[Primer] R/G Lands

[Crimhead]

Are you having problems drawing the combo on line with the 61-card maindeck?

I haven't run 60 cards in Lands for years. 61 cards does not significantly impact the odds of drawing into anything important, but it does provide a more versatile tool box. 61 is common with this deck.

[Ascension1223]

I don't see any notes on the match up against 12 post. Anyone able to weigh in with sideboard choices or goals?

I've lost several matches to it. Even with Wasteland and GQ (x4) they just seem to be able to power out mana producing artifacts and critters too fast for me.

[Tekko]

Horizon Canopy vs Sheltered Thicket vs Tranquil Thicket?

I'm assuming you want Sheltered over the other two if you're playing Molten Vortex?
I'm assuming you want Horizon over the other two if you're heavy into Manabond?

Any advice on card choice and count and under what circumstances?

[Ascension1223]

Horizon Canopy vs Sheltered Thicket vs Tranquil Thicket?

I'm assuming you want Sheltered over the other two if you're playing Molten Vortex?
I'm assuming you want Horizon over the other two if you're heavy into Manabond?

Any advice on card choice and count and under what circumstances?

I use all three for different things. Tranquil to protect life from the loam. Horizon as a hedge land source of I think I might get a lucky crop rotate vs having to protect life, and Sheltered is often my fetch target when I'm in a slow game early, or a decent cycler late.

[djxstream]

Had a hand vs Storm G2 on the draw (yes i won g1 with a timely crop rotation/bog vs past in flames) that i eventually lost with, but curious if it was the right keep.

1 fetch
1 taiga
2 mox diamonds
1 wasteland
1 ghost quarter
1 tireless tracker


in g1 my opponent hit his own life total hard between a lot of probes and fetches. so my mind set was, I can apply very fast pressure with this hand as well as wasteland a dual on my t2.

He leads with delta and does nothing. I put in play the wasteland, both moxes (discarding taiga/gq) and tracker.

Next turn he goes volc/brainstorm, i waste the volc on my turn, play the fetch land, pop a clue and attack. another pair of turns later he goes down to 7 life and i have a 5 power tracker. spend my mana to pop two clues, and attack for 7. chain of vapor. he goes one more turn with a cantrip, I recast tracker, then he wins.

So the question is, would you keep that hand?

[supremePINEAPPLE]

I'm personally throwing that one back for better interaction every time. T1 tracker is definitely a clock but it's not a great one as you saw and it pigeonholes you into hoping they have a draw that fails because of a single wasteland. I'd rather just try to mulligan into a mana rock or a quicker kill, especially on the first mulligan.

What all did you board in?

[rlesko]

Had a hand vs Storm G2 on the draw (yes i won g1 with a timely crop rotation/bog vs past in flames) that i eventually lost with, but curious if it was the right keep.

1 fetch
1 taiga
2 mox diamonds
1 wasteland
1 ghost quarter
1 tireless tracker

So the question is, would you keep that hand?

Not a chance. You have no interaction at all. Aside from that, you get absolutely crushed by probe / therapy, or a decay. I would keep a fast tracker on a 5 card hand or something, but not a 7.

[djxstream]

I'm personally throwing that one back for better interaction every time. T1 tracker is definitely a clock but it's not a great one as you saw and it pigeonholes you into hoping they have a draw that fails because of a single wasteland. I'd rather just try to mulligan into a mana rock or a quicker kill, especially on the first mulligan.

What all did you board in?

I play a black splash. 4 thoughtseizes, 2 collective brutality, 1 chalice and 3 trackers come in for mazes, karakas, decays, vortex, chasm

for the record, g3 was won on the back of a t1 thoughtseize followed by a chalice for zero.

[rlesko]

I play a black splash. 4 thoughtseizes, 2 collective brutality, 1 chalice and 3 trackers come in for mazes, karakas, decays, vortex, chasm

for the record, g3 was won on the back of a t1 thoughtseize followed by a chalice for zero.

I'm really interested in the black splash, got a list? How many fetches / bayous?

[djxstream]

I'm really interested in the black splash, got a list? How many fetches / bayous?

https://deckstats.net/decks/26345/68...b-lands?lng=en

The tranquil thicket is now a sheltered thicket, but otherwise unchanged.

[rlesko]

Primary reason for running Thoughtseize over Duress? Do you bring in Thoughtseize against fair decks to discard hate cards?

[djxstream]

Primary reason for running Thoughtseize over Duress? Do you bring in Thoughtseize against fair decks to discard hate cards?

I'll take the life loss over a restriction. But no i typically dont bring them in vs fair matchups.

[mechint]

Seize discard emrakul/griselbrand against show .

[Wiktul]

There are 5 videos at LibraryAtThePendrellVale of Tom Kellock playing RG against MonoR Sneak, Miracles, Reanimator Depths, Goblins and Elves. Playing suprisingly badly, I must add...

[Dice_Box]

Yea people, we are back.

[Lichking616]

RUG or RG? pros and cons?


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[Crimhead]

RUG or RG? pros and cons?

It boils down to a combination of meta-call + personal comfort/style.

Nobody is really playing Intuition anymore, so RUG is typically a single Trop for Academy Ruins (to support EE). Worth noting a winning list at MKM Prague was running a second Trop and 2 Tolaria Wests.

EE gives us a lot of resilience to almost any problematic permanents (cheated-in fatties not withstanding). Against fair decks, this can easily kill anything with cc 3 or lower, often with card advantage. It comes back from the yard and DRS cannot eat it. You won't need other sweepers in the board.

The downside is deck space. Since EE gives inevitability and a better "long game", you will generally cut back on speed - eg, extra copies of Stage and Depths, plus maybe Manabond. You probably also drop to 3 PF, but the big effect is slowing down the combo.

Tolaria West will slow you down even more (both from being a 3cc tutor and by taking even more deck space for a second Trop). It's not very popular these days, but it's a total bomb vs fair decks that run counter-magic and also put up a lot of pressure. T.West lets you (without risk of counter-spells) find Chasm, EE, combo pieces, Zorb, or any utility land in your toolbox. It can also recur from the yard, which your other tutors cannot do, making it the ideal late-game tutor.

It's basically an all-star in any match where Crop Rotation loses value. Again, not a very popular card, but I personally find it terrific.

TLDR - A blue splash for EE is better in a grindy match but worse when you want to race. Throwing in T.West further exaggerates the difference.

Also worth noting there is a RBG version with maindeck ADs and Thoughtseize in the SB. I've never played that build so I won't comment much on the pros & cons. But if I understand the deck is a little worse at doing what Lands does (aka, beating up on fair decks), but is better vs combo.

[grmpytopdecker]

There are 5 videos at LibraryAtThePendrellVale of Tom Kellock playing RG against MonoR Sneak, Miracles, Reanimator Depths, Goblins and Elves. Playing suprisingly badly, I must add...

He has had a lot of success playing Lands at larger events, so I wonder what is up with his play in those videos. Maybe up too late playing after a long day at work?


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[jarvisyu]

He has had a lot of success playing Lands at larger events, so I wonder what is up with his play in those videos. Maybe up too late playing after a long day at work?


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From personal experience, streaming or recording a video cuts your playskill by about 50%.

[Ascension1223]

It boils down to a combination of meta-call + personal comfort/style.

Nobody is really playing Intuition anymore, so RUG is typically a single Trop for Academy Ruins (to support EE). Worth noting a winning list at MKM Prague was running a second Trop and 2 Tolaria Wests.

EE gives us a lot of resilience to almost any problematic permanents (cheated-in fatties not withstanding). Against fair decks, this can easily kill anything with cc 3 or lower, often with card advantage. It comes back from the yard and DRS cannot eat it. You won't need other sweepers in the board.

The downside is deck space. Since EE gives inevitability and a better "long game", you will generally cut back on speed - eg, extra copies of Stage and Depths, plus maybe Manabond. You probably also drop to 3 PF, but the big effect is slowing down the combo.

Tolaria West will slow you down even more (both from being a 3cc tutor and by taking even more deck space for a second Trop). It's not very popular these days, but it's a total bomb vs fair decks that run counter-magic and also put up a lot of pressure. T.West lets you (without risk of counter-spells) find Chasm, EE, combo pieces, Zorb, or any utility land in your toolbox. It can also recur from the yard, which your other tutors cannot do, making it the ideal late-game tutor.

It's basically an all-star in any match where Crop Rotation loses value. Again, not a very popular card, but I personally find it terrific.

TLDR - A blue splash for EE is better in a grindy match but worse when you want to race. Throwing in T.West further exaggerates the difference.

Also worth noting there is a RBG version with maindeck ADs and Thoughtseize in the SB. I've never played that build so I won't comment much on the pros & cons. But if I understand the deck is a little worse at doing what Lands does (aka, beating up on fair decks), but is better vs combo.

Has anyone tried putting the RUG tools in the sideboard? Transforming the deck in game 2/3?