Drawing Crusader early can be a problem. If they deal with him, I have no other way to find an Avenger than to lucksack into one. If I draw Avenger early, I'm fine because my other beater is tutorable.Originally Posted by WashableWater1
Applying a meaningful amount of pressure in a certain window of time is often the way to win, and not doing a substantial amount of damage in that window can definitely lead to a loss, so I would love another playable beater with flying that can be tutored for via RotG. I don't care if they can bolt it.
Edit: sorry for the double-post. I spaced the earlier post, it's a busy, stressful day.
Flickerwisp and Stoneforge both fill that role
I get that they have ways of functioning that can be construed as beats, but flickerwisp is super fragile and stoneforge is really slow. Also, I'm already playing 4 of each, so unless one of them has a functional reprint, it's no help to say that.
I want a 3/2 flyer that is better than stonecloaker. There.
Edit: I'd take a 4/1 flyer even, and I'd take something that costs 4, but only ww in the cost, no triple color requirement though.
I've heard Delver of Secrets is pretty good.
Seriously though, if you're looking for tutorable beats (i.e. you have Recruiter in play or in hand), why NOT get Flickerwisp? Yes 1 toughness is not ideal, but Recruiter means multiple additional Flickerwisps. Tempo may be an issue but they've got to run out of removal at some point if you keep chaining 'wisps off Recruiter.
On the other hand, your hypothetical 3/2 still dies to P.Fire, Push, Bolt, Decay, Swords, Path, Lavamancer, Massacre, and Delver and can't be easily augmented with additional copies via Recruiter.
Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. True contributors also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.
why dont you play just more copies of avenger, so that you dont have to recruiter for them? I play a build with 4 avenger, 4 flicker, 4 stoneforge, 1 crusader, 4 revoker, 2 spirit of the labyrinth main and 3 canonist side. But no recruiters. In that build, if i would draw a recruiter, i often wouldnt know what to tutor for exept for flicker loop. But i play enough flyers and beaters anyways. The only downside of that build is that you dont have the additional card advantage of recruiter. But i miss it only in very few games. Often i dont need the card advatage, because my beaters are better than true names or anglers etc... Because i draw so many of them. Its ok for me, if my opponent draws more cards than me, but he cant beat my avengers/flickers/crusader/equ. anyways.
I've been thinking about creatures that can replace Crusader and Serra Avenger. One creature I have my mind on is this: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Ca...verseid=369098
Basically he has pseudo hexproof for black, red, and green; it gets hit by Swords to Plowshares so it's bad in the mirror but quite good against other midrange decks. Being indestructible is nice for Jitte combat and makes him a great defender against Goyfs and Angler. Four mana can be an issue if you don't play sol lands. Dies to most -/- boardwipes but can actually be good against things like pyroclasm. Wish he had vigilance though.
It doesn't die to TNN which is nice but the only real way to deal with that card isn't running a bunch of flyers but to run things like Orzhov Pontiff and Magus to shut off double blue mana.
Overall, I'm not optimistic but I'm willing to test it out in a few key match-ups. Let the ridicule commence.
Don't do it, bro. Let's just keep waiting. I've looked a lot specifically (since the printing of Recruiter) for the best tutor target with flying. So far it's Flickerwisp, and I do chain them when I can, but now that Terminus isn't the most played board wipe any more, it's not nearly as strong as it once was.
I guess maybe I'm looking for a replacement for Spirit of the Labyrinth. I just want two tutorable beaters that are good in different matchups. I'll drop the Spirit for Angel #3 when I get the chance to, to see if quantity is a reasonable substitute for being able to tutor for it as needed.
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He also gets hit by Karakas in the mirror. For a 4 drop to be playable in legacy, it pretty much has to be game ending. Something like Tajic is gonna be a pretty solid card when you get it on the board, but it doesn't come with the same card advantage that cards like Pia/Kiran and Palace Jailer do. I generally don't mind ticking a Vial to 4 to get those guys out because it's hard to lose after they get going. Whereas Tajic can be ignored or chump blocked when you can afford to make those alpha strikes - and you generally can't.
It would be cool if they printed some pushed RW legendary creatures, but I don't think this guy is one. He didn't see Standard play. He was pretty solid for me in a limited game once...
I've used it in Modern as a 1 of, flash fliers are very nice, also saving a dude randomly is pretty cool too.
Is this the droid you're looking for? (it's not, this card sucks).
Cockatrice: EMFry
It's fine, but requires another critter in play. That is a major problem in my opinion.
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I love Pia/Kiran but it requires too much dedication to the red splash; for similar reasons, I don't put cards like Sudden Demise in the sideboard. I liked Palace Jailer until I played with Dark Confidants, which just puts it to shame.
Another card I thought of was Restoration Angel. Dodges lightning bolt cards (e.g don't forget about forked bolt and Kolaghan's Command) and abrupt decay. Can often dodge a fatal push. Being 4 toughness makes it very resilient to all forms of common boardwipes. It's an angel but a single white requirement and Sol Lands mean it's often a turn 3 play. Not as versatile as Flickerwisp when it comes to flicking things but it's a far better blocker netting you card advantage against Delver and creature decks. It has the same level of potential in saving your creatures. Has the essential 3 power to race TNN if necessary. Still combos with recruiter and stoneforge mystic. Oh and flash... so it's consistently good even without aether vial.
You can't recruit it but you know, we can't have everything in life.
I feel very optimistic about testing Restoration Angel
Indeed, if I am going to play a beater that is Karakas-able, it'd probably be Brimaz, King Of Oreskos, but obviously that guy has other downsides too.
Like Resto, he has a lot of upsides versus Bolts (and P. Fires), but certainly not so great versus Decay.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
That attitude in legacy won't get you far. My feeling after playing for almost two decades is that you can, it just depends on how long you are willing to wait for it. The white recruiter is my case in point. That's why I said wait. I'm going to try a black and taxes build sometime, also.
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Well, we can have everything because Wizards prints a bizarrely large quantity of new cards for DnT. Like I'm sure they'll give us a Rest in Peace bear one day, which will be sweet. Someone at WotC is probably gonna read this - please give us one Rest in Peace + bear. That's all. Easy design. Maybe it should be legendary too. Let me know if you have any questions.
P.S. Don't make it 3 mana.
Monkey's Paw there, you failed to say "and definitely don't make it 4."
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
Do we just not talk about how this card is some dude blowing a gargoyle?
Is this the droid you're looking for? (it's not, this card sucks).
First rule of talking about Stonecloaker is "you don't talk about Stonecloaker's art."
Second rule of talking about Stonecloaker is "you don't talk about Stonecloaker's art."
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
Wow I just looked at the card a bit closer... what the hell?
No but what I'm saying is legitimate. If restoration angel had 2 toughness making it recruitable, it would be a significantly worse card. Even serra avenger might be arguably worse if it had one less toughness.
Hello everyone. I'm playing w/b version now with 2 Orzhov Pontiff (1 main 1 side) and 3 Perish in side. It's good answer with Elves (many in my meta), also it kills deathrite, leovold, tarmogoyf. Besides, i'm testing Judge's Familiar in main. For my point of view, it's very interesting creature and can upgrade many matches, especially fast combo.
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