Personally in my local environment, there are a large number of unfair decks. Once a Jace is resolved and then keeping +2, the game is nearly over. Therefore it can be a way to improve BUG Delver's solution towards unfair decks. But yes, "A 4 mana threats is countered by a 1 mana trick" is ridiculous and make me upset. (There are really not too much Czech Pile in my environment. They are all destroyed by unfair players. LOL)
Unless the environment become fair decks' leading, I would still prefer to sideboard Jace at least one(I'm considering 2 in SB now actually)
Originally Posted by Absolutflipz
I've always thought Jace was good in the grindy matchups and NOT against the unfair decks. T3 at best off a Deathrite (while also not using a daze along the way) I don't think is ever doing anything against BR Reanimator, most likely not Sneak and Show, mayyybe against a very slow Storm hand, and obviously not against real degenerate stuff like Moon Stompy or Belcher/Dredge.
Does it somehow not work out like this in practice and you're able to land Jace T3-4 against these unfair decks and you're actually in a good position? I could kind of see it if you've previously Hymn'ed or Thoughtseized, but keeping Jace in against the unfair decks seems counter-intuitive to me.
I'm interested to hear people's actual experiences, though.
Well, JTMS seems not to be a great tool vs Lands. Good luck resolving a four mana spell while you're costantly under Port activations and / or Wasteland - GQ recursion. Moreover, you can't unleash its full potential (-1 ability is pretty useless against an EOT Marit Lage).
TEAM MtG Berlin
"Dredge isn't a deck, it's public masturbation with graveyard triggers."
Well, with fetchlands and DRS it certainly can be done. I remember Liliana being pretty sick against Marit Lage because they're in a weird position: Do they make the 20/20 on their turn and risk a liliana or do they wait until our turn, but risk us finding another wasteland? You can also force them to make the 20/20 by wastelanding their depths and the play the Lili afterwards.
Now I'm talking about Lili here and not Jace, they're the same though in that they kill a Lage with their minus-effect. I think the fact that she doesn't die to Pyroblast and the fact that she's cheaper makes her a much better additional angle of attack against fair decks since soo many of them play Pyroblast (Czech Pile, Grixis, Miracles).
I have the same issues with Jace that you do. The way I deal with it is overloading on blue threats. Between 2 Jace, 2 TNN (I have them in the board and like 2 Tombstalker better in the main) and then delver it can tax their red blasts enough. Not having DRS to effect the snap -> red blast feels really bad though. A resolved Jace is just so powerful that I personally think he is worth the pain a 1 mana counter/kill spell brings to us. Plus he is just a house in the mirror.
I agree in regards to JTMS' power level outweighing the risk to Pyroblast/REB, which remains frustratingly effective against us. I've been testing a single Hydroblast (in the sb obviously), and am considering a second copy. Most notably, Hydroblast/BEB is useful against the decks that are giving me trouble, which are blood moon (including stoneblade), degenerate pile kommand decks, and burn.
I apologize if this has been covered, I switched from Reanimator, to maverick, then Junk/Jund, and finally to BUG delver. I think this is my deck. It seems to have game against just about everything. I was wondering if anyone could share some insight regarding the Dragon Stompy matchup?
MTGO: Cucaracha_GiganteCurrently Playing:Maverick. D&T.Reanimator.
BURN.
Top 8'd the monthly local undefeated in swiss with the following:
Land (20)
2x Bayou
1x Tropical Island
4x Underground Sea
3x Misty Rainforest
3x Polluted Delta
3x Verdant Catacombs
4x Wasteland
Creature (16)
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Delver of Secrets
3x Tarmogoyf
3x Leovold, Emissary of Trest
2x Tombstalker
Sorcery (8)
4x Ponder
4x Hymn to Tourach
Instant (16)
4x Brainstorm
4x Fatal Push
4x Daze
4x Force of Will
Sideboard (15)
2x Flusterstorm
1x Hydroblast
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Thoughtseize
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Diabolic Edict
1x Golgari Charm
2x Liliana, the Last Hope
1x Toxic Deluge
-----
Maxing out on Leovold was an experiment that played out very well for me.
Rd 1 (W 2-1) - UR Delver - Won Game 1 with Tombstalker dominating the board stabilizing at 7 life. Lost game 2 relatively quickly to a Young Pyro that made way more tokens than I could handle. Game 3 came down to surviving 3 turns at 3 Life while goyf went to town, very close, gg Flusterstorm.
Rd 2 (W 2-1) - UW Standstill Miracles - Lost Game 1 to a resolved Jace after multiple Swords + Snapcaster. Game 2 I win off back-to-back Tombstalkers that he can't find another answer for. Game 3 showed the power of turn 2 Leovold with Force backup really shutting off their cantrips and taking over the game with a 2nd copy after the first was Terminus'd away.
Rd 3 (W 2-0) - Food Chain - Not particularly memorable games as I had timely FoWs/Decay for Food Chain never allowing my opponent to do anything 'broken'. I was able to maintain DRS superiority in both games and grind my opponent out with a faster clock.
Rd 4 (W 2-0) - Storm - Game 1 turn 2 Leovold basically locks my opponent out. Game 2 was much more interactive with Duress and Therapy from my opponent. I was able to eventually stick Leovold and beat down. He was able to Decay Leovold on my end step for a 1-turn window to go off but Brainstorm found Flusterstorm to shut him out of the match.
Rd 5 - ID into 1st place
T8 (L 0-2) - Grixis Control - G1 mull to 5 and my t1 DRS dies to bolt; I die quickly to an unchecked YP. Game 2 I barely play magic as my opponent resolves 3 Cabal Therapy with a T1 probe to completely demolish my entire hand which included Liliana and Toxic Deluge. I die quickly to YP + Zombie Fish.
----
Very happy with Leovold and a higher density of both threats and blue cards for FoW. Tombstalker was great, as usual.
Congrats on the top 8, and with an interesting list no less.
I'm curious about how integral Delvers were in your matches or towards your overall record. With so many midgame threats, would you think to play -4 Delver, +1 land +2 JTMS +1 Snap (for example) and just play a control route? Or is Delver just that efficient a threat that you always want them?
I've found in general that dropping Delver ends up lowering my overall win percentage. I think you want a proactive turn 1 threat regardless. The only other option I would consider in these colors is using Noble Hierarch to power out TNN/Leo/Jace a turn early.
Hey, y'all. I'm strongly considering playing BUG Delver in an upcoming Team Unified tournament. I figure that it's a slight favorite against Grixis Delver, which I anticipate being the most-represented blue deck; it has Hymn for the combo matchups (although Hymn might be too slow against Belcher); Tarmogoyf is a better threat than Pyromancer against Eldrazi (which I expect); and it has Abrupt Decay for any Chalice or Blood Moon shenanigans. Plus I think my Elves matchup is better than Grixis because I have access to Golgari Charms out of the sideboard. Expecting a faster metagame with less grinding, I'm thinking about registering this list and would love feedback on it:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Tarmogoyf
2 Tombstalker
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Fatal Push
1 Dismember
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Hymn to Tourach
1 Spell Pierce
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland
// sideboard //
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Flusterstorm
2 Duress
1 Pithing Needle
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Golgari Charm
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Snapcaster Mage
Some notes about choices:
- One of my teammates is on BR Reanimator, so I can't play Thoughtseize in the sideboard, hence the Duresses.
- Snapcaster comes in when Tombstalkers are bad so I have another piece of disruption and a body. Plus it's blue and can pitch to Force in the combo matchups.
- The maindeck Spell Pierce is a hedge against game 1 combo (which there should be a fair bit of). It replaces the 20th land because I'm not running Jace.
- No Library and no Jace is just a meta call. I feel like they'll be too slow against fast combo, Eldrazi, and Stompy.
- The Dismember instead of the second Fatal Push is for Eldrazi mostly, but I can be convinced that the second Push is better. There can only be one Deathrite player per team, so I'd rather have removal that can kill a more diverse suite of threats. I'm also considering playing Dead Weight instead of the Fatal Push so that my BR Reanimator teammate could have Pushes if he wants them.
- The card I'm least sure about is the maindeck Liliana of the Veil. My thinking is that combo and "big threat" decks will be more prevalent than grindy decks, so in theory Lili 1.0 should be better maindeck. But maybe I don't want that effect at all and would prefer a second Leovold or something. I'd have to go back to my sideboard maps and see if that would radically affect any of my plans.
- The second Flusterstorm might be better as either a second Spell Pierce or something like Hydroblast, but I'm not sure.
I'm open to any and all feedback.
Thanks!
Hey guys,
What is the sideboarding strat for Czech Pile, using HJ's list from EW for reference?
Cheers
I would personally just focus 100% on controlling the board and expect a long, grindy game:
-4 Daze
-4 FoW
-2 Decay
+2 Jace
+1 Spell Pierce
+2 Surgical (exiling USea or Jace can be game winning)
+1 Loam
+2 Thoughtseize
+2 Toxic Deluge (killing multiple strixes + snapcaster is where u want to be)
Jace is the real card which you can't beat which is why I love Leovold so much in this shell, but with HJs list you can hopefully keep the board clear of strixes and keep applying pressure.
I agree that You should expect To Face a long, grindy game, But i guess You should Not forget your aggressor role in The matchup. The advantage You have by playing TA is that You have a better late game in comparison To other delver decks, But You also have a couple of back-breaking opening Moves ( Which imply The use of free counterspells ) that You should Not preclude.
That being Said, those are My boarding plans Vs 4c:
Otp:
-4 Force of Will
+2 jace, The mind sculptor
+1 spell Pierce
+1 Life from The loam
Otd:
-2 daze
- 3 Force of Will
+2 jace, The mind sculptor
+1 Life from The loam
+1 Spell Pierce
+1 abrupt decay
Since we already have access To Liliana, The Last Hope in our mainboard, we don't need other ways To Deal with x-1 critters like strixes or snapcasters ( Who have already performed their Main role if They could touch The battlefield anyway ).
Regarding surgical in grindy matchups,that card is simply bad, since You can't reliably Take advantage with that or, To Say It better, There isn't a key card To exile above any other .
My cc2 cents
Inviato dal mio SM-A300FU utilizzando Tapatalk
Totally reasonable keep Daze in over cards like Thoughtseize/Surgical. Can I ask why you'd want to bring in more Abrupt Decay vs Pile?
In My Last post i wrote abrupt decay, but even dismember would be fine- And, depending on The context , it could Be even better- since it's another cc1 removal spell for answering opposing shamans or singleton fatties like tasigur or gurmag. By The Way, i opted for this choice since You still need ways To Deal with your opponent's threats (be it shaman, leovold,lilianas or strixes when you're starting To beat him down), especially when You are on The draw And you shouldn't let your opponent go too far with his/Her gameplan.
Inviato dal mio SM-A300FU utilizzando Tapatalk
Hello all,
Dunno if this has been asked already but here it goes:
Do you guys leave the hymns against reanimator in games 2 and 3? It feels so bad when you givem them a free entomb but it feels great when you hit reanimation spells... So, what do you do, leave them or ship them?
Thanks
I sometimes leave in 1 or 2, but if I have cards in my SB that I'd rather have, they can all go. It is a dangerous card here, but it can be useful in the right situation. If you do keep it in, I'd be careful about when I fire it off.
Hey guys, I am getting ready for SCG Philly and trying to put together my sideboard plan. I haven't played BUG Delver in a tournament since last summer, so I want to make sure I'm coming in with a solid gameplan. The deck that worries me the most right now is D&T. It was very popular last week and put up good results.
Right now I am considering the following for my sideboard:
2x Thoughtseize
1x Jace
2x Flusterstorm
1x Pithing Needle
1x Golgari Charm
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Liliana, the last hope
1x Toxic Deluge
2x Diabolic Edict
1x Dread of Night
1x Hydroblast
My mainboard is standard for the most part, but I am running 2x Leovold, 1x Tombstalker, 1x LoTV, and 1x Sylvan Library.
In each match-up I generally know what I want to bring in from the SB, but have had a tough time deciding what to cut.
The most popular decks now appear to be: Grixis Delver, 4c control, D&T (with red variants). I'm curious how people would approach sideboarding for these matches.
My current thoughts for D&T:
IN: Pithing Needle, Toxic Deluge, Dread of Night, Edict x2, Last Hope, Golgari Charm
Out: 4x Force on the play, 4x daze on the draw. Maybe tombstalker because of RIP - but I'm not sure of the other cuts.
Grixis Delver:
In: Golgari Charm, Diabolic Edict, Last Hope, Deluge, Flusterstorm x2
Out: 4x Force on the play (on the draw 2 and 2 daze), Hymn, Sylvan Library
4c control:
In: 2x Flusterstorm, Last Hope, Jace
Out: 4x Force
Sneak and Show:
In: 2x Diabolic Edict, 2x Flusterstorm, 2x Surgical, 2x Thoughtseize, 1x Pithing Needle
Out: 3x Fatal Push, 2x Abrupt Decay, 1x Tombstalker, 1x LoTV - and I need 2 more cuts
Elves:
In: 2x Thoughtseize, 1x Pithing Needle, 1x Toxic Deluge, 2x Surgical
Out: 4x Delver, 1x LoTV, need 1 more cut
Any input or feedback is very appreciated.
Thanks!
I'm surprised you aren't boarding in Hydroblast vs Sneak (Blood Moon / Sneak Attack) or Pile (K-Command). I do really like Fluster vs Pile though: resolving that 3-mana instant, or 5-mana with Snapcaster, is manageable for us with Wasteland and Fluster.
I find that I cut some of my countermagic against Elves. Post-board, they bring in some level of disruption and go for a beatdown game with creatures. I wouldn't bring in Surgical, but wraths and removal. Last Hope is really good here in my experience.
Elves - Agree that Daze is pretty bad, and when I'm cutting threats it's definitely Goyf with all their chump blockers and shenanigans.
Sneak n Show - You can cut some Goyf here as well and I also like Hydroblast.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote