thanks for the reply! i should clarify because i am familar with those lists, but, is there a list viable for rpimetime and warping wail WITHOUT tops. .....Originally Posted by Scott
I'd think traditional mono-G could probably handle it. With any Post land base, C is already one of a deck's "colors" by default, so 1C isn't unreasonable.
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with a living wish deck what are the "meta slots" you mentioned? what would you define as nearly untouchable?
Warping wail is fine in any deck with more than the 8 posts as colorless sources. I also run a cavern, a stage, a waste, and 2 vesuva.
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Depths? why or why not?
Depending on my build, I run Depths. I always run the Thespians regardless though because it has so much utility / synergy. It can be either post, an extra green source, it can copy an Eye as your Eye is getting wasted, and copy a Chasm during upkeep and then untap with Candle etc. It also is a great weapon against opposing depths or lands decks.
When people are worried about big Eldrazi and prime times sometimes they forget and you can just turn 5 them or put the ball in their court. Not every deck has an answer to a 20/20 (though a surprising amount do). More than being an active strategy I will sometimes play depths to bait out wastelands or give people pause.
Depths, to me, is an alternate win-con. It gives flexibility and sometimes can just get you the win. If they are depending on a Karakas you can needle the karakas and just kill them. Sometimes its an eot thing with Crop rotation and you win out of nowhere. I don't like it as much in greedier mana-bases so I only run it in the mono-green build. I would probably run it main if I were splashing a single color with green (GW for example) for a couple cards in the sideboard. I hate getting wasted out though, so color me cautious.
If you haven't seen it yet, we have an unconfirmed leak from Ixalan that gives us a powerful new toy…
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We already run pithing needle. I don't know how much more useful this is other than getting around a chalice on 1. paying the extra mana to probe doesn't sound super powerful for a 12 post deck. only advantage I would say is to see if they are holding counterspells. Feels better in an elves deck.If you haven't seen it yet, we have an unconfirmed leak from Ixalan that gives us a powerful new toy…
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It's still probably worth testing. It might allow for greedier lines of play.
Yes, you probably need Candelabra if you're running a Cloudpost deck.
Playing around Chalice might be worth it. Being able to name Wasteland vs Eldrazi should improve that matchup significantly.
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Hello,
I’ve lurked for a while, guess it’s time to finally post. I went the Legacy Loot tournament in Lincoln RI. Here’s the list I used:
4x Cloudpost
4x Glimmerpost
4x Vesuva
7x Forest
2x Cavern of Souls
1x Eye of Ugin
1x Glacial Chasm
1x Karakas
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Thespian’s Stage
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Maze of Ith
1x The Tabernacle at Pendral Vale
4x Primeval Titan
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1x Emrakul, New
1x Emrakul, Old
4x Ancient Stirrings
4x Crop Rotation
3x Expedition Map
3x Pithing Needle
4x Warping Wail
2x Trinishere
2x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1x Sylvan Library
1x Candelabra of Twanos
Sideboard:
1x Zuron Orb
4x Sphere of Resistance
2x Moment’s Peace
4x Fairy Macabre
1x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Krosan Grip
1x Carpet of Flowers
Round 1: G/B Pox
Game one I keep an opener without a forest, never really do much. Game was long and drawn out. I lose to bloodghast beats. Game 2, early pithing needle on wasteland into a turn 4 titan. Titan gets killed but the damage is done. Game draws out for a while but Ugin wins me the game. Game three, he leads with a turn one bojuka bog (later in the game I vesuva the bog multiple times to kill loam engines). I win fairly easy after landing a titan followed by an eldrazi.
Round 2: Dredge, with mana
Game one, crop rotate into bojuka bog is really good. He scoops after I land a titan. Game 2, I slow him down with a fairy macabre. He finally builds a board. I play tabernacle, killing all his guys. I land a trinisphere. He concedes but wants to play it out. Promised end comes out the next turn, he laughs and picks his cards up.
Round 3: Grixis Delver/Pyro
Game one, I keep an opener without a forest. It’s a slow death by pyromancer. Tabernacle held him off a while but I loose. Game 2, turn 4 uncounterable titan, he can’t beat it. Game 3, I land an ensnaring bridge. It successfully stalls until I titan into eldrazi. After the match, he says he runs 4 wastelands but saw zero all match. Good luck for me I guess.
Rounds 4 and 5: Intentional draw into top 8
Top 8: Jund NicFit feat. Sneak Attack
Game one, I keep an opener without a forest. I lose (notice the trend?) Game 2, pithing needle on sneak attack and ensnaring bridge slow him down. I eventually have infinite turns and wipe his entire board with Ceaseless Hunger. Game 3, my opener is ancient tomb, 2 expedition map, cloudpost, vesuva, forest, primeval titan. I snap keep. Turn one he blind therapy’s both my maps followed by my titan. I fail to recover and lose.
Notes: Need more forests. Ensnaring bridge was clutch. I miss thought Knot seer. Just an FYI on the zuron orb; I play against way to many burn/price decks to not run one in the board.
New List:
4x Cloudpost
4x Glimmerpost
4x Vesuva
8x Forest
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Eye of Ugin
1x Glacial Chasm
1x Karakas
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Thespian’s Stage
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Maze of Ith
4x Primeval Titan
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1x Emrakul, New
1x Emrakul, Old
2x Thought Knot Seer
4x Ancient Stirrings
4x Crop Rotation
3x Expedition Map
3x Pithing Needle
3x Warping Wail
2x Trinishere
2x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1x Sylvan Library
1x Candelabra of Twanos
Sideboard:
1x Zuron Orb
4x Sphere of Resistance
2x Moment’s Peace
3x Fairy Macabre
2x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Krosan Grip
1x The Tabernacle at Pendral Vale
thanks for the write up! list looks good.
Only card I consider "required" is crop rotation. Everything else is a meta call.
With such a large presence of Delver decks would it make sense to construct a build that plays more like modern tron? Utilizing things like Pyroclasm, Kozilek's Return, and Lightning Bolt to get to the late game?
I'd say no because unlike modern, we have to deal with combo decks. We need tools like trinisphere and alike that help us deal with both aggro and combo. That's the reason why I main board trinisphere and not ensnaring bridge.
I see what you're saying but I like my combo hate in the SB as I play U/G and heavily dislike Cg. Regardless of colour choices, we will always be weaker to combo in game 1 since we run so many colourless lands and can't make room for FoW without losing a lot of business spells that are essential to our game plan. We will always be soft to combo as we can't cast Chalice on turn 1 or Trinisphere turn 1.
With U/G you probably can't. But it's possible to play Chalice - you can play Ancient Tomb for example in a colorless build, or in a colored build you can play Mox Diamond. I could play Chalice in my build and i have tested a little bit with it - i just don't like Chalice very much in the metagame i am facing on xmage (many fair non-blue decks, and Chalice is awful against that), but if i was playing in a GP or a similar event i would probably play it.
If you're playing GSZ you can also play maindeck Gaddock Teeg and that helps against a decent number of combo decks, especially Storm. And again, Mox Diamond helps to play those cards fast enough.
U/G has not that many options - i don't think U/G is very good (and that was my opinion even before the Top ban, in all my testing my results with U/G were always horrible). You just get some counterspells like Flusterstorm against combo decks, but you need a lot of them to actually beat the combo decks, and then you don't have enough room against aggro decks any more - and you don't even have any really good cards against aggro decks, no good spot removal and no good sweepers. All the other colors have good options against aggro decks, just take your pick. I prefer W and B for a good mix and because W has the best permanent combo hate.
I can understand when people don't want to try my builds, they look like EDH decks after all, but they didn't start that way. The one thing i'm very sure about with my builds is that Mox Diamonds help a lot against combo decks and aggro decks, because they speed up my mana development in the earlygame. The major drawback is the lategame against more grindy decks, but those are still good matchups and overall i'm convinced it pays off. Everything else are eventually just adjustments to make this shell with Mox Diamonds work better and take more advantage of them, but you could go in a completely different direction with that and end up with a deck looking much more like the traditional decks.
How do you beat aggro loam? Basically the deck runs 4 chalice of the void, 4 abrupt decay and 4 knight of the religuary. My pithing needle gets abrupted, followed by a quick knight that repeatedly wastes me until it starts attacking...
Post board; surgical extraction, krosan grip, thought-knot seer, more needles are some of the pieces I board in against them. It's an odd match up. If you are going U/G, show and tell is pretty strong against them. Repeal is also good against Knight puts a reset on them. Biggest is surgical against wasteland so you can focus your needles on the Knight.
If your meta is heavy aggro loam, just run Dismember and play Standard against them with you having no Cloudposts and them having no Knights. You win that war.
Dismember - Warping wail - Moment's peace - Relic of Progenitus all share meta slots.
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