[Deck] Turbo Depths

[gngpostalsrvc]

Hello everyone! I’m trying to put together a sideboard guide using DNSolver’s Legacy challenge list for a big tournament at my LGS this weekend. Here’s what I have so far based on what I expect to face. Any help tweaking and/or filling in the blanks would be greatly appreciated!

Czech Pile

+4 Abrupt Decay
+2 Surgical Extraction?
+1 Pithing Needle Needle?

-4 ESG
-???

Grixis Delver

+4 Decay
+1 Needle

-4 Lotus Petal
-1 Duress

Elves

Do we sideboard at all? If so, +4 Abrupt Decays, +1 Pithing Needle?

Some of the latest lists on MTGO have been running Crop Rotation for Karakas.

ANT / TES

+4 Mindbreak Trap
+2 Surgical Extraction
+3 Sylvan Library

-3 Sylvan Scrying
-3 Sylvan Safekeeper
-3 Pithing Needle

Miracles

+4 Abrupt Decay
+3 Sylvan Library
+2 Surgical

-8 fast mana
-1 Pithing Needle

Stoneblade

+4 Abrupt Decay
+3 Sylvan Library
+2 Surgical Extraction

-8 fast mana
-1???

Eldrazi

+4 Abrupt Decay
+1 Pithing Needle

-???

Death and Taxes

+1 Pithing Needle
+4 Abrupt Decay

-4 Lotus Petal
-1 Map / Scrying

Burn

+4 Abrupt Decay

-3 Pithing Needle
-1 Sejiri Steppe

Lands

-8 fast mana

+2 Surgical Extraction
+1 Needle
+1 Karakas
+3 library
+1 Decay

BR Reanimator

+4 Mindbreak Trap
+2 Surgical Extraction
+1 Karakas

-3 Sylvan Safekeeper
-3 Sylvan Scrying
-1 Pithing Needle

Sneak and Show

+4? Abrupt Decay
+1 Needle
+1 Karakas

-3 Safekeeper
-???

[DNSolver]

Why Surgical vs 4-color?

Sylvan Library is fine vs Czech, Sneak and Show, and great vs Death and Taxes.

[Negator77']

Why Surgical vs 4-color?

Sylvan Library is fine vs Czech, Sneak and Show, and great vs Death and Taxes.

My guess would be to fight Snapcaster, especially snap/edict. I don't personally board in surgical in that mu either fwiw.

I think it would be a perfect fit for the deck, considering this deck wanted to play Git Probe, but the cost could potentially be an issue. Gets information which is critical for a combo deck, and preemtively answers several answers to this specific deck (Karakas, Wasteland, Liliana).

Being a 2 drop is a big deal. It's almost better suited for tomb/city decks. DNT having Thalia making it cost 3 and general mana denial immediately come to mind. This getting dazed much easier is an issue as well. Does Depths really need 5+ copies of this kind of effect? If not, the question is - is this better than Needle?

[Claymore]

I haven't played Depths in a while, but I think it would be worthwhile to look at what matchups you really need the Needle for. Then take a look at which match ups are impacted by the 1vs 2 mana cost.

Needle is when you want to get a blazing fast kill. I think Spyglass is when you're wanting to sculpt a little and no go off without the best information.

Obviously everyone runs Wasteland, but the key decks with it are Delver variants, Lands, and DnT. From what I recall, Delver is typically crushed a blazing Depths. Going for a blazing kill against Lands or DnT seems like a bad idea typically.

Lands has Wasteland, Maze, and Stage as targets for Needle, but I don't know if you sculpt here. They would typically just Waste on sight I think.

DnT has a ton of targets you can turn off, especially Vial, but being 2 mana hurts for sure. Being able to look and see if there's a Wisp that you need to disable that active Vial is good, or if they're sandbagging Karakas instead. This is a long game and maybe you have time to drop a Spyglass.

Then you have Liliana or Jace with and without Wasteland. Those match ups can be quick and you may want to just throw out a turn 1 blind needle and try to kill T3.

With combo decks, Spyglass would be better in a vacuum (you can look and turn off key Fetches or Sneak/Grisel as appropriate) but I think you would just cut them anyway.

[warfordium]

stopping in to give a quick report on having played a version of Eli's Wish list at a Card Kingdom/Mox Boarding House 1k.

I played 3/3/3/3 Gitaxian Probe, Cabal Therapy, Thoughtseize, Duress split and went up to 2 Sylvan Safekeeper in the main. I also played 3 Bayou to make room for Bog in the main.

sideboard:

//(Anti-)Hate
3x Surgical Extraction
3x Abrupt Decay

//Wish Package
LANDS
Karakas
Dark Depths
Thespian's Stage
Ghost Quarter
CREATURES
Ramunap Excavator
Tireless Tracker
Sylvan Safekeeper
Reclamation Sage
Faerie Macabre


in short, while it was neat to have access to the toolbox, i won't be sticking with the deck. overall density of combo is lower, and the life loss from probe (especially against my numerous DRS-toting opponents) shaved critical turns off the games. i also didn't see a window once where wishing for a creature was desirable—my matchups were:

RG Lands (L 2-1): my friend and car mate on the 2.5 h trip down from Canada…who took a T8 berth once again. he had a pretty nuts G1 2x Exploration, 2x Diamond, Loam hand…
Aluren (W 2-1), (you can see my G3 here https://www.twitch.tv/videos/178698993?t=01h43m11s)
Jund (W 2-0)
4c Delver (L 2-0)
Elves (W 2-1)
Czech Pile (W 2-1)
Burn (L 2-1).

I lost the die roll against Lands (taking mulligans to 5 and 6 after board) and Burn (mulls to 6 in G2, which i won, and 4 in G3, which I lost by 1 turn).

Going forward I'd consider Living Wish as a 2-of in the board as an option against extraction, and make room for Sphere of Resistance, Sylvan Library, & Rite of Consumption

[Elpresidente]

Anyone have an updated list for both bug and bg, or are the front page lists still good?

[caseyc]

Anyone have an updated list for both bug and bg, or are the front page lists still good?

This is a relatively recent one of mine: http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=16546&f=LE

I've dropped the Mishra's factory from the SB in favor of another Decay for all the Blood Moons running around. I've also mixed up the discard suite slightly, and am going to try out 1 Probe and 1 Sorcerous Spyglass this weekend at some SCG Open side events.

[epicthings]

Will be playing turbo depths next weekend at Eternal Weekend and wanted some help with my board.

I sold out of MTGO a while ago and my local meta is pretty strange. I've recently played choke in the board and liked it but unsure if it's necessary. Any critiques or thoughts on cards that could potentially be cut would be appreciated.

Obviously we wanna fade DnT and UW control, curious what some of you have seen on the online meta as well

Creatures:11
3 Sylvan Safekeeper
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Elvish Spirit Guide

Spells:26
4 Lotus Petal
4 Crop Rotation
4 Duress
3 Expedition Map
3 Pithing Needle
4 Thoughtseize
4 Sylvan Scrying

Lands:23
3 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Dark Depths
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs

Sideboard:15
1 Pithing Needle
3 Surgical Extraction
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Sphere of Resistance
2 Sylvan Library
1 Karakas

[DNSolver]

That deck looks great! It's within 1 card of my 4 Sphere sideboard.

UW Control is a much easier matchup with Sylvan Safekeepers and Sylvan Libraries. If they have Stoneforge Mystic, they can be a little more annoying, but it's usually pretty solid. There are no other decks where I would really want Choke - we beat up Delver and 4C control pretty easily already.

[caseyc]

Hi All. A friend and I went down to the SCG Modern Open this weekend to play the Legacy side events to practice for EW this coming weekend. i thought it might be helpful to run through my match-ups to see what I have learned from them--not that I did incredibly well :-)

1st Challenge:

Round 1: Sneak n Show
Game 1: T1 Tseized his Omni, made T2 token and won.
Game 2: T1 Tseized his Blood Moon, then he topdecked another and played it on his T2. I had fetched a basic forest. On my turn I played a land and lotus petal and passed. On his turn he showed in Emrakul. On my turn I drew Decay, played Depths (with no counters), Decayed Blood Moon, triggering Depths, Crop Rotated my Bayou for Karakas, bounced his Emrakul, and killed him on my next turn :-) 1-0

Round 2: Moon Stompy (the version with Chalice, Ensnaring Bridge, PWs)
G1: I had Depths, Stage and two spirit guides and made the token in response to Moon.
G2: I had Depths, Stage and two spirit guides and made the token in response to Moon. :-) 2-0

Round 3: My friend on Lands
This is such an interesting match-up. Usually I feel favored against Lands because most Lands players aren't as experienced in the match-up as I am, and I am on the Rite of Consumption plan. However, my friend is now very well versed in the MU, from having played me a million times, and knows my SB plan. Both games he kept intense GQ/Wasteland/Loam hands and wrecked me. However, what I learned is, post-board, I need to keep a hand with either a Needle or my disruptive SB cards: Surgical, Ground Seal OR Sylvan for card selection plus a Crop Rotation to Bog his first loam. So, lesson learned. This is more important for opponents well-versed in the MU. I think we have enough tricks that the average Lands opponent we can out-maneuver. 2-1.

Round 4: Jeskai Stoneblade
G1: I discard his Swords and kill him pretty quickly.
G2: He is able to drop Blood Moon and present a clock and he gets me.
G3: He is able to slow me down with counter magic and get a batterskull online plus eventually some other things and runs away with it. 2-2

2nd Challenge.

Round 1: BUG Control Lands (aka the Lincoln Baxter Special--this is the deck that got 16th in Vegas. The creator is a local Charlotte player and if you play in the Charlotte area, expect to play against him or one of his teammates who runs this deck)
G1: I was able to present a very fast ML token and kill him before he got disruption online.
G2: I think he got me G2 but I can't remember--it's possible I actually got it in 2.
G2 or 3: I have another fairly fast token and sneak past his Strix with Steppe. 1-0

Round 2: I can't remember but I won. 2-0

Round 3: Death n Taxes. Ugh. My least favorite match-up :-(
G1: He gets a combination of Wasteland, Karakas, and revoker out and beats me down with a batterskull before I can deal with his disruption.
G2: I am able to Needle Wasteland, GQ Karakas, discard his STP, and get him with a token.
G3: This is an interesting game where I perhaps misjudge my line of play. I have Rite of Consumption in hand along with a hexmage. I have hexmage, depths, and a couple other lands in play. I can kill him on the next turn if I activate hexmage and Rite him. On my end step, he activates vial on 2. I pause for a while and consider if I should use hexmage to negate his vial rather than get revokered. I figure I can activate with stage rather than hexmage next turn and still rite him if I draw a land, (and if it's not a revoker I'm in the clear anyways) so I let it resolve. It is revoker. He untaps and Needles Stage :-( I lose. 2-1

Round 4: BUG Delver
G1: I got confused and thought he was the Death's Shadow player so I make a T2 token on my turn to play around wasteland. He untaps and plays Lilliana. He's actually the guy on BUG Delver. This teaches me to not try to know what everyone in a small event is on, because that doesn't apply in larger events anyways and sometimes you get it horribly wrong anyways :-) I am able to claw my way back and present the token, despite a Lilly ult. He then topdecks wasteland, and wastelands depths pre-lilly use. His next topdeck is Surgical. Boo.

G2: I get him with discard plus quick token.

G3: Lilly plus wasteland plus Hymn gets me again. BUG delver continues to be the toughest delver matchup in my experience. They just have a lot more powerful interaction and there is a lot to play around. One of the biggest questions is: when do we play out our depths? In our hand it can get Hymned, on the board it can get Wastelanded. Discard seems super important in this matchup I think. 2-2.

Also on Saturday met Thoughtsauce, another Depths player and nice guy. Was disappointed we didn't get to play, as I really do need more practice in the mirror.

Challenge #3:

Round 1: My friend on Lands again.
G1: He just gets me in a situation I can't win from including GQ, Wasteland, and presenting his own combo.
G2: Very grindy but I end up getting him with Rite of Consumption.
G3: I keep a great hand to build toward a Rite kill, including a Sylvan library, fetches, tutors, and a needle. I end up taking over the game by Surgicaling Wasteland, Needling GQ, and playing Ground Seal. Then set up a Rite kill. 1-0

Round 2: Food Chain
Both games I combo him quickly, with some discard/needle disruption as well. 2-0

Round 3: Jeskai Stoneblade (same guy I played before)
I forget the details but I think it goes to 3 games. Between Batterskull, permission, STP, and blood moon--he is able to lock me out of games and close them out quick. I learn that this is a MU to be respected. I think I need to practice it more to figure out the correct lines and what kind of things to prioritize. Feedback appreciated. 2-1

Round 4: Miracles / UW Control
G1: I concede after he has an active Jace for a few turns, a hand full of business, and I haven't drawn much useful.
G2: I thoughtseize him on turn 3 and see STP, a couple cantrips, and Leyline of Sanctity. I take the Leyline (because I am going to Rite him)--he scoffs then dies to Rite a couple turns later powered by Boseiju.
G3: He keeps a hand with double Leyline as pre-game effects (now I can't win via Rite as I only have one Krosan Grip). Ugh. Turn 1 I attempt to Thoughtseize him (like a fool) and, in the confusion/embarassment of doing so, think that since I put it on the stack, I have to Thoughtseize myself (which I later learn is not true). I lose two life and discard Rite. This ends up biting me in the ass when he is able to exactsies me the turn before I kill him. :-( 2-2

Challenge #4:

Round 1: Moon Stompy (same guy as before)
G1: I get mooned out.
G2: He Chalices on 0 and 1, Blood Moons, Magus, 2x Ensnaring Bridge, then starts clocking me with Chandra. I kill a magus and blood moon and make a 20/20. I keep shuffling off Sylvan Library and never see a Rite the whole game! I die. This is a rough matchup. However, post board I think we want Rites and Sylvan and Decays/Grips. Rite makes us not have to worry about the Bridges and just focus on the moon effects. 0-1

Round 2: Weird Modern Wheel and Deal Storm
G1: He turn 3s me somehow. (Liliana's Caress was involved...)
G2: I turn 3 him.
G3: I turn 3 him. 1-1

Round 3: Deadguy ale
G1: I discard his StP and kill him pretty quickly, using Steppe to get around Lingering Souls tokens.
G2: I needle wasteland, discard his Vindicate, and kill him with Rite while he has 4 flying blockers and 2 StP in hand (Rite is great!) 2-1

Round 4: Bomberman
G1: I get wrecked on turn 2 by the combo.
G2: I kill him on turn 3, disrupting him with discard.
G3: I use a couple discard spells to keep him on the back foot and combo him. 3-1

Overall I didn't do great (9-7 record). But it was valuable practice for EW. Especially my games against Moon Stompy, Stoneblade, and Lands which I expect to see. And BUG delver as well. I definitely could use some suggestions on those match-ups. Lands I think I have under control--but the others I am still learning to navigate. Also, Day 1 I tried out 1x Probe, 1x Sorcerous Spyglass. The probe was great, but the Spyglass just never seemed well-timed enough to be better than a Needle. Day 2 I went to 2 Probes and no Spyglass and loved it. Probing is a great way to get a little extra info on what lines to play--however, I definitely only want to see 1 per game and they make mulligan decisions harder. So I think 1 or 2 is the right number. I think I will play at least 1 for EW. Thoughts and feedback welcome :-)

[Swordfish]

I need help building budget manabase.

I have following lands available:

1x Bayou
4x Windswept Heath
4x Llanowar Wastes
4x Blooming Marsh
4x Overgrown Tomb


Would you just substitute 2x Bayou for 2x Overgrown Tomb and Catacombs for Heath, resulting in a little more painful and less moon-proof manabase? Or would you just replace missing Bayous with Blooming Marshes? Or maybe go completely fetchless with 4x Blooming Marsh and 3x Llanowar Wastes?

I'm kinda lost so I'd appreciate any insights.

[caseyc]

I need help building budget manabase.

I have following lands available:

1x Bayou
4x Windswept Heath
4x Llanowar Wastes
4x Blooming Marsh
4x Overgrown Tomb


Would you just substitute 2x Bayou for 2x Overgrown Tomb and Catacombs for Heath, resulting in a little more painful and less moon-proof manabase? Or would you just replace missing Bayous with Blooming Marshes? Or maybe go completely fetchless with 4x Blooming Marsh and 3x Llanowar Wastes?

I'm kinda lost so I'd appreciate any insights.

I think playing around Blood Moon is pretty important right now. I'd go with the fetches--running green-based fetches is better as most of the time you fetch a basic it will be the forest.

[solnox]

I dont think you need to max out on green fetches. The deck plays ESG so you have more fast green sources that you can tutor for the forest or swamp if under a moon. Id probably like a split of 2 tomb, 1 bayou, 6 Fetches/mix of GB depending on your meta. Fetch swamp thoughtseize happens somewhat often.

Haven't really played the deck much lately since I bandwagonned onto Czech Pile

[Bam Bam]

Hello depths fam, i've been brewing around a more lands-y based version that's been good so far in my testing. Only took it to an fnm once so far, went 2-2 losing to tes and dnt (they had multiples of every answer). Won against belcher (!!) and dark lands. It's not optimal yet, so I wanna ask for some suggestions on card choices. Here's deck list -


3x Bayou
1x Bojuka bog
1x Cabal pit
4x Dark depths
1x Forest
2x Ghost quarter
3x Maze of ith
1x Swamp
4x Thespian's stage
1x Tranquil thicket
3x Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
4x Verdant catacombs
4x Wasteland


4x Exploration

3x Mox diamond

3x Abrupt decay
4x Crop rotation
1x Entomb
1x Word of command

3x Duress
4x Life from the loam
1x Raven's crime
4x Thoughtseize


SB
1x Glacial chasm
1x Karakas
4x Tireless tracker
1x Chalice of the void
4x Sphere of resistance
1x Abrupt decay
2x Surgical extraction
1x Toxic deluge


My goal was to be able to naturally combo 'fast', but still have options of grinding out a longer game.
A couple notes, mox diamond would be 4 but I don't have a 4th, and with the price spike i'm looking for a decent deal on one.
I don't own a tabernacle yet, but am working towards one!
word of command is more of a pet card, but have had some pretty sweet scenarios with it, including using dnt opponent's karakas to plow his own flickerwisp eot then making lage. This would probably be my first cut though.
The SB is also a work in progress.

Vampire hexmage has been a card i've took in and out. I can see this list going either way. My meta is pretty diverse since a lot of the players play multiple decks on any given day.

[Thoughtsauce]

Played two 5-round trials at Eternal Weekend and went 3-1-1 twice (splitting the 5th each time), I'll share match report later if there's interest!

[DNSolver]

I'm ready for someone at EW to win the whole thing again. Good luck, everybody. Me and Negator will be watching you...

[hymnyou]

8-2-1 at EW. ID'ed last match way too tired. 11 fucking rounds.

[ComplexPants]

Started strong with a 4-1, then and a string of losses and ended 7-4.

However, I did see a a good deal of Depths players and even played the mirror(wish version) as my final match.

And I concur with Hymn. 11 function rounds. It was also nice meeting you Hymn and CaseyC.


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[ComplexPants]

Btw, we are now almost 3% of the meta.

http://www.cardtitan.com/coverage2


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[jdmdave]

What list were you guys on? Chinese legacy championship is coming up and I think the meta is ripe for this.