To do what? What's the enchantment that's giving you grief?Originally Posted by Troll_ov_Grimness
It'll be hard to beat out Abrupt Decay in terms of getting rid of things no questions asked; so if you're splashing a color either way, green opens a lot of space beyond just Abrupt Decay. Golgari Charm can pull a lot of weight, and Pernicious Deed is an A+ rogue card.
A white splash does stuff, but it ends up warping the deck too far from where we're trying to stay. Yeah I mean Vindicate is cool, you can play Loyal Retainers which is exciting. But to maximize the effectiveness for these means sacrificing something in the core, so I wouldn't do it myself. The splash is best when it's just a splash.
Abrupt Decay doesn't hit Leyline of the Void
Game 2 I would side in Collective Brutality, 2 Lake of The Dead, and Wear//Tear for anti hate.
Sorry I'm in the wrong thread I thought this was for BR Reanimator
Echoing Truth solves Leyline just as well, along with a number of other cards. And then we're talking about a T4 enchantment that doesn't affect cards already in the graveyard.
If you really want it dead for good then Golgari Charm does that plus other relevant things.
But if you're also considering Lake of the Dead, then maybe we're just on different frequencies.
Well that explains it.
Soo, whats going on here? No brainstorm, and 4x lotus bloom?
Took down a 79 ppl tourney in Japan.
http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD08495W/
That's most likely 4 Lotus Petals.Soo, whats going on here? No brainstorm, and 4x lotus bloom?
Took down a 79 ppl tourney in Japan.
http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD08495W/
FoW maindeck with just 14 blue cards seems sketchy. Have to try it I guess.
Only 12 lands too! And thought I was skirting the minimum with 14. Though he did make room for Dark Ritual.
^
After goldfishing a few dozen times the FoW problem didn't come up very often partly because I could discard it to Collective Brutality when it was dead. Having counterspells with Chancellor in play feels good.
What did come up was the 12 lands. A lot of games were just mulled to oblivion due to not having mana in the opener. I tried dropping a couple CB for more lands as that seems like the most expendable card. Was a smidge more consistent but in actual practice you might feel the reduced disruption. This guy did well with it though, so...
^
Yeah one nice thing about a reanimated Chancellor is it keeps Daze alive later in the game.
An interesting take on UB:
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=16644&d=302948&f=LE
4x Chancellor, 4x Dark Ritual, No FoW, Defense Grid from the sideboard.
I wonder why someone would play this over a RB list.
Chancellor of the Annex, Lotus Petal and Dark Ritual all point towards a fast T1 reanimate, and with 4 Griselbrand it looks like that's their main target, but without any free spells, there is no protection from removal. Is the plan to just draw into a second attempt in the face of Swords to Plowshares?
Like the list looks fast but without any resilience, all of you interaction is sorcery speed. Which are the selling points of RB decks.
Interesting UBr version 5-0'd recently. Reminds me of what people used to call "Young Frankenstein".
It really seems like UBR Control with only 3 Reanimate and 2 Exhume for Grisel. Entomb for Deep Analysis as required.
The guy plays 4x Brainstorm. You could drop the 4x Brainstorm and replace it by 4x Daze for free protection.
I played against this guy and.my feeling.is, that you have to get infinitly lucky for this pile to work. He always had the right.half of the deck for my answers but.If you dont.draw.like this you will be doomed. (I might upload the video later) You have the surprise.factor on your side though.
I've tried this list a little bit just via goldfishing. Yes, it does run more like RB Reanimator, aiming to be very fast and very redundant so that it can reanimate multiple creatures per game if need be. From my limited tinkering, I think the reason to play this over RB is for access to Brainstorm (and possibly Ponder if you cram a couple in). One thing I've noticed playing against RB is that they quickly fall into topdeck mode, and they don't have much to help them dig besides Faithless Looting, which doesn't help if you don't have anything else left to discard besides the cards you draw with it. This build gives the deck just a little more opportunity to dig for 'the right card' after the opening hand is depleted.
The other goal of the deck is to ramp up the pressure via discard rather than relying on counters. Currently, discard seems to be viewed as stronger than leaning on countermagic, especially against decks like Sneak and Show, Storm, and perhaps Topless Miracles. Daze is weak on the draw and can rot in your hand if there's no good use for it on the first 1-2 turns, so it's a terrible late draw. E.g., I think there have been 3 times in recent games where an opponent played something I needed to counter, but the Daze in my hand was worthless b/c they had a mana left open. Conversely, I can only recall successfully Dazing a single spell in recent weeks. The Defense Grids are likely a response to a meta with lots of Delver and Miracles strategies.
That said, on first impression I'm not too impressed with the deck. Like RB Reanimator, it tends to empty its hand really fast and then it has little to work with after the first turn or two. If they draw into their removal or they have more removal than you have discard spells, then you're going nowhere fast. I also found this version harder to SB with. In the Daze version of the deck, it's pretty routine to side out the Dazes on the draw, opening up room for good SB tech pieces. But in this version there's less to sideboard out without cutting discard spells, but those are meant to be the protection for your fatties, so cutting them post-board leaves you even more vulnerable to your opponent's interaction.
I thus suspect I'll return to the more traditional build. I kinda like the Defense Grids in the SB vs a counter-heavy meta. I'm less sold on the W splash for Serenity as an answer to Cage/RIP/Leyline since you have to wait a full turn for it to work, they see it coming a mile away, and it messes with your mana base a little.
Agreed, it looks like a Grixis Control list forgoing Gurmag Anglers for a different wincon. Grisel & elesh may be stronger than Angler, but are the extra hoops you have to jmp through really worth it?
I've always liked the idea of Grixis Reanimator, but I can't convince myself that R adds enough to the deck to make it worthwhile to stretch into 3 colors. Faithless Looting is a thing but you have plenty of discard via B. I've never been a huge fan of Izzet Charm in the deck; you're paying more mana- and splashing a third color- to do things that U and B can do at lower CMCs. I do, however, like the idea of Firestorm, at least as a SB option vs small creature decks.
T1: Deathrite Shaman (or Mom or Delver)
My T1: Firestorm discarding 2, two damage to you and your weenie. possibly follow up with Lotus Petal and Reanimate.
Abrade might also be a SB option for dealing with both small creatures and artifact-based graveyard hate such as Cage.
That deck posted is by me. I 5-0'd two leagues a while ago and I only played it because I submitted it by mistake. The sideboard at the time was really bad and I had made the deck list earlier in the year. Since then I've cut stupid stuff like Serenity, which I was playing when Eldrazi was in a huge upswing on MTGO.
Personally, I don't think my deck is a 'UB' build of Reanimator. I'm not playing any of the traditional permission and I'm trying to go as fast as possible to condense the game into as few decisions as I can. I want to beat Deathrite Shaman with speed and overloading their counter magic. I don't think this style is superior to another, just the kind I like to play personally.
For those who are interested, I have a current list:
4 Griselbrand
4 Chancellor of the Annex
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Tidespout Tyrant
4 Entomb
3 Animate Dead
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study
3 Collective Brutality
2 Thoughtseize
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
1 Island
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Underground Sea
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Show and Tell
1 Inkwell Leviathan
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Massacre
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Defense Grid
I'm a big fan of Defense Grid as a sideboard option but it's obviously terrible if you're trying to play your own counterspells. I play the card as a colorless Duress most of the time because it usually eats Force of Wills. I've liked Engineered Explosives and is worth trying out. It plays well against Death and Taxes as Thalia doesn't do anything to it and it's nice to just be able to play it on one and just leave it there to set up a turn to blow up their DRS and then reanimate something.
Thanks for the info on the deck, and congrats on the 5-0 finishes! Yeah, it does seem to play out more like the RB reanimator lists than the traditional UB lists. I think I'll stick to a more traditional UB build for now, though there are some ideas in your list I like. E.g., I'm wondering if it' worth siding out FoW vs UW decks; I have little chance of out-countering them, so perhaps siding into Defense Grid + more hand disruption is worth trying.
I much prefer to have discard + defense grid against blue decks because you know what kind of hate you have to play against and have a card that shuts down all of their counters. Counter vs Counters won't work out for you because you're forced to reanimate something otherwise you can't win. They just get to sit back and wait for you to make the plays. However, Countermagic is much better when playing in combo mirrors. You have a lot of good reanimation targets, but sometimes they just go faster than you. Since reanimating things doesn't cost a lot of mana, counter spells allow you to protect yourself and advance your game plan. It's not that one is better than the other, just based on how you prefer to play and what's better at a given time.
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