All B/R update speculation.

[H]

Is slippery slope overplayed?

It's a slippery slope. Yeah, if Delver was green then RUG would continue as is. But it's blue. So for other decks, now you have an easier time moving your splash around. And the trend is more and more cards that you had to splash for previously are ending up less and less off-color for blue decks. I mean, if Delver was red, then yes, RUG would be all good. But then what else would be good? Burn? Zoo? We can't really know.

Regarding green's "identity", I wasn't saying it IS the creature color and shouldn't be good at anything else. It's definitely the direction you get if you every read those color wheel inserts you get with precon decks. I like Veil of Summer, I think it's an interesting space to explore. Is it too powerful? Maybe, but it still signals a shift in thinking what colors can have access to. Green was 100% the creature color of Canadian Thresh, so in the specific frame of my point, they ability to drop the color and not suffer any real hardships putting out repeatable damage is really the telling sign of the times.

Well, I mean, I agree, but we can make sort of counter-factual cases until the cows come home, haha. The simplest answer is that if things were different, things would be different. But majorly different? That is much harder to say.

What really happens though is that Blue needs to be playable, in theory, in other formats. So, what we get to do is leverage Blue's historic advantages with it's current and future advantages. That means that it is vastly harder for any colors to top that, since the weight of the historic advantage is pretty big (mistakes are somewhat cumulative).

If you want to have a separate discussion about what green's color identity SHOULD be I'll be there :D

Well, I did, 6 years ago,

[PirateKing]

Well, I did, 6 years ago,

I was there as well! haha we're old :|

[Zombie]

Well, I definitely agreed with everything you said, up to this part here. Especially when you got to the critique of Green.

While I do agree, in a sort of "isolation" case, that Green is the "Creature color" I think that is partly misleading. In fact, depending on the context, the case could be made that White is the "creature color." I've actually brought this up elsewhere in the Forum, in times past, about Green's identity in this regard. We tend to think of Green as that "creature color" because it, often, has few other relevant uses. Tangentially, it removes Artifacts, or Enchantments (but White can do that), or single edge-cases of utility, like Choke. What else is left, but it's Creatures?

As a partial aside, this is likely why there is so much distaste for Veil, in addition to just it's power-level.

There's a reason this card:



has been one of my favourite green cards since it was printed: The color has two sides, one for woodsmen and beasts and other fighty things, but the other is for spiritual, learned folk and their magic. Which to WotC seems to mostly mean mana. They've thankfully started printing more green CA spells, but green CA is inevitably designed to be card type based and self-terminating - a green CA card is never allowed to hit another one of its kind. Why? It's the color of growth and learning, and a neverending truck of raw CA should be right up green's alley. It should be a color for sorcery-speed raw draw. May even the color of sorcery-speed raw draw, let blue be the tricky bastard.

[Mr. Safety]

I remember when Regal Force was the mother-fucking SHIT and Garruk Wildspeaker was the uncontested best planeswalker in the game. Green being awesome is nothing new, it's just been awhile.

[H]

It should be a color for sorcery-speed raw draw. May even the color of sorcery-speed raw draw, let blue be the tricky bastard.

Well, in Legacy (and Vintage to a lesser extent) we actually do still get this, in Sylvan Library.

Of course, my over-flatting of Green's contemporary Legacy "role" was over-flat. But still, in general, if you are including Green in your deck, it is usually for Creatures. That can be proved false as an absolute rule (12 Post, Lands, etc.) but I think it still holds generally. Even in those cases, say, of 12 Post, where Green creatures aren't necessarily run, Green still has a "traditional" role of Ramp and/or Land Tutoring. Or, in the case of Lands, Ramp/Land recursion.

[Michael Keller]

I haven’t been this interested in a BR announcement in a long time.

[sdematt]

I haven’t been this interested in a BR announcement in a long time.

Remind me when it is? For an old man who doesn't play as much as he used to.

-Matt

[Michael Keller]

Remind me when it is? For an old man who doesn't play as much as he used to.

-Matt

The 9th. I have a sneaking suspicion the house is about get cleaned, with some oldies coming back.

[H]

Remind me when it is? For an old man who doesn't play as much as he used to.

-Matt

Don't worry, there isn't a set schedule any more. It is all at Wizards "discretion." So, right now the next is indeed on the 9th, and then who knows.

I'm not sure I buy anything changing for Legacy, but it doesn't seem impossible by any stretch of the imagination.

[Wrath of Pie]

Update is probably for Pioneer given how that format has gone.

[Seymour_Asses]

Remind me when it is? For an old man who doesn't play as much as he used to.

-Matt

Well, see, we have these things called "Magic Cards" and they're printed on a material that we call "Card Board". This is a "Board" that we throw "Cards" at until one of them sticks and then we print it onto a potato chip.

You're welcome.

[jmlima]

The 9th. I have a sneaking suspicion the house is about get cleaned, with some oldies coming back.

Free Splinter Twin!

ah, sorry, wrong format.

Free Deathrite Shaman!

[jmlima]

Well, see, we have these things called "Magic Cards" and they're printed on a material that we call "Card Board". This is a "Board" that we throw "Cards" at until one of them sticks and then we print it onto a potato chip.

You're welcome.

What's these 'Cards' you mention? Are they the same as 'Carps'?

[Wrath of Pie]

Well, see, we have these things called "Magic Cards" and they're printed on a material that we call "Card Board". This is a "Board" that we throw "Cards" at until one of them sticks and then we print it onto a potato chip.

You're welcome.

I look forward to potato chips being banned, they are way too good in the snack metagame.

[Michael Keller]

Don't worry, there isn't a set schedule any more. It is all at Wizards "discretion." So, right now the next is indeed on the 9th, and then who knows.

I'm not sure I buy anything changing for Legacy, but it doesn't seem impossible by any stretch of the imagination.

After all this crap, you don't buy ANYTHING being banned in Legacy? They probably came together and put this announcement together BECAUSE of Legacy.

[Seymour_Asses]

What's these 'Cards' you mention? Are they the same as 'Carps'?

Sometimes, but we call them "Merfolk" these days.

[Seymour_Asses]

I look forward to potato chips being banned, they are way too good in the snack metagame.

Yeah me too but I'm not liking the look of the popcorn meta that will surely follow.

[Michael Keller]

I just don't think Astrolabe is ban-worthy. I mean, at best it fixes colors and replaces itself. It does make color-filtering easier, and multi-color mana bases smoother, but I just have a hard time seeing a card that doesn't really do anything getting banned. It replaces itself and color-fixes, that's it. Poor design? Sure. But nowhere even remotely as bad as DRS, and at least this card makes it easier for newer players to play without investing early on into duals.

[FTW]

I just don't think Astrolabe is ban-worthy. I mean, at best it fixes colors and replaces itself. It does make color-filtering easier, and multi-color mana bases smoother, but I just have a hard time seeing a card that doesn't really do anything getting banned.

Gitaxian Probe

[Fox]

I just don't think Astrolabe is ban-worthy. I mean, at best it fixes colors and replaces itself. It does make color-filtering easier, and multi-color mana bases smoother, but I just have a hard time seeing a card that doesn't really do anything getting banned. It replaces itself and color-fixes, that's it. Poor design? Sure. But nowhere even remotely as bad as DRS, and at least this card makes it easier for newer players to play without investing early on into duals.

DRS was a far weaker turn 1 against Moon Stompy (and other Chalice decks) than Astrolabe into Oko. The 3/3s kill where a DRS couldn't. While DRS was on an absurd power level, it was ultimately a good policeman which had more weaknesses than Oko/Astro (i.e. it created more interaction and counterplay). Oko on the other hand is a negative force in the format. Astrolabe, in a world where Oko is banned, would have a far lesser effect on the format. Astrolabe [sans-Oko] would have to be played with intention, which returns it to the baseline of being an ultimately positive actor in the format.
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On the b&r coming up, I would find it really hard to believe that modern can continue to justify their Summer Bloom ban when Uro exists.