[Primer] R/G Lands

[TLK]

I seem to have a miserable time against 4c Loam. Deathrite is bad enough, but an active Knight just feels unbeatable. Anyone have any luck against this?

[OldSpellMaster]

I seem to have a miserable time against 4c Loam. Deathrite is bad enough, but an active Knight just feels unbeatable. Anyone have any luck against this?

I have problems too. It seems my Deck is afraid of DRS so I don't draw the PF or EE or Vortex when needed. Or they go to the grave (Loam, Gamble, counters or whatever) and are eaten by DRS. Normally, a second DRS hits the table soon and a missing Grove leads to more problems.
Against the knight, you need to have the PF as well plus a Bog.
So from my side, I would need help too...

[Crimhead]

It seems my Deck is afraid of DRS so I don't draw the PF or EE or Vortex when needed. Or they go to the grave (Loam, Gamble, counters or whatever) and are eaten by DRS.

DRS can't eat EE; which is probably our best answer for KotR.

[TLK]

I’ve considered splashing a Bayou for Abrupt Decay in the side, as it kills Knight and has many other applications as well. Anyone try this?

[OldSpellMaster]

DRS can't eat EE; which is probably our best answer for KotR.

Yes, but here you need Academy Ruins plus {u} to get it back.
TW is a good tutor for EE, but too slow against DRS, so no option.
Yes EE is a good answer but still the same: I seem to draw it when I don't need it and I need it when I don't draw it (or it is in the grave). If EE IS in the grave, normally I don't have AR ready. So crop rotate into it, have blue mana, wait a turn to draw it...normally this is not how you want to spend your turns. Or am I mistaken and I should exactelly do this?

[Ingo]

4c Loam is quite vulnerable to Marit Lage, the downside to Chalice 1 is no main plow . An active Kotr ruins the combo though.

[OldSpellMaster]

4c Loam is quite vulnerable to Marit Lage, the downside to Chalice 1 is no main plow . An active Kotr ruins the combo though.

Well, a fast Marit Lage is almost always a good thing.

[Ingo]

Well, a fast Marit Lage is almost always a good thing.

True, but I don't mean you should only rely on a lucky opener with exploration into T2 Marit Lage. But that this matchup justifies to be more focussed on a comboaxis (like cropping for a Tomb for a T3 token, as KOTR becomes active on T4 without acceleration).

[Crimhead]

.
If EE IS in the grave, normally I don't have AR ready. So crop rotate into it, have blue mana, wait a turn to draw it...normally this is not how you want to spend your turns. Or am I mistaken and I should exactly do this?

Playing AR and EE means you are playing a slower, control game more often. DRS decks aren't exactly killing us quickly, so take your time and grind them into the dirt.

Not to say tutoring for AR is always the right play. But with DRS in play, blue mana available, and EE in the yard, you should certainly consider it an option.

TW is a good tutor for EE, but too slow against DRS, so no option.

What's your hurry?
Everybody says TW is too slow, but have you actually tested that yourself? I swear by it (and I believe there was a TW list that top8'd a big event in the last ~6 months.

3 mana is not that hard for us - especially when the target card is often free to play. The slowness factor comes from double-blue, which we don't always see early. What you get for that is a tutor that's immune to counter-spells (including Chalice), prelate, discard, finds EE or CotV, and that can be loamed back for inevitability. I run 2 copy's and 2 Trops.

[Crimhead]

I’ve considered splashing a Bayou for Abrupt Decay in the side, as it kills Knight and has many other applications as well. Anyone try this?

I assume you are familiar with the Jund lists developed by David Long and co. during the SDT era?

As for just a splash, I used to run a single Bayou only for AD in the boards and to bolster EE. I have trouble finding space for this now because I like running Vortex and thus need extra Taigas/Thickets for the red man's.

[OldSpellMaster]

...
What's your hurry?
Everybody says TW is too slow, but have you actually tested that yourself? I swear by it.
3 mana is not that hard for us - especially when the target card is often free to play. The slowness factor comes from double-blue, which we don't always see early. What you get for that is a tutor that's immune to counter-spells (including Chalice), prelate, discard, finds EE or CotV, and that can be loamed back for inevitability. I run 2 copy's and 2 Trops.

Yes I tested it, liked it and had the feeling I was one of the last ones here telling that TW is great. I still play it(paper) but got rid of it in MTGO (where I do my training and experiments now; haven't played paper for some time...), where I encounter lots of DRS. Maybe that was a mistake. I somehow forgot how to longplay and getting nervous when DRS hits the table.

Thanks for your words. I hope it helps to calm me down again and do the right play...

[dimignon]

Hi guys,

I will play a tournamente here in Brasil and I am thinking in this list:



Maindeck

Wasteland x 4
Thespian's Stage x 4
Dark Depths x 3
Grove of the Burnwillows x 4
Maze of Ith x 3
Rishadan Port x 2
Ghost Quarter x 3
Taiga x 2
Misty Rainforest x 1
Wooded Foothills x 1
Windswept Heath x 1
Tranquil Thicket x 1
Shelterd Thicket x 1
Barbarian Ring x 1
Glacial Chasm x 1
Karakas x 1
The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale x 1
Forest x 1

Mox Diamond x 4
Exploration x 4
Crop Rotation x 4
Gamble x 4
Life from the Loam x 4
Punishing Fire x 4
Molten Vortex x 1
Sylvan Library x 1

Sideboard

Sphere of Resistance x 4
Krosan Grip x 3
Ancient Grudge x 1
Kozilek's Return x 2
Ancient Tomb x 1
Trinisphere x 1
Tireless Tracker x 2
Bojuka Bog x 1

I do not have Drop of Honey and Kozilek's Return is great against Prelate and other decks like delvers, elfos, goblins.

Any thoughts on this list?

[Dice_Box]

I would personally cut Library for Bog and then add a Tracker.

[kravkenov]

Any thoughts on this list?

As Dice_Box said, I would also definitely cut this Sylvan Library, and then moving Bojuka from the sideboard to the main deck, with another Tracker in Side.
Another thing is Rishadan Port. I think it is a card you want to play in multiple because you want it early in game to disrupt opponent mana. Drawing as a top deck on mid-late game is horrible. So IMO, 4 is the right number. With 4 Punishing Fire, a Vortex and a Barbarian Ring, you can easily shave a Maze of ith and a Ghost Quater to play 4 Rishadan Port (or a 3/3 split with Ghost Quarter).

[dimignon]

As Dice_Box said, I would also definitely cut this Sylvan Library, and then moving Bojuka from the sideboard to the main deck, with another Tracker in Side.
Another thing is Rishadan Port. I think it is a card you want to play in multiple because you want it early in game to disrupt opponent mana. Drawing as a top deck on mid-late game is horrible. So IMO, 4 is the right number. With 4 Punishing Fire, a Vortex and a Barbarian Ring, you can easily shave a Maze of ith and a Ghost Quater to play 4 Rishadan Port (or a 3/3 split with Ghost Quarter).

Do you think Sylvan Library is not a good card on the deck? He is substituting manabond for truth. And we can "draw 3 cards" with any damage, with 2 loam in the grave, or 2 with a loam in the grave.

I put Bojuka Bog in side because in main deck it was not being very productive. But I always play in maindeck.

A split 3/3 with Ghost anda Rishadan I like. Maibe if I cut a Maze and replace for de 3 Rishadan, or I can play with 2 Maze 4 Rishadan and 2 Ghost.

[kravkenov]

Do you think Sylvan Library is not a good card on the deck?

No it's not a good card. It's a good card if your deck plan is to go longer, grindy, and you want to add some value to your draw.
In this deck, we want to put pressure fast by either mana-disrupt our opponent (waste, loam, port, all of these card are dedicated to that goal), or by putting high pressure on the field with Lage. Sylvan do not help any of these plan and will actually slow you down.

Plus, as a one-of, do you relie on luck to draw it or do you really will gamble for it while you could Gamble for missing combo piece or mana-disrupt lock ?

I can play with 2 Maze 4 Rishadan and 2 Ghost.

This is IMO the best configuration.

[dimignon]

No it's not a good card. It's a good card if your deck plan is to go longer, grindy, and you want to add some value to your draw.
In this deck, we want to put pressure fast by either mana-disrupt our opponent (waste, loam, port, all of these card are dedicated to that goal), or by putting high pressure on the field with Lage. Sylvan do not help any of these plan and will actually slow you down.

Plus, as a one-of, do you relie on luck to draw it or do you really will gamble for it while you could Gamble for missing combo piece or mana-disrupt lock ?


This is IMO the best configuration.

Good explanation. I think I will take out Library and put Bojuka Main, and go for 2 maze 4 rishadan and 2 ghost. And I will have a slot in sideboard. Any other suggestion?

[Dice_Box]

Tracker number 3 or Combo hate number 6.

[Ingo]

No it's not a good card. It's a good card if your deck plan is to go longer, grindy, and you want to add some value to your draw.
In this deck, we want to put pressure fast by either mana-disrupt our opponent (waste, loam, port, all of these card are dedicated to that goal), or by putting high pressure on the field with Lage. Sylvan do not help any of these plan and will actually slow you down.

Plus, as a one-of, do you relie on luck to draw it or do you really will gamble for it while you could Gamble for missing combo piece or mana-disrupt lock ?


This is IMO the best configuration.

I like playing 1, and consider it loam#5. It's downside is that it can get countered and doesnt provide instant value. But when it sticks, its pretty amazing as it synergises great with loam, dredging away bad cards viewed with library. And synergises with Marit Lage as a plowed token stands for 5 draws. Postboard its pretty good as you suddenly have 3 times as much chances of drawing into Kgrips, spheres etc, so I deft wouldnt call it a bad card. It makes dredging a lot more compliated though.

[Wiktul]

"What's the play" type of question:

You're on the play against an opponent with FoWs. You have Mox, Exploration, Sphere of Resistance, Wooded Foothills, Grove, Thespian and Depths.

What's your plan? Would you like to slow him down first or accelerate as fast as possible? Would you play right away what you consider more important, or would you rather play the "less" important thing first, to bait his potential FoW? What would you pitch for Mox and why?