[Deck] U/G Infect

[movingtonewao]

$50 a month means you'll take the good part of your first year to get your first trop and the 4 force of wills. Its a worthy endeavor though, I wish you all the best!

EDIT: alternatively if you can't wait to get into legacy, sell off your modern infect and grab 4 force of wills and 4 TNN with the money and you're good to go immediately with legacy merfolk.

[ashent]

Man there are a lot of really expensive pieces that he won't even get close to unless he was starting with Modern Merfolk.

My path to Legacy was actually Merfolk -> Infect -> BUG etc, but if you were trying to finish Infect then spending a bunch of money on Merfolk doesn't make much sense. The deck requires Caverns, Vials, Chalices, Wastelands, Mutavaults, etc etc etc

[Viola]

Thanks JackaBo, Svyelunite, movingtonewao and ashent for replies so far; I'm certainly considering all your comments.

When considering which deck to port into legacy, I was considering overall cost of transition to the minimum core cards (so stuff like flusterstorm is in most builds of each, but not 100% required for success, same with stuff like karakas and jitte):

Merfolk = 4x TNN ($100)+ 4x CotV ($300)+ 2x Cavern ($80) + 4x FoW ($260) = $740

Infect = 3x Trop ($600) + 3x FoW ($195) + 2x Berserk ($25) + 4x Invigorate ($5) = $825

Given that those prices aren't THAT different ... and a larger % of the infect cards carry over to other decks (at least value wise) and are less likely to be reprinted and to tank in value (looking at you CotV) ... and the fact that porting infect would enable me to keep playing that archetype since I still play merfolk in modern, which gives me more variety ... I decided on Infect as my legacy project.

[Roweboater]

Hi everyone,
I'm looking for a little bit of help. I have been finding the Delver matchups difficult, about 70% loss lately. In the local meta there are: 1 grixis, 1 UWR (stoneblade variant), and 1 UR. I'm not sure if I have been siding OUT correctly in games 2 and 3. Can you offer me any advice on what I should side out? Or any other general tips for the matchup?

Here is my list for reference: (note that in the side the hydroblast and dispel would be 2x flusterstorm)

Mainboard:

Land
4x Blighted Agent
4x Glistener Elf
4x Noble Hierarch

Enchantment
1x Sylvan Library

Sorcery
2x Gitaxian Probe
2x Ponder

Instant
1x Become Immense
2x Berserk
3x Vines of Vastwood
4x Invigorate
4x Brainstorm
1x Crop Rotation
2x Spell Pierce
3x Force of Will
4x Daze

Land
1x Flooded Strand
3x Misty Rainforest
4x Windswept Heath
4x Tropical Island
1x Forest
4x Inkmoth Nexus
1x Pendelhaven
1x Wasteland


Sideboard:

2x Chill
1x Dispel
1x Faerie Macabre
1x Force of Will
1x Hydroblast
1x Krosan Grip
1x Dissenter’s Deliverance
1x Nature’s Claim
1x Pithing Needle
2x Submerge
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Teferi’s Response

[TheoryCraft]

Hey all, I've been noticing that Vines of Vastwood hasn't performed as well in Legacy as it used to. Mana feels tight - too tight to tap down GG mana and keep up mana for other effects, spells, etc. Is it time to just start using Blossoming Defense in its place? I feel like the G mana for hexproof and +2/+2 pump is more consistent than the variance Vines provides. Thoughts?

[Absolutflipz]

Hey all, I've been noticing that Vines of Vastwood hasn't performed as well in Legacy as it used to. Mana feels tight - too tight to tap down GG mana and keep up mana for other effects, spells, etc. Is it time to just start using Blossoming Defense in its place? I feel like the G mana for hexproof and +2/+2 pump is more consistent than the variance Vines provides. Thoughts?

I 5-0'ed a league this past week copying Andrew Cuneo's latest posted list, but I feel like Infect is pretty rough right now with the present meta (esp.online where you see tons of Grixis Delver, 4c Leovold, Lands, Loam).

In the league I beat UW control, UWx Stoneblade, Grixis Delver, BR Reanimator, and Elves.

As far as beating Delver decks/decks with lots of cheap removal and interaction, my personal opinion is that you really have to pay attention on how you wanna sequence your turns (and future turns), play around removal where you can and overall be a little more aggressive than usual (probe obv helps with velocity and aggression too with the known info, but sometimes you gotta pick your spot when you're down to only losing to say 1 card i.e. fow or a their 2nd/3rd copy of bolt). It is obviously not an easy MU.

I liked Cuneo's list cuz it didnt have random fluff like Teferi's Response, Wasteland, Crop Rotation packages, etc.

I also like the full set of Probe because you're not out-grinding all these interactive decks, and moving to 4 probes adds a lot more consistency and explosiveness on average to your draws. Efficiency is the name of the game with infect....which also speaks to your comment on Vines. I played a Vines in the board as another pump and protection spell in certain matchups, but I played 2x Blossoming in the main.

The deck is a ton of fun to play by virtue of its difficulty to pilot well (and I made plenty of mistakes, including subtle ones which can be huge), but it is probably not the best option in the current metagame.

[poxy14]

Hi everyone, I'm looking for a little bit of help. I have been finding the Delver matchups difficult, about 70% loss lately. In the local meta there are: 1 grixis, 1 UWR (stoneblade variant), and 1 UR. I'm not sure if I have been siding OUT correctly in games 2 and 3. Can you offer me any advice on what I should side out? Or any other general tips for the matchup

I think the Delver matchup is where the UGw built shines, wherein you pack removals vs roadblocks and fast clock. Force them to a decision whether to hold fort by losing clock or to counter and fall into a trap. My list is basically built vs tons of removals and decks that carries them are back in the block.

Been very successful with this odd list:
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=23914&iddeck=186923

gameplan vs delver decks:
1. the usual switching of dazes OTP and OTD.
2. insert FLUSTERS (2sb, 1main all in 3.. so there's a possibility to chain the combo).
3. I usually remove number of FOWS, it's card disadvantage vs deck that cantrips too! just rely on basic protection/hard permissions in flusters/pierces/dazes.
4. DRS part is tricky, when they have it I remove BIMMENSE or sometimes cut it to 1 since I pack STPS.
5. STPs for delvers/lavamen.... there are several times I tricked an attacking delver when he sees no infect clock via the 2nd copy of Croprotation.... or a surprise STP eot a flying blocker. Good players will know the value of their inkmoths vs our deck.. If they serve as additional crit kill vs our inkmoths, we can still clear way via STPs (I carry 3x)
6. I also have the 2ndcopy of BDefense in the SB, very handy vs aggro... You can always bluff for an attck vs DRS/delvers, then suddenly youre bit way bigger... can clear way for Glisteners early on...midgame we rely heavily on Blighteds/Inkmoths.
7. AVOID GOING ALL IN! well, unless you have a probe in hand and sees the coast is clear.... expect GRIND. 2 infect a turn is good (when exalted/pendel'ed), even when you carry pumps, after combat they usually fire up on our infectors... that's when we protect. Soon they'll ran out of bullets! I have tons of permissions too! Just protect the 8MVPS of this matchup... 4inkys and 4blighteds. That's just it!

Our deck needs that 1 small room vs tight battles such as THIS, to execute the W. The change of pace/roles is key vs certain matchups.... here we need to be very cautious. 1 big mistake can easily be a blowout... Let them be the victim, If we play conservatively.

@Absolutflipz: grats on an amazing finish! I like your list too! just wasnt a fan of GSZ.. the 4 probe/2ponder will fuel your bimmense too fast.

[Neffy]

Land
1x Flooded Strand
3x Misty Rainforest
4x Windswept Heath
4x Tropical Island
1x Forest
4x Inkmoth Nexus
1x Pendelhaven
1x Wasteland

Only a minor comment, but can be hugely relevant. Flooded strand does not fetch you forest and should be another green fetch instead.

Also due to the red delver decks I am also considering going back to absolute law along with a few STPS. It is a bit slow but also helps a lot vs P.Fire decks like loam and lands and Jund.

[Roweboater]

Thanks for the replies! Very helpful:)

@poxy14: I have all the card and for the W splash so I may give that a try soon. Unnoticed your list only runs 3 heirarch... is that extra pump/protect worth dropping to 3? Especially with a white splash relying on one white land.

@neffy: thanks:) I'll have to fix that that then :)

[Kobal]

I 5-0'ed a league this past week copying Andrew Cuneo's latest posted list

Could you elabortate what the reason for Green Sun's Zenith in the maindeck is in this list? Preboard all it can get is noble Hierarch and Glistener Elf, while the two creatures you want most if the game goes longer are Blighted Agent and Inkmoth Nexus. Is this purely a pre-sideboarded card?

[Absolutflipz]

Could you elabortate what the reason for Green Sun's Zenith in the maindeck is in this list? Preboard all it can get is noble Hierarch and Glistener Elf, while the two creatures you want most if the game goes longer are Blighted Agent and Inkmoth Nexus. Is this purely a pre-sideboarded card?

It only needs to be able to get a Hierarch or Glistener as Game 1 utility. It's just an extra copy of those guys game 1 as the deck is threat-light...of course Agent and Inkmoth are largely the better threats.

It also gets around Chalice, represents a pump spell (Hierarch), and of course the added utility postboard with Corrupters.

The 1-of GSZ is not the end all, be all of the 5-0 success, but I felt the redundancy to the main and flexibility to the board was worth the 1 slot. You can also look at it from the perspective that I was happy with the number of counterspells already in the deck, pump spells, and library manipulation in the maindeck so the slot was there for GSZ which fills a lot of roles at low opp. cost to the 60.

[poxy14]

Thanks for the replies! Very helpful:)
@poxy14: I have all the card and for the W splash so I may give that a try soon. Unnoticed your list only runs 3 heirarch... is that extra pump/protect worth dropping to 3? Especially with a white splash relying on one white land.

Im comfortable playing 3, I've always felt NH midgame is a bad topdeck, (somehow same when im playing STIFLE in rugdelver). It was always the easiest cut too when playing against combo decks, so instead of 4 main, I inserted in other efficient spells...flex spot might any of these choices I made.

a. 4th fow (vs combos, early cotvs)
b. sylvan library (it's been huge lately! can easily make the game favorable to us)
c. 2nd crop rotation (I treat this too as my 14th infector, seldom it happens I dont have an infector to present... and the EOT croprot to inky is my all time favorite move!)
d. vs good players, once they figure out theyre up against INFECT, they tend to just target our infectors! they wont try to get rid to any of our NH... so carrying just 3 and having 1 more impt spell as replacement I think is EEFICIENCY.

I only play 3 white spells in the SB, so It doesnt worry me getting W... with 8 fetches too, 2 croprots... and them 3 hierarchs, I can always fireoff white.

[Roweboater]

Im comfortable playing 3, I've always felt NH midgame is a bad topdeck, (somehow same when im playing STIFLE in rugdelver). It was always the easiest cut too when playing against combo decks, so instead of 4 main, I inserted in other efficient spells...flex spot might any of these choices I made.

a. 4th fow (vs combos, early cotvs)
b. sylvan library (it's been huge lately! can easily make the game favorable to us)
c. 2nd crop rotation (I treat this too as my 14th infector, seldom it happens I dont have an infector to present... and the EOT croprot to inky is my all time favorite move!)
d. vs good players, once they figure out theyre up against INFECT, they tend to just target our infectors! they wont try to get rid to any of our NH... so carrying just 3 and having 1 more impt spell as replacement I think is EEFICIENCY.

I only play 3 white spells in the SB, so It doesnt worry me getting W... with 8 fetches too, 2 croprots... and them 3 hierarchs, I can always fireoff white.

Thanks! You've been very helpful:) I'll see how my Delver matchups go now!:)

[poxy14]

Another successful run with my Bant Infect last night. Posting a 3-1 record with a streak of winning 7 straight games. It's a 3v3 format, The only game Ive lost was the last one vs a favorable matchup with MUD, wherein any counter drawn via brainstorm, whether a daze or a fow...would make it a perfect night for me. Glad my teammates won the round for us. Made the top4 and decided to split all the prizes between the 12 of us as it was becoming already late and we have work tomorrow.

Decklist:
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=16206&f=LE

Matchups:
2-0 vs Lands (2nd turn and 3rd turn kill)
2-0 vs Burn (2x 3rd turn kill via both blighteds)
2-0 DnT (2nd turn and 3rd turn kill)
1-2 MUD (Won game 1 via 2nd turn kill... I have the combos early, unfortunately, gambling on a manalight hand without fows on both 2nd turn trinisphere from my opponent left the taste of defeat on that awesome run for me. It was a WIN still as 2 of my opponents managed to seal their games for the team. This deck is a beast when played properly. It was another solid run for The Strain.

[Hrothgar]

Poxy, very good result, congrats!
If we want to talk about MUD (or similar archetype)..imho is not a simply matchup.
Too many threats like Chalice and Trinisphere give us some trouble.
Warping Wall is annoying...and Spatial Contorsion is the same.
He can play with 8 creature removal + 3/4 Walking Balista + 3 All is Dust...
Ok, maybe All is Dust is a slow card...but Warping + Spatial + Balista are turn 1 cards for a deck with 7-8 Sol lands.
If we play is too easy for us, because we can maximize Daze effect for 2 game, if we draw imho is not easy.
Thoughts about?

[poxy14]

Poxy, very good result, congrats!
If we want to talk about MUD (or similar archetype)..imho is not a simply matchup.
Too many threats like Chalice and Trinisphere give us some trouble.

Based on my personal listings, since 2014, im 16-7-1 vs MUD (none eldrazi) all time... and early on we havent had Bimmense yet. Studying the matchup shows TRINISPHERE will hurt us more over a cotv1. We have inkmoths, blighteds, invigorates and if youre running 2 Bimmenses, it really is great vs this matchup. MUD relies heavily on content consistency...and if they dont draw relevant taxes vs us.. Itll be an easy W. The key also is what is a good keep vs this deck..Once you figure out how to counter the right spells at the right moment, itll be fast.

[qomori]

Heads up that this week's Leaving a Legacy features Infect and our very own Svyelunite: http://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/20...ect-zach-koch/

[Adibou1er]

Based on my personal listings, since 2014, im 16-7-1 vs MUD (none eldrazi) all time... and early on we havent had Bimmense yet. Studying the matchup shows TRINISPHERE will hurt us more over a cotv1. We have inkmoths, blighteds, invigorates and if youre running 2 Bimmenses, it really is great vs this matchup. MUD relies heavily on content consistency...and if they dont draw relevant taxes vs us.. Itll be an easy W. The key also is what is a good keep vs this deck..Once you figure out how to counter the right spells at the right moment, itll be fast.

100% agree with this.
I would not say that MUD is an easy MU but during my tests vs the deck and also during tournaments, I have a very good winrate.
Of course, sometimes you just can't play (OTD with chalice @1 then trinisphere...) but most of the time you can dodge its hate.

Most of the time, depending on the opening hand, I'd rather counter the trini than the chalice.

If you fear it, or you plan to face it a lot in your local meta, you just bring the 4th FOW main along with a Corrupter and a GsZ.

[poxy14]

If you fear it, or you plan to face it a lot in your local meta, you just bring the 4th FOW main along with a Corrupter and a GsZ.

My meta hated the delvers and combo decks, their answer? DnT and MUD decks! They feast on these DTBs... and that also might be the key for my deck's recent success lately. When battling any tax deck that has minimal interaction when we detonate. We're so damn favorable! Counter 1 spell and kaboom! That's why I have with me the 4th fow already, double bimmense with 2 croprots will help fuel it, same way it dodges cotv1 (BI).

If it shows more, the GSZ package is very good here and I might make room for the 2nd and 3rd (savage haha!) VC (viridian corrupter).

[Svyelunite]

Won the SCG Atlanta Legacy Classic with this list. Report will be posted later when I get time.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...?DeckID=115115