eventually wipe up after landing a chalice on 1 and he shows me a handful of 1 drops.
I side in spatial contortion x2 warping wail x 1 pithing needle x 2. I take out Kozilek x 2, Ugin x 2, and Sower x 1.
He starts off with a tapped breeding pool. I play a cloudpost. He fetches a pool and plays a blighted agent. I play a glimmerpost and spatial contort on my turn. He plays an inkmoth and a noble. I play a sol land and cast chalice on 1, then trinisphere. He untaps and corrupters my chalice. I contort his corrupter. I untap into a tks taking his become immense. He starts beating in with inkmoth for a few turns but can't pump b/c of trinisphere and activating. I copy his inkmoth with my 1 of thespian stage and chump block, then eventually search up something big with eye of ugin and end it a few turns later.
This deck feels awesome. Its one of the funnest decks I have played in a long time. I originally thought to make U/g cloudpost, or a show and post UG build but I might just stick with this for awhile. Having the stompy package of chalice and trinisphere is a beating for a lot of decks.
Nice run, Nimkee! However, the Big Eldrazi thread might be a more productive place for that report.
Ah ok. I saw Runninonwater post a very similar list above with a report so I figured it was the right place. Thanks^^
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Cheers Nimkee. Obviously I'm not a mod and it's not up to me what gets posted in this thread. In my opinion, Metalworker MUD plays differently enough from Big Eldrazi, Legends MUD, and Colorless 12-Post that it makes sense to keep them separate. That said, it's possible that we should all be sharing ideas and trying to find a balance between strategies (e.g. the Big Eldrazi decks inspired me to reincorporate Dynamo into my Metalworker list).
I do have a couple of questions you might be able to help with. I saw some people running 4 of each and 2 basalts on top of that. Have you run the basalts or found them helpful at all? Do they work pretty well with straight MUD? I dropped them and it seemed smoother with just the main 8.
Also, 3 voltaic keys. I often drew one after chalice on 1. I moved to a 2 key build and ran into that much less but also missed some of the explosive starts. I sort of want to board 1 for non combo matchups. Any experience with or thoughts on this you could share would be great.
Ill try to keep questions more MUD relevant / related.
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Dusting off my MUD deck for a LGS tournament of unknown meta.
Here's what I'm bringing:
4 Metalworker
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Sundering Titan
1 Steel Hellkite
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Lightning Greaves
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Staff of Domination
1 Spine of Ish Sah
4 Grim Monolith
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
4 Wasteland
3 Cavern of Souls
2 Inventors' Fair
SB:
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Duplicant
1 Bottled Cloister
2 Spellskite
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Warping Wail
I'm rolling with an Elves player so I know that will be there. Other than that I'm not sure what to expect so I'm trying to cover my bases with my sideboard.
Any suggestions are appreciated. If it's interesting enough I may write up a report after.
Last edited by bobomb; 05-12-2017 at 09:25 AM.
hi everyone, it's been awhile since my last post ask for some guide for this deck.
First, thank again i improve my game with your help and got better results.
i made some changes to my list
4 Metalworker
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Sundering Titan
3 Walking Ballista
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Staff of Domination
4 Grim Monolith
2 Thran Dyanmo
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
3 Wasteland
4 Vesuva
i managed the game against d&t in a better way and understand the match up in new layers of thinking.
-No need to rush in
-Chalice is still good
-Keep a stable manabase hand
-be conscious of the board state
-Ballista is the law
with this in mind i improved my record from 0-5 to a 4-1-1 against d&t
in tournament my record it got much stable i'm no longer a 4-0 o 0-4 player
thank to all
Found following list in the combo section of Mtg Top8 listed under Cloudpost Ramp.
Overall more Control / Combo orientated with mainboard Ensnaring Bridge, Planeswalkers and no aggro creature settup, but still using Kuldotha Forgemaster and Metalworker...
Scrap Trawler seems interesting in combination with Kuldotha Forgemaster, Walking Ballista and maybe Ratchet Bomb?
What do you think, is Scrap Trawler worth tinkering?
From MtgTop8:
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=15261&d=292715&f=LE
24 LANDS
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
2 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
1 Crystal Vein
4 Glimmerpost
1 Inventors' Fair
2 Vesuva
2 Wasteland
15 CREATURES
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
4 Metalworker
1 Platinum Emperion
2 Scrap Trawler
4 Walking Ballista
21 OTHER SPELLS
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Crucible of Worlds
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Grim Monolith
1 Karn Liberated
1 Lightning Greaves
2 Staff of Domination
2 Trinisphere
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
SIDEBOARD
1 Blightsteel Colossus
2 Bottled Cloister
1 Orbs of Warding
1 Platinum Angel
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Sundering Titan
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Torpor Orb
1 Trinisphere
Thanks for posting that list, P210 - that deck is insane and I kinda love it. Maindeck Crucible is sweet and makes Crystal Vein more playable, and while I'm not a fan of maindeck Bridge in more traditional builds, it seems really strong here. Trawler seems great, and I like that he's on 2 Staff of Domination (I wonder if that significantly increased his number of infinite combo wins? I've been on 1 Staff forever, but maybe adding a 2nd isn't the worst idea).
My only real criticism is no Lodestone: I understand that it's not an aggro build, but it's still hard for me to see how a 5/3 lock piece is ever bad in MUD.
*Edit: the other weird thing is 4 Forgemaster. He's moved most of the traditional tutor bombs (e.g. Sundering Titan) to the board, while Ballista and Planeswalkers can't be tutored. Is the Forgemaster role here getting lock pieces, Staff, and Trawler value?
You're welcome.
And yeah, I'm wondering about similar stuff. I just checked the original page http://manadeprived.com/showdown-rec...ch-9th-legacy/ where the deck is listed as Stax.
And I'd really like to see Smokestack in here, which would be also nice with Bridge / Crucible. But I think that would be a bad combination with Forgemaster. Also no Lodestone seems weird to me.
Seems the deck wants to power out a fast Ugin or Karn and hide behind Bridge when needed or go infinite with Staff and draw into lethal Ballista. I think thats where Forgemaster is the tutor for the last missing piece...
I was testing some more controlish MUD versions lately, and I think im going to test Scrap Trawler there. Mainly tinkering with Coercive Portal, Walking Ballista, Crucible of Worlds and Mox Diamond to replace the Forgemaster toolbox but keep enough consistency. Also tested Smokestack as lategame backup option for stalled boardstates. But no idea if that should go in the Stax threat, nonetheless I played it with full playset of Lodestone Golem and Wurmcoil Engine....
I don't think scrap trawler is worth tinkering up. I think it's more of a with trawler on the board, forgemaster sac'ing can give you 2 artifacts back to hand, to feed metalworker, hence the more focus on staff combo. Sac grim monolith's and get back chalice and ballista's. Block with trawler, get ballista back. I think it mainly revolves around anything dying with trawler out gets ballista back to shoot more damage over bridge, or countered/blown up chalices.
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=15676&d=295833&f=LE
Seems someone else tried this: Similar concept, at least Metalwork Colossus, Batterskull and Sanctum of Ugin are in...
I retooled my MUD deck into a Construct-tribal control deck...
It faired well against Grixis delver in brief testing. Not sure what to cut to get it back to 60 though.
creatures: 15
4 Metalworker
4 Walking Ballista
3 Forgemaster
3 Scrap Trawler
1 Platinum Emperion
spells: 22
4 Grim Monolith
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Tangle Wire
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Mind Stone
1 Staff of Domination
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Lightning Greaves
lands: 24
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 City of Traitors
3 Cavern of Souls
2 Inventors' Fair
sideboard:
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Trinisphere
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Sundering Titan
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Tormod's Crypt
Last edited by bobomb; 06-07-2017 at 01:29 PM.
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