[Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

[Ganfar]

Maindeck hasn't changed since the last time i posted it.

Sideboard
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Leyline of the Void
1 Relic of Progentius
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
1 Humility
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Collective Brutality

Yeah meta really fair where I am. There are a ton of Lands decks around but I'm favoured vs them. I think for whatever reason most people are going to think we are dead to Lands but I've played a lot vs lands (Hmmm, that's probably why I can't find a Tabernacle lol) and I do very well.

I did have a lot of time scouting and there were combo decks there like Sneak/show, Storm and Belcher but not in big numbers. And not many of them made the top 8. I know a lot of people seemed to think with Miracles mostly gone that they thought the sky would be falling and it would be just combo everywhere but Delver decks are still pretty darn good at beating most combo decks.

Yes, I agree. Delver are much better against combo then Miracles. Delver can get a fast clock and get access to Daze and Force of Will.

Sure, Miracles could close the deal with Counterbalance and Top but they will not win the game, just not lose this turn.

[Notion Thief]

I played deadguy to a rough 2-3 this past weekend(should have had a shot at taking g3 vs elves but tilted myself hard). Beat infect and death and taxes handily, got crushed by two god hands vs BR reanimator, and lost to topless miracles to miss the top 8 cut. Still having a lot of fun playing the deck at the moment.

One matchup Ive found especially tricky though is aggro-loam. That seems borderline unwinnable to me, but maybe im just not playing my lines right. Anyone else find this matchup painful?

[Jain_Mor]

The few times I've played aggro loam I've ignored everything they were doing, saved wastelands for their marit lage and then slowly killed them with lingering souls tokens and equipment. We have basics and moxes, so can't get waste locked. Waste, Shaman and SoFaI (+GY board hate) can stop punishing fire. Chalice is a pain but not that detrimental when you're playing bobs, hymns, brutalities, SFM, souls and lilis

How were you losing? What were you struggling against?

[Wilkin]

I've played vs Aggro Loam a fair bit and for me, it's in my favor. Punishing Fire is annoying but manageable most of the time. Plus I play a ton of GY hate and creature removal. Chalice is hit and miss. Sometimes it's super annoying, other times I don't draw a 1 mana card, or lol I have one but I throw it on Chrome Mox. Plus, I have a Decay, 2 Vindicate and an explosives to deal with it.

When I tried Palace Jailer it was insane, lol. Exile your Knight of the Reliquary and eot draw a card. Any creature he played promptly gets killed since I'm drawing 2 cards a turn now.

[CptHaddock]

I've been pretty 50/50 in my matchups, postboard it gets way better. Most of my games have been like your standard rock vs rock games where you just toss things at each other until something sticks and that person usually wins the game. Imo the best way to attack Aggro Loam is to attack the threat base (Liliana, Bob, Knight, the random silver bullets) and you generally win the match. Palace Jailer seems nuts against that deck.

[Wilkin]

I've been pretty 50/50 in my matchups, postboard it gets way better. Most of my games have been like your standard rock vs rock games where you just toss things at each other until something sticks and that person usually wins the game. Imo the best way to attack Aggro Loam is to attack the threat base (Liliana, Bob, Knight, the random silver bullets) and you generally win the match. Palace Jailer seems nuts against that deck.

Yeah, unfortunately I cut Palace Jailer. Too many True Name Nemesis and flash creatures like Snapcaster for Jailer to be viable IMO.

Still, Dead guy (or at least the pile I play with lol) is good vs Aggro Loam. Game 1 can be a bit rough at times but games 2 and 3 are fine.

[Sleepy_Eyes]

What is the preferred way to share a deck list for review?

I have been playing & tuning for a while and would like some empathetic feedback on my current pile of that's okay by you's guys.

[Ganfar]

What is the preferred way to share a deck list for review?

I have been playing & tuning for a while and would like some empathetic feedback on my current pile of that's okay by you's guys.

I think Jeff Hoogland did a good breakdown with this artical:

http://articles.mtgcardmarket.com/br...n-deadguy-ale/

[Notion Thief]

Interesting, i wonder why im finding aggro-loam so rough...maybe just variance not swinging my way? Do you guys run leyline of the void/RiP or surgical extraction (or both)?

Ive been running surgicals in the board but am thinking of going back to leyline because its unaffected by chancellor of the annex vs BR reanimator, and is harder to play around with loam/pfire than a deathrite.

[Mr Boltagon]

Quick and dirty tourney report on a ~20 man at my LGS over the weekend. There was a heavy representation of Blade and Delver which is actually pretty unusual for our meta, usually at least a couple DnT players, of which none turned up. Mostly dodged the ape matchups; there was one RB Reanimator, at least two SnS and two Eldrazi. Felt good to face zero equipment decks having just cut Manriki. Nailed it.

List, basically Jain's 75.

Creatures 12
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic

Spells 29
3 Chrome Mox
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thoughtseize
3 Collective Brutality
4 Hymn to Tourach
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Council's Judgment
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Lingering Souls
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull

Lands 19
1 Bayou
4 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
2 Scrubland
3 Swamp
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
3 Windswept Heath

Sideboard 15
1 Containment Priest
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
2 Cabal Therapy
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Rest in Peace
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Gideon of the Trials
2 Toxic Deluge
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar

R1 L 1-2 – BUG delver w/ TNN & Leo
Crushed the first game with an unanswered Lili, six spirits closed things out.
Post board games were close and interactive, never resolved a Deluge and needed to draw more Souls.
Feels bad to lose first round, however op was friendly and games were fun.
 

R2 W 2-1 – Grixis Delver w/ Pyro/Therapy
G1, Not much to comment on here, drew and cast multiple Souls, they did their job.
G2, Delver on the play did Delver things. Got nailed with a Daze that I should have played around after Moxing for a two drop (I think an escalated CB), then decided to play into Daze hoping there wasn’t one. There was. Daze, daze, daze, lose.
G3, see G1. ZP got me there a turn faster.

R3 W 2-0 – LED Dredge
He was clearly tired and tilted, only saw one bridge and it was in the post SB game so I had it on lock with surgical, I was also in a position to attack into it and a Jitte online to pick off my SFM.
G1, all I remember is that his dredges gave me enough time to suit up a spirit with SoFaI for max beats.
G2 he had two Firestorms in hand, lead with confluence and passed, snapped off waste on his only land with a surgical in hand.

Felt the lack of a second green source in this match as I assembled double DRS in both games, ultimately didn’t matter however – not sure if the ability to hold up double activation of DRS is even a reason to play a second G source without any actual G spells.
Side note; I’ve never been impressed with this deck, especially with RB in the format. People should just play Burn if they want a linear budget(ish) deck.

R4 W 2-1 – Turbo Depths
G1, quick token was answered by Lili with a NotW dead in hand (had the full 4, not sure this is stock?), wasn’t able to reload.
G2, I was in control most of the game with wasteland and discard, he only just snuck the combo through.
T1 Needle, didn’t crack Flats in response but whatever. T2, Depths, Needle on Waste. Hymned a 2nd Depths into the bin and surgical’d, then had double swords for when he eventually cracked the on board Depths with Stage and Cropped for Sejiri Steppe.

R5 ID – Deathblade variant (not 100% on build)
ID to Deathblade variant, 7th seed on 3-1-1

Qtr Final L 1-2 – Grixis Delver w/ Pyro/Therapy
Lost to a bit of a noob lucker, He was new to Legacy and made some new-to-Legacy plays – end step Brainstorm FTW. I swear I’m not salty. I swear.
G1, again, cast lots of Souls vs Delver and won – I think I see a pattern emerging. Lili did some work, Souls blocked some fish and then carried a SoFaI across the line.
G2 was pretty sweet; he landed a TNN and started pecking away while SFM found and slammed a Batterskull, he made a big fish. I was just behind in the race with a DRS helping out. He ended up taking BS with a Grudge that was Hymned and I was left chumping with spirit, DRS keeping me on life support. I went to 5 end of his turn, knowing I had one draw step, ripped Deluge, put myself to 7 with DRS, cast Deluge for 5. Spell Pierced with one mana up, scoop.
G3 mulled a medium 6 w/ 1 land, had TS forced, never drew a second land, end of tournament.
 
Final thoughts
I definitely made a few misplays, worst of which were mechanical; missed Bob triggers and end step DRS activations. Also, boarded out TS a bit aggressively in the Delver games leaving myself with few one drops – however I still don’t love it in the matchup.
Didn’t play against any tiered spell combo decks, both Dredge and Depths feel like good matchups – wouldn’t leave home with less than 3 Surgicals in the side. This also might lead me to over value Souls as they’re so good in the fair matchups, but I’ll be sticking with four for the time being.
Judgement main felt pretty bad all day, WW is tough. I never got to board them in, but after having done some further thinking on Therapy I don’t think they have a place in the SB. The matchups that you want it, you won’t have any incidental creatures to flashback with. I’ll be sleeving up at least a split with Duress in the future. Still unsure on two vs three Mox, never had an issue with the third copy however my experience is still a very small sample size – but I love me some fast mana gotcha.

Changes to my list;

MB
-1 Council’s Judgement, +1 Vindicate
I still like the idea of having a catchall main, even though it doesn’t tag TNN. I’m not wholly convinced this is correct use of the flex slot. I had toyed with adding IOK, but we’re already so heavy on discard. Might procure a Guile and see how that feels.

-1 Swamp, +1 Savanah
Didn’t value the basics as much as I thought I would. Necessary if I end up with a Guile main.

SB
-2 Cabal Therapy, +1 Duress, +1 Blackmail
Duress is great – as long as it’s the Urza’s Saga printing. Blackmail is a bit of a pet card, I like taking peoples lands. Don’t judge me. Should probably be a Pithing Needle, that’s what I have next for addition to the SB.

-1 Ensnaring Bridge, +1 Damnation
Bridge is terrible, everyone brings in shatters vs SFM. I do however like having another answer to creatures, possible that the third Deluge is just better but multiples against delve threats can get very painful. The split seems fine.

[Jain_Mor]

@Boltagon, thanks for running the list and + report, congrats on going 3-1-1 in swiss

I'm happy that you ended up reverting some of the changes you made back to what I had originally (2 G lands, Duress in the side etc), adds more data/testing to the list. And glad you didn't have problems with 3 moxes. Regarding bob triggers, I always put my bob next to my library whenever he is on the field, so I look at him before I draw and after 4-5 years it becomes second nature I guess.

I agree on Council's but I feel like it's a necessary evil. Maybe TNN can be answered with racing and lilianas and so Vindicate is just better. Love that it can hit lands obviously. It's for a similar reason I hesitate on Gideons, WW is tough.

Regarding bridge, you don't side it in for fair matchups that have shatter and disenchant, but for the unfair creautre decks like eldrazi, reanimator, depths and Show n Tell.

@Thief, I run 2 extracts, 1 RIP and 1 Etutor

@Sleepy, any format is fine, as long as it is cost sorted and presented in some kind of logical fashion. If lands, cmc1 and cmc5 spells are all mixed together, I don't read it. I prefer lists presented on here, than on secondary websites, but thats me.

[Fjaulnir]

Another list similar to what we've been playing did well in a 50-man tourney in England/London this weekend:

https://thelibraryatpendrellvale.com...-monthly-july/

[Jain_Mor]

Another list similar to what we've been playing did well in a 50-man tourney in England/London this weekend:

https://thelibraryatpendrellvale.com...-monthly-july/

Yea that is our list, well spotted. I wonder if they know about the source. Tournament report please if you see this...

[Whitefaces]

Yea that is our list, well spotted. I wonder if they know about the source. Tournament report please if you see this...

I'll point Niklas in this direction.

[Jain_Mor]

I'll point Niklas in this direction.

Cheers! I guess I'll be even happier if he came to the list independently

[CptHaddock]

Cheers! I guess I'll be even happier if he came to the list independently

Lol that seems a weird thing to say seeing as wilkin has been rocking a similar list for ages.

[Fjaulnir]

Lol that seems a weird thing to say seeing as wilkin has been rocking a similar list for ages.

Wilkin seems to be more of the spicy additions though? (Hero of Bladehold, Shriekmaw, Cabal Therapy), while the one Jain and me had been working on the last 1-2 months is a bit more straightforward without the typical Wilkin Chau cards.

The list that placed in London seems to be more in line with
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=16268&d=300471

than with f.ex.
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=14546&d=287271&f=LE

is what I think he meant.

[Jain_Mor]

Lol that seems a weird thing to say seeing as wilkin has been rocking a similar list for ages.

Any example of any deadguy list doing well is good and interesting to us, but we are also interested in the card choices between lists too, right?

I think it's safe to say you can differentiate between Hoogland's, Wilkin's, mine, yours and others' style of list. Given the no nonsense 4 ofs, the brutalities, lack of decays, council's and e tutor sideboard you have to admit it's likely that Niklas read one of my reports or saw Fjaulnir's report/mtgo posting. If that is so, then its great that the list is spreading and doing well for people, and thereby giving more weight to the card choices (in comparison to other builds). If that isn't the case, then he came to those card choices without our influence, and that lends more weight to them imo (convergent evolution etc), hence my comment.

I mean the goal here is to develop the most powerful builds of deadguy for the current metagame that we can all muster, right? To the point were we can nail down 95% of the card slots for each kind of build, in the same way the more populated decks in tier 1 do. That's my aim anywho, I'm here because I think this is the best non-blue midrange deck in the format right now (it wasn't previously imo), and I want to wreck with it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to claim I invented deadguy by myself; but when I decided to drop green from my junk builds, I knew what cards I was interested in playing and that talking to you guys would be the best thing to do (confirming bitterblossom and coptor aren't where we want to be for example), but the lists I saw floating around here weren't consistent enough for me or had other issues (like no DRS), so I made a build I consider leaner.

That's my thoughts anyway. Am I making sense, or am I talking out of my arse? XD Apologies if I came off in a different way though.

[CptHaddock]

Any example of any deadguy list doing well is good and interesting to us, but we are also interested in the card choices between lists too, right?

I think it's safe to say you can differentiate between Hoogland's, Wilkin's, mine, yours and others' style of list. Given the no nonsense 4 ofs, the brutalities, lack of decays, council's and e tutor sideboard you have to admit it's likely that Niklas read one of my reports or saw Fjaulnir's report/mtgo posting. If that is so, then its great that the list is spreading and doing well for people, and thereby giving more weight to the card choices (in comparison to other builds). If that isn't the case, then he came to those card choices without our influence, and that lends more weight to them imo (convergent evolution etc), hence my comment.

I mean the goal here is to develop the most powerful builds of deadguy for the current metagame that we can all muster, right? To the point were we can nail down 95% of the card slots for each kind of build, in the same way the more populated decks in tier 1 do. That's my aim anywho, I'm here because I think this is the best non-blue midrange deck in the format right now (it wasn't previously imo), and I want to wreck with it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to claim I invented deadguy by myself; but when I decided to drop green from my junk builds, I knew what cards I was interested in playing and that talking to you guys would be the best thing to do (confirming bitterblossom and coptor aren't where we want to be for example), but the lists I saw floating around here weren't consistent enough for me or had other issues (like no DRS), so I made a build I consider leaner.

That's my thoughts anyway. Am I making sense, or am I talking out of my arse? XD Apologies if I came off in a different way though.

Fair enough. I guess I misread what you were trying to say, sorry!

For those of you that run prelate in your board, is it a card that you bring in for the delver matchups?

[Mr Boltagon]

@Boltagon, thanks for running the list and + report, congrats on going 3-1-1 in swiss

I'm happy that you ended up reverting some of the changes you made back to what I had originally (2 G lands, Duress in the side etc), adds more data/testing to the list. And glad you didn't have problems with 3 moxes. Regarding bob triggers, I always put my bob next to my library whenever he is on the field, so I look at him before I draw and after 4-5 years it becomes second nature I guess.

I agree on Council's but I feel like it's a necessary evil. Maybe TNN can be answered with racing and lilianas and so Vindicate is just better. Love that it can hit lands obviously. It's for a similar reason I hesitate on Gideons, WW is tough.

Regarding bridge, you don't side it in for fair matchups that have shatter and disenchant, but for the unfair creautre decks like eldrazi, reanimator, depths and Show n Tell.

Honestly my pleasure in running the list – I’m just happy to put my Bobs and Wolf Hymns to work. Also huge fan of Souls and think it is criminally underplayed in Legacy – one of the reasons I think it is great right now.

Assuming we’re locked on the rest of the MB (obviously Fjaulnir has opened up some extra slots w/ 3 Souls, 3 Hymn) and agree that the one flex slot needs to deal with TNN, wouldn’t Deluge be better? We agree that Council’s is clunky and awkward, and I think Deluge is also more impactful vs some of our rougher to 50/50 matchups – Elves, DnT – also a great answer to the Leo decks and Pyro (however painful Deluge for 5 is to murder a fish).

On the SB Gideons, Trials is there just for testing (never cast it), it might be terrible but can at least buy some time and doesn’t hurt to have another way to turn the corner. Ally, is extremely impactful in the matchups he’s brought in, admittedly he was better when Miracles w/ Top was in the format. Post board it’s going to be a little grind-ier, with more opportunity to make land drops to get WW. Again, it’s also nice to have a big beat stick to close with or the option to -4 with Souls on board. Will always run at least one in my SB till proven wrong (I also run 1-2 in my DnT board).

Following that trend, happy to be proven wrong and sorry if Bridge has been discussed in detail earlier in the thread. I understand that it’s for the unfair matchups, even though I was a little cheeky and boarded it vs Delver. Punished. Of course.

To provide comment on each deck you listed;
Eldrazi – sweepers are arguably better even if Damnation is a little slow. I guess they can also…ratchet bomb on three…sure.
Reanimator – they’re snapping of 4 Wear//Tear, 3/4 Decay when boarding against us as they’ll have all the targets, plus fear of RIP/Leyline. And Bridge doesn’t stop them from drawing 14 cards for a shatter.
Depths – Again, their Decays are coming in. Generally a 3 off? I think this matchup is good enough, especially with three Surgicals, which I would advocate strongly.
Show n Tell – I can see an argument here, as they don’t tend to play that many U bounce effects (however they are tutor-able). We’re going to feel pretty bad when revealing Bridge vs Omniscience and then dying to Release the Ants. I have no experience with this matchup, how bad is it?

Is the experience of the players overwhelmingly in favour of Bridge? How much better is it when on the E Tutor plan?