[Primer] Nic Fit

[Warden]

@Navsi: Congrats! That was an excellent write-up. Some savage beats too (the Storm matchup to float you into top 8 is just ridiculous).

With the meta kinda establishing itself, what are people's thoughts about Engineered Explosives? We're all running 3x colors. Deathrite can bump it to 4. It's supplemental sweeping against swarm strategies, nukes 0-2cc like butter, but also gets rid of planeswalkers and equipment. Is it too slow for the meta? Hell, if this deck is functioning at all, we have loads of time. I'm curious because I think I'd try some out if I take Nic Fit somewhere. Or am I being overly optimistic? Is EE in the same collection-purgatory as Vindicate?

[square_two]

@Navsi: Congrats! That was an excellent write-up. Some savage beats too (the Storm matchup to float you into top 8 is just ridiculous).

With the meta kinda establishing itself, what are people's thoughts about Engineered Explosives? We're all running 3x colors. Deathrite can bump it to 4. It's supplemental sweeping against swarm strategies, nukes 0-2cc like butter, but also gets rid of planeswalkers and equipment. Is it too slow for the meta? Hell, if this deck is functioning at all, we have loads of time. I'm curious because I think I'd try some out if I take Nic Fit somewhere. Or am I being overly optimistic? Is EE in the same collection-purgatory as Vindicate?

I've never really seen it suggested. It's indeed a cheaper wrath against tokens, if that is going to come up in storm matchups that want to empty the warrens on you. Hitting walkers is not much of a deal unless you want to use it in a 4c build to hit Jace. Seems like there are other cards to better handle Jace though. Decay hits the 3cmc walkers just fine.

Pernicious Deed is just such a good sweeper at clearing the entire board (apart from walkers). Getting rid of the opponent's Leo, Strix, AND Deathrite all in one go is a huge reason to keep Deed available as a general answer. The more example I think of, the better "X or less" gets over "X".

Edit: Having maindeck Therapies also further the arguments for Deed, since we can name and take multiple of the same cmc threat that our opp might have.

[Brael]

@Navsi: Congrats! That was an excellent write-up. Some savage beats too (the Storm matchup to float you into top 8 is just ridiculous).

With the meta kinda establishing itself, what are people's thoughts about Engineered Explosives? We're all running 3x colors. Deathrite can bump it to 4. It's supplemental sweeping against swarm strategies, nukes 0-2cc like butter, but also gets rid of planeswalkers and equipment. Is it too slow for the meta? Hell, if this deck is functioning at all, we have loads of time. I'm curious because I think I'd try some out if I take Nic Fit somewhere. Or am I being overly optimistic? Is EE in the same collection-purgatory as Vindicate?

I think Maelstrom Pulse accomplishes the same thing, while having additional utility, at a lower mana cost (on average). And then there's Deed.

[Echelon]

It's the "or less" part that does it. That's the difference between wiping half the board and the entire board.

[Fatal]

There is more hate against artifacts then enchantments nowadays. So we can be surprised by some K.command if we put EE eariler to blow it next turn.

Sidenote: EE works best with Glissa against Elves :-).

[Navsi]

There is more hate against artifacts then enchantments nowadays. So we can be surprised by some K.command if we put EE eariler to blow it next turn.

Sidenote: EE works best with Glissa against Elves :-).

To be fair, if you got the opportunity to untap with a 3 mana relatively non-interactive creature on the battlefield against Elves, you probably are already in a pretty solid position.

[Brael]

There is more hate against artifacts then enchantments nowadays. So we can be surprised by some K.command if we put EE eariler to blow it next turn.

Sidenote: EE works best with Glissa against Elves :-).

If you play EE early against Elves, one of two things will happen. They will either Reclamation Sage it, or they'll kill you before you get a turn to use it.

[Kobra_D]

Evening Nic Fit-ters(??)

I've had moderate success in my locals playing rhino fit for a while now, and although I enjoy the junk build a lot, part of the great thing with nic fit is the ability to explore options.

For the next few weeks I really want to play a different flavor of nic fit just to see what's out there (aside from nyx fit). So, if anyone has any cool ideas that they've wanted to try but never did let me know. I am not worried if it is super competitive, this is more of a scientific curiosity over anything else.

I have played Abzhan Pod in the past, I was on Rhino fit for a long while, and last night I took a BUG Delirium build boasting Emrakul, the promised end to a 3-1 finish at my locals.

Checking the front page for ideas I saw a tertiary section that included the cards crack the earth, and perilous research. So, if anyone has brewed on a RUG build before, I am definitely going to be toying around with that.

[square_two]

Evening Nic Fit-ters(??)

I've had moderate success in my locals playing rhino fit for a while now, and although I enjoy the junk build a lot, part of the great thing with nic fit is the ability to explore options.

For the next few weeks I really want to play a different flavor of nic fit just to see what's out there (aside from nyx fit). So, if anyone has any cool ideas that they've wanted to try but never did let me know. I am not worried if it is super competitive, this is more of a scientific curiosity over anything else.

New ideas you say? I've had a lot of random ideas lately but not much time to test everything. Still working through league #3 for the GB Helm Fit list I posted earlier, have made a few small tweaks to it. It's...humorous at least. Have had some busted plays, helmed a Sneak/Show player for 6 to take an Emrakul XD

Tokens/Words Fit

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Gaddock Teeg

4 Cabal Therapy
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Collective Brutality
4 Sylvan Library
2 Diabolic Intent
4 Intangible Virtue
4 Lingering Souls
2 Words of Wilding
3 Green Sun's Zenith

3 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar // or one of these as Garruk Relentless
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion

3 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
2 Bayou
2 Scrubland
2 Savannah
7 fetches
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Gavony Township

There could be something with the "Words of" + Sylvan Library combo. Library naturally helps us be more consistent. The Words enchantments do work with multiple Libraries on the board (I believe they should at least). Walkers seems like it would generally work with Words of Wilding since you can be "doing" something at the same time as tapping out to make tokens. Gideon, Ally of Zendikar particularly seems great, but Nissa can also buff the board.

I'm so so tempted to try a 1-2 of Muraganda Petroglyphs with token walkers, Words of Wilding, and Diabolic Intent. But that means losing Souls...Intangible might be enough. Tracker clues could mean that you instant-speed discard lock someone out of the game with Words of Waste, or at least for a few turns while you bash in. Some of these toy with the idea of running less Deed which could be a bad idea unless the swarm of tokens actually works out well enough. Intangible on the board means you could Toxic Deluge / Golgari Charm just fine in order to wipe TNN, Young Pyro, etc. Generally I think Tangible + a single Souls could actually end games though, and Gideon is a hassle for some decks anyway.

Some of this thinking started with me wanting to run 2 Gideons in Nyx Fit but not figuring out what to cut. (Also, lol at Intangible Virtue + Dovescape) Secure the Wastes + Muraganda/Intangible sounds fun as well but then I saw the Wilding combo with Library and figured it might be more impactful.

Edit: Gideon's dropped in price quite a bit online, making some of this testing quite a bit easier. Also have not seen much Elves lately which makes me slightly more open to throwing Deeds/Deluges in the side, or at least primarily maindecking Deluge. Deck like this is also completely backwards - the primary meta sweeper right now is Toxic Deluge which is super easy to snipe out of opp's hand with Therapy/Brutality. It's like switching roles lol.

[Echelon]

If you play EE early against Elves, one of two things will happen. They will either Reclamation Sage it, or they'll kill you before you get a turn to use it.

Since GSZ for Reclamation Sage costs the same as NO you, indeed, are dead.

Then there's option B: they slowroll you w/ a couple of dudes (which will still cause you to lose life at a very rapid pace).

And option C: They use a board roughly the size of option B's to start bouncing a Shaman of the Pack, ignoring any blockers you might have and forcing you into blowing up EE that way.

Evening Nic Fit-ters(??)

I've had moderate success in my locals playing rhino fit for a while now, and although I enjoy the junk build a lot, part of the great thing with nic fit is the ability to explore options.

For the next few weeks I really want to play a different flavor of nic fit just to see what's out there (aside from nyx fit). So, if anyone has any cool ideas that they've wanted to try but never did let me know. I am not worried if it is super competitive, this is more of a scientific curiosity over anything else.

I have played Abzhan Pod in the past, I was on Rhino fit for a long while, and last night I took a BUG Delirium build boasting Emrakul, the promised end to a 3-1 finish at my locals.

Checking the front page for ideas I saw a tertiary section that included the cards crack the earth, and perilous research. So, if anyone has brewed on a RUG build before, I am definitely going to be toying around with that.

Well... If it doesn't have to be too competitive and you mainly want to have fun - there is the infamous Summoner's Egg option, which I dubbed Timmy Nic Fit . It's a Junk Fit list that wins through Emrakul, Iona, Elesh Norn and whatnot. If you want, I have a list lying around somewhere.

[Navsi]

Evening Nic Fit-ters(??)

I've had moderate success in my locals playing rhino fit for a while now, and although I enjoy the junk build a lot, part of the great thing with nic fit is the ability to explore options.

For the next few weeks I really want to play a different flavor of nic fit just to see what's out there (aside from nyx fit). So, if anyone has any cool ideas that they've wanted to try but never did let me know. I am not worried if it is super competitive, this is more of a scientific curiosity over anything else.

I have played Abzhan Pod in the past, I was on Rhino fit for a long while, and last night I took a BUG Delirium build boasting Emrakul, the promised end to a 3-1 finish at my locals.

Checking the front page for ideas I saw a tertiary section that included the cards crack the earth, and perilous research. So, if anyone has brewed on a RUG build before, I am definitely going to be toying around with that.

Brews I've put together recently:

Dino-Jund:

3 Tireless Tracker, 3 Huntmaster, 2 Regisaur Alpha, 2 Carnage Tyrant. Liliana LH to recur threats. Maybe a Recurring Nightmare to go with the token making creatures. Fill out the deck with removal/discard, pile of combo hate in the sideboard. Since we have more aggressive threats, possible to run Price of Progress as Lands/Pile hate.

Ranumap Abzan:

Ranumap Excavator, Knight of the Reliquary, Tireless Tracker. Possibly Azusa or Oracle of Mul Daya to accelerate with. Run a Ghost Quarter and Horizon Canopy for payoff. Scryb Ranger is sweet with KOTR too. Titania for a finisher, probably with Sylvan Safekeeper.

Prophet BUG:

Prophet of Kruphix is an absurd card. Flashing in Leovolds is particularly amusing. Possibly run some form of instant speed creature tutor to yank leovold out of your deck when needed - Summoner's Pact? Sylvan Safekeeper also seems pretty good to flash in, and with Titania for endstep 10+ power.

[Echelon]

RamunAbzan

C'mon man! Fixed that for you.

[Kobra_D]

Token Fit

This list seems sweet. I'm definitely going to think about this one a little more carefully. Although the first thought is usually Gideon when in comes to going wide, I really like the Sorin series of planeswalkers. Sure, the vampire tokens aren't as big as knights but they usually come with lifelink or flying which can be overwhelming. That and bitterblossom would be immediate considerations for a token based deck.

And even though the value of intagible virtue is obvious I would probably just play more discard spells and wrath effects. No matter what the game looks like you wipe their hand and then board, then keep going plus with planeswalkers to value out the game.

This might be a bit different from your original intention but I think it's worth considertation. I'll post a list when I've tinkered with it a bit more.

...Summoner's Egg...

How have I not seen this card sooner. I may come back and ask you for a list but I'm going to explore the possibilities with this first. *I think any list would be a sub-par sneak fit list but let's see where this goes.

Brews I've put together recently:
(a) Dino-Jund:
(b) Ranumap Abzan:
(c) Prophet BUG:

(a) I've also been keeping an eye on the dinosaurs (the most stated comment during this spoiler season), but I feel like I might be pidgeon-holed into wanting to play just play 4 ripjaw raptor and Olivia Voldaren. I feel this falls in the too cute to actually be good but I'm probably going to start there with a jund list

(b) I get those cards all work together, but that starts to feel a lot like a nic- fit/maverick hybrid. I'm not ready to go there yet.

(c) I can't believe that card fell off my radar after it was banned in edh. The one downside to Leovold is that he doesn't have flash like notion thief. At the very least I'm adding that back to my BUG list to work from there.

Thanks for the quick responses and ideas everyone. My lgs only does legacy on Wednesdays, so, I'll probably put up my next attempt at a list on Monday (probably token fit to start). If anyone else has cool ideas I'm happy to try them to the best of my ability.

[Brael]

Thanks for the quick responses and ideas everyone. My lgs only does legacy on Wednesdays, so, I'll probably put up my next attempt at a list on Monday (probably token fit to start). If anyone else has cool ideas I'm happy to try them to the best of my ability.

I've thought about a Naya list, Crack the Earth and Pyroclasm as sacrifice outlets alongside GSZ. Use white for the Ranger of Eos package, and add Dragonmaster Outcast to the 1 drops you can get as finishers. Alternatively, use Imperial Recruiter and play blue for Trinket Mage over White.

[Navsi]

I've thought about a Naya list, Crack the Earth and Pyroclasm as sacrifice outlets alongside GSZ. Use white for the Ranger of Eos package, and add Dragonmaster Outcast to the 1 drops you can get as finishers. Alternatively, use Imperial Recruiter and play blue for Trinket Mage over White.

The other problem is that your core package no longer includes discard as standard, which means you need a lot of hate bears to make combo lists not a complete whitewash.

[Brael]

The other problem is that your core package no longer includes discard as standard, which means you need a lot of hate bears to make combo lists not a complete whitewash.

Losing discard when moving away from a black core is an issue, but there are blue cores that can also interact. Perhaps instead of Naya, RUG would be better.

I think there's ways you can build such a list that it's not too soft to combo. Teeg for example with the ability to consistently ramp to 3 on T2 goes a long way.

[Ulysse95]

I've thought about a Naya list, Crack the Earth and Pyroclasm as sacrifice outlets alongside GSZ. Use white for the Ranger of Eos package, and add Dragonmaster Outcast to the 1 drops you can get as finishers. Alternatively, use Imperial Recruiter and play blue for Trinket Mage over White.

Don't forget crop rotation package as a sac outlet and options against some unfair decks

[ObligatoryReference]

Does anyone have an up-to-date Nyx Fit list? There was a brief discussion about it on reddit (specifically a version playing Dovescape and Sandwurm Convergence) and I kinda want to give it a shot.

[Ulysse95]

Does anyone have an up-to-date Nyx Fit list? There was a brief discussion about it on reddit (specifically a version playing Dovescape and Sandwurm Convergence) and I kinda want to give it a shot.

1 [R] Bayou
1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [US] Phyrexian Tower
1 [R] Savannah
1 [R] Scrubland
1 [CS] Snow-Covered Plains
1 [SH] Volrath's Stronghold
2 [UNH] Swamp
2 [TE] Wasteland
3 [] Windswept Heath
4 [UNH] Forest
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
1 [] Eternal Witness
1 [] Ramunap Excavator
4 [UD] Academy Rector
4 [] Veteran Explorer
1 [ISD] Curse of Death's Hold
1 [DIS] Dovescape
1 [] Overwhelming Splendor
1 [] Starfield of Nyx
2 [] Pernicious Deed
3 [] Evolutionary Leap
3 [TE] Mirri's Guile
2 [RTR] Abrupt Decay
2 [UL] Crop Rotation
2 [] Collective Brutality
2 [DKA] Lingering Souls
3 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
4 [JU] Cabal Therapy
SB: 1 [] Reclamation Sage
SB: 1 [IN] Sterling Grove
SB: 2 [BNG] Spirit of the Labyrinth
SB: 1 [] Golgari Charm
SB: 1 [] Containment Priest
SB: 1 [] Bojuka Bog
SB: 3 [M11] Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 2 [] Lost Legacy
SB: 3 [NPH] Surgical Extraction

[Kobra_D]

Losing discard when moving away from a black core is an issue, but there are blue cores that can also interact. Perhaps instead of Naya, RUG would be better.

I think there's ways you can build such a list that it's not too soft to combo. Teeg for example with the ability to consistently ramp to 3 on T2 goes a long way.

Since I'm waiting to play a jund version with dinosaurs, I've been looking at Temur to brew. It's hard to solidify what the deck is trying to do but I think I might have something something to start with. The point is to remain at parity with your opponent, either through counterspells or bounce spells, while getting ahead on mana.

The parity apart from the land count can then lead to a big upheaval effect or just keep buying cards back with eternal witness, and venser. Something is not quite right but I think the directions is pretty sweet (it is kind of a port of the modern deck eternal command).


//Creatures
4 Veteren Explorer
4 Eternal Witness
3 Venser, Shaper Savant
4 Sakura Tribe Elder

//Instant./Sorceries
4 Punishing Fire
4 Crack the Earth
4 Perilous Research
4 Force of Will
2 Brainstorm
2 Counterspell
1 Cyclonic Rift
2 Cryptic Command

//Lands
3 Forest
3 Island
1 Mountain
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Taiga
2 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Misty Rainforest


The best non-black sac outlets that I've found so far are:

//G
Life's Legacy

//R
infernal plunge
fiery conclusion
collateral damage

//W
Angelic Purge
Extricator of Sin

//U
silumgar sorcerer
sidisi's faithful

//GW
Altar of Bone
Dromoka's command
//(fight+ utility)


A lot of them are not coming down on turn 2 but that's the price we pay.

Also, @Navsi, I was a bit curious about your BUG list. What lead you to the top end in the maindeck of distended mindbreaker, elder deep fiend, and prime time? Were you bringing them for specific match ups or just trying out something different?

I apologize if you have discussed this already, I didn't find it in my cursory glance over the past few pages.