I find Prelates to be my favorites vs Lands (on 2), Miracles (On 1), Show and Tell (on 3), and Burn (on 2)Originally Posted by menloe
None of those matchups would I want Canonist instead.
guys, what about punishing maverik?
Is it fallen out of flavour but shouldn't it be quite strong right now?
where can I check an updated list if anyone is still testing it out?
Hey NegatorITA
i have played pfire maverick the last 2 months and it was indeed very strong
check out my latest list:
PFire
list was ok back then, i dunno what i would change here, because i switched back to GWb with Crucible Snake..
interesting that you switched back with Crucible snake, which is indeed, a card I'd like to hear about, looks very powerful.
Why the change? I mean, what make you think going crucible-snake will be better than punishing fire?
The opponent doesnt have to do anything, The likely hood of you getting those 5-6 cards in opening is extreamly unliky and it does nothing to stop combo decks. Im all for looking at the best case scenario but within reason. You wouldnt run 4 exploration, and without that consistency its unlikely you'll see it much. playing lands from grave is great but without extra land drops is not AMAZING.
Also, you may untap with that much mana, but then have nothing to cast with it....
Play 4 Card Blind!
Currently Playing
Legacy: Dark Depths
EDH: 5-Color Hermit Druid
Currently Brewing: [Deck] Sadistic Sacrament / Chalice NO Eldrazi
why cards are so expensive...hoarders
IMO punishing maverick is just a worse version of loam decks. It's like halfway there but connot execute either deck's strategy that well. Im not saying its bad but Id rather devote to a strategy than play something like this.
You can say the same exact thing about maverick in general.
I get what you're saying but there are no other KoTr decks beside maverick and loam so I disagree.
Hi Everybody.
I tested a lot after sensei's ban. And I find out the following list:
4x Mother of Runes
4x Deathrite Shaman
1x Noble Hierarch
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Scryb Ranger
1x Qasali Pridemage
3x Knight of the Reliqary
1x Chameleon Colossus
1x Thargtusk
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Renegade Rallier
Non-land, Non-creature:
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Green Sun’s Zenith
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Umezawa’s Jitte
1x Sylvan Library
1x Collective Brutality
Lands:
4x Wasteland
4x Windswepth Heath
3x Verdant Catacombs
2x Bayou
3x Savannah
1x Scrubland
1x Forest
1x Plains
1x Karakas
1x Gaea’s Cradle
1x Cavern Of Souls
Sideboard:
1x Pithing Needle
2x Choke
3x Thoughtseize
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Zealous Persecution
1x Toxic Deludge
1x Garruk Relentless
1x Blessed Alliance
I will talk about choices beyond the normal shell:
Thargtusk: he is one of our 3 BIG finisher. I thought his mana cost could be a problem, but with 22 lands, 1 Dryad and 5 mana dork We can cast it easily. is a Great card vs BUG, Jund (all the midrange deck), burn and control deck (like topless miracle). We can side it out vs grixis and all the other tempo deck, and obv Combo and lands.
Chameleon Colossus: Simply AMAZING. In the current meta is the right choice, for long time I was looking for a good Cc4 silver bullet that can be fethced with GSZ and I finally found it,specially in this meta full of Fatal Push, Decay, Gurmag Angler, Shaman, Strix and Leovold. He is protected from random pulse/Dismember too, against BUG is really strong and vs grixis as well (we have cavern to make it uncounterable and post sideboard, he is even more powerful, because our opponent Non-black threats are blowed up from our zealous/deludge). With Cradle it becomes enormous, try it and you will never go back!
Collective Brutality, I was looking for a 7th spot removal, and I realized that brutality is really great in this deck. It kills Delver, Shaman, any burn, elves D&T creatures (and it gives you 2 life), Confidant, strix, Pyromancer and many other annoying stuff. We can easily activate escalation by discarding any Thalia in excess, Gaddock in usefless MU (basically Any mother other than Comb/miracle) and Lands in excess. AND is the only removal useful against Combo deck, because it becomes a discard effect ;) post sb it is the fourth discard effect against combo deck and control deck (we board in 3x Seize), really powerful, we can even think to move up to 2 MD
Renegade Rallier: I love it, better than the new crucible with leg, it's a surprise effect, it allw you to do 2/3 wasteland (if u have even an active Knight) in a turnn, u don't need a crucible, once that u wasteland your opponent 3 time in a turn the game is won anyway, plus it allow you to make a great board advantage, by "reanimate" your little beast or a Jitte/Library, insane.
Big Exluded:
Tireless Tracker. Now that Miracle i no more a tier 1, I think that this card is less powerful, specially in a meta full of tempo deck, a 3/2 Cc 3 that can be countered easily by daze and that can be kiled by Bolt, forked bolt and any other reomval in the format. Is too slow does not impact the game the turn that you drop it down
sylvan safekeepr: same story of Tracker, without too many miracles around, we don't need to lock our opponents with Keeper-Gaddock. Mother of runes gained value again, and i moved up to 4 of them. The foourth mom replaced Sylvan Safekeeper.
Thalia Heretic Catar:
I love this card, really, but I can't find any space MD to insert her. Is good against Elves and Eldrazi (not played anymore) and ok vs Sneak and Show, but is not so impacting against other deck, she gives you time but is not resolutive.
Sanctum Prelate: we already have a good MU in combo pre and post sideboard, and I don't want another drop at 3, specially with WW in the mana cost. I think is just a cool card that people want to insert because is new, I tested it and I dropped after a month.
Stoneforge Mystic: I simply hate, I'm playing Maverick since the ban of survival, and are more or less 3 years that I'm not running SFM in the 75 and I think is the best choice that I have ever had.
Horizon Canopy: Yes I know, it could sound like a Blasphemy, but now that Daze is back again I prefer to run MD Caver of souls in order to make our humans uncounterable
Sideboard choices:
well is a pretty standard sideboard, the only card that I'm not sure about is Garruk Relentless. Maybe we don't need it, I'm still testing it, bringing it in vs midrange, Delver.deck and Lands
Blessed Alliance: really good vs burn, Lands (bye bye Marit Lage), and TNN decks. Anyway I bring it in vs any deck with creatures, is unexpected and u can do funny combat tricks with the "untap" effect as well (MOR and KOTR anymore?)
What do you guys think about?
To follow the topic, I tested a lot Punishin Maverick, I think is just a less powerful version of the other versions. Is stronger vs Jace.deck but this version loose ppower vs combo deck, the anti-sinergy between Thalia and P.fire is just an heartbreak! U gain good card like Huntmaster of the fells, but I think that if you want to play a midrange deck with red you should play Jund, it has more sinergy and broken cards like Broodbraid elf!
Interesting take. But if I wanted a 4cc beater, I'd go with Thrun over the Chameleon Colossus.
While the colossus is an interesting idea, Thrun doesn't need Cavern to be uncounterable and is immune to all removal (with the exceptions of Council's Judgment, Damnation, Terminus, Deluge, and often Liliana's -2, all of which also kill the colossus anyway). Immunity to Jace's -1 and the regeneration ability is also nice. Synergy with our own Karakas is an occasional perk.
Love the Thragtusk, though. Brings back fond memories of my favorite standard format
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Alright, I'll troll myself.
Without writing a bunch of paragraphs.. It's a 3 card combo, 1 of which can be GSZ or Noble, one of which can be GSZ or Excavator or Courser. That's not a very specific hand. You don't count *regular lands* in that scenario, because that's a requirement for all hands. Mav gets double ramp hands all the time.
I'm not sure why you're using the combo argument in a *maverick* thread about a 1-2of; but there's no reason you couldn't run 4 Exploration if you ran 1-2 REx and 1-2 Courser, given they are both pretty wild with it.
Also, the scenario given was an *alternative* scenario to the nice waste-out scenario. Any of the following are very good T2/T3 plays with the 3 card combo mentioned:
* wasteland
* SFM or natural Equip
* GSZ or natural [insert fat dude, probably titania]
In the aforementioned 3 card combo, something that I'm not suggesting will happen all the time [but could be made to happen at a 25% rate or something in addition to other nice openings Mav can have], you get +2 CA; which is pretty darn good; and not only is it +2 CA, but either one results in being ahead your mana by ~2 as well (double waste or double fetch) which is pretty fancy.
I think it'd be better in a deck designed to do it, but it could be that a future evolution of maverick is that deck.
Just out of curiosity, do you have experience playing maverick?
I agree with you, but the point is that I don't run any swords in my list (fire/ice, light shadow). Thrun without any sword on it is nothing more than a wall. He doesn't have any protection from colors and is just a 4/4, when he block he doesn't kill any gotf, Smasher, Gurmag. Is true that he can regenerate but he doen't help you to finish the game. Colossus can Block all this creaturw and can be pumped, in order to kill them. Plus in a meta where the dominant color is black he often becomes a winning condiction, both alone and specially alongside a MoR. The following turn after u cast it is an 8/8, if u have a bounch of creatures and a cradle, it might become a 16/16 and it's game. Against control deck Thrun is obv better than colossus, but he can resolves so many situations and MU where thrun would be totally useless (or just a wall that helps you to survive a couple of turns, waiting for a resolutive topdeck).Interesting take. But if I wanted a 4cc beater, I'd go with Thrun over the Chameleon Colossus.
While the colossus is an interesting idea, Thrun doesn't need Cavern to be uncounterable and is immune to all removal (with the exceptions of Council's Judgment, Damnation, Terminus, Deluge, and often Liliana's -2, all of which also kill the colossus anyway). Immunity to Jace's -1 and the regeneration ability is also nice. Synergy with our own Karakas is an occasional perk.
Love the Thragtusk, though. Brings back fond memories of my favorite standard format
Talking about the new crucible with leg. I tried it and I find out that with all those Shamans around i not so powerful as it seems. First of all: with a shaman in play opponents start to remove the lands that do something from your GY (wasteland, canopy, a wasted cradle ecc ecc). Second point: do we really need another ramp effect? I mever had problems with lands with this shell. I run 22 lands (1 cradle) plus 5 dorks, Dryad Arbor and 4 GSZ. Rallier can be used to ramp already and Scryb and Knight hel us with the ramp plan a lot. I feel like we are just adding a 2/3 that does what we can perfectly do without him already. By having a free slot we can add a Big creature that hel us to finish the game faster or a planeswalker like Elspeth that gives flying to our fatties.
And rock decks? I'm not really getting what you are trying to say. Because there are no other knight decks, maverick can't be worse than 4c Loam? I'm sure the spread of matchups is roughly the same for both decks across the board but in the end with 4c loam you can fall back on the Fire or Loam engines.
A.) The two decks are very different and saying they are similar just because both run Knight of the Reliquary is like saying that Maverick is like elves just because we run Deathrite and Greensuns.
B.) Let's try and focus on how to improve decks instead of just talking about how weak/strong we think Maverick is.
C.) I personally see Aggro Loam as usually just a bad lands player who wanted more creatures to attack with more than a Maverick player who decided 36 lands, Mox diamond, and less threats and less tutor effects and more susceptible to grave hate with less ability to protect the few threats it does have. But to each their own.
i think the reason why i switched back to GWB is because of the better sideboard cards in black
and because of Thalia, GoT in MB - its just a good feeling when you can tax the opponent. (especially all sorts of combo decks)
with punishing fire it is easier to beat most fair decks thats fact.
but when it comes down beating unfair decks like elves for example, against a good player like Julian Knab -
than it doesnt make a difference. a few weeks ago we made like 20 games and he beat me approx 16/4
even if i had the engine running..
now im back to GWB and test 2 Ramunap Excavators, a Courser of Kruphix and a singelton Ghost Quarter.
its fine but every matchup against an active deathrite shaman hes just an 2/3 beater.
at the moment i play 2 noble hierarch and 3 Shamans - but eventually i will test to play 3 noble / 2 shaman and a singelton phyrexian revoker to stop opponents shamans...
will see in future testing.
This is the list im currently running and i have had a decent amount of sucess. Wanted to know everyones opinion since im going to a large tournament this weekend and wanted some help fine tuning it.
4x mother of runes
4x deathrite shaman
1x birds of paradise
1x qasali pridemage
1x scavenging ooze
1x scryb ranger
1x gaddoc teeg
3x thalia, guardian of thraben
2x stoneforge mystic
4x knight of the reliquary
1x renegade rallier
1x ramunap excavator
2x thalia, heretic cathar
4x Green suns zenith
4x swords to plowshares
1x sylvan library
1x umezawas jitte
1x sword of fire and ice
1x batterskull
4x windswept heath
3x wooded foothills
1x plains
1x forest
2x bayou
2x savannah
4x wasteland
1x ghost quarter
1x maze of ith
1x cavern of souls
1x dryad arbor
1x karakas
Sideboard
2x ethersworn canonist
2x thoughtsieze
2x zealous persecution
2x surgical extration
1x farie maccabre
1x pithing needle
1x enginered plague
1x garruk relentless
1x armageddon
1x disenchant
1x abrupt decay
Overall i really like the deck. Being really toolboxy helps, and excavator wasteland/ghost quarter can punish decks that try to fetch basics against wasteland. Im going to be adding a scrubland to the list and potentially a horizon canopy. Wanted to know if anyone had any suggestions on what to add/ change before this weekend. Any help would be appreciated
@Magnaguard100
nice list!
if you own a gaeas cradle than i would swap this for Maze of Ith.
i would swap Batterskull to the sideboard (i find it too clunky and i hate it when grixis/jund plays Kolaghans Command against me)
instead of disenchant i would go with either Reclamation sage or Krosan Grip.
i dont like the armageddon and would add Chokes here
Unfortunatly i dont own a cradle, but thats a long term pickup i want to do.@Magnaguard100
nice list!
if you own a gaeas cradle than i would swap this for Maze of Ith.
i would swap Batterskull to the sideboard (i find it too clunky and i hate it when grixis/jund plays Kolaghans Command against me)
instead of disenchant i would go with either Reclamation sage or Krosan Grip.
i dont like the armageddon and would add Chokes here
What would you replace batterskull with? Another creature or a spell/land?
Main reason i like disenchant is because its 2 mana so its 1 turn faster vs chalice decks. I like rec sage, but im always afraid of humility, and i have no outs to that, but krosan grip is a possibility
I used to run choke, but against all the miracles lists they would disenchant it and i wouldnt have any value. Armageddon has won me a bunch of games against control lists where i develop a board and then geddon making my knight huge/ garruk making tokens took over thr game, but i understand chokes power.
If i were to put the batterskull in the board, what would i cut in the board for it?
Without Top in the format, I'm a bigger fan of Armageddon now than before. Too often I've lost or have seen maverick players lose when casting Armageddon only for Miracles to draw with top, cast terminus, then cast snapcaster mage or vendillion clique (that only needs 3-4 mana fyi), and then die to marsh viper beats with no lands in play.
Now that things have to be more fair I'm a bigger fan of the Armageddon plan.
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