I agree. I think this is very fair.
Just remove the one illegal card and play a 3CB deck, or just ignore the nonfunctional card and have a 3CB deck. Keeping what does work out of the submission is better than trying to do substitutions or just disqualifying.
I'm glad we're trying to establish a consistent rule we can apply each time.
Having the Forces changed to Islands doesn't change my results but may leave them with more than 0 points, which I think is more fair.
Good point. I had that too and completely forgot about it, and was fine with playing with a dead land that doesn't even produce mana.
So if my napkin math is right, we are now at 7 in favour of the above idea, and none against or neutral.
Looks like I'll be adding this to our tournament rules shortly, and the FoW players can start thinking about which basic they would like to play, which is hilariously silly in this particular round.![]()
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What about in situations where if you swap all the cards with basic lands the deck is still illegal (you drew the Canadians OTD for example).
I assume that would be a loss?
Huh, yeah, I didn't quite realize how fast your deck really was. But lets see. (I just realized that in all my other analyis, I keep forgetting to play additional Swamps, but I don't think it mattered in any of them.)
H T1: LED, LED, play a Swamp, crack both Diamonds and cast FUtF [X=5], [H=25], shuffle, Library would be Emrakul, LED, LED, FUtF.
R T1: Play Forest, Exporation, play Mountain.
H T2: Draw Emrakul, play a Swamp, attack with all 5 Zombies [R=10].
R T2: Play Mountain, play Azusa, play Valakut, play a Mountain, play a Mountain. No triggers yet as [M=4].
H T3: Draw LED, play a Swamp. Attack with all 5 Zombies. Azusa can block one [R=2].
R T3: Play Mountain, play a Mountain, one trigger, play Mountain, so two triggers total. So, you can kill two tokens, but that isn't enough to stop me from dealing lethal.
When I am on the Draw though:
R T1: Play Forest, Exporation, play Mountain.
H T1: LED, LED, play a Swamp, crack both Diamonds and cast FUtF [X=5], [H=25], shuffle, Library would be Emrakul, LED, LED, FUtF.
R T2: Play Mountain, play Azusa, play Valakut, play a Mountain, play a Mountain. No triggers yet as [M=4].
H T2: Draw Emrakul, play a Swamp, attack with all 5 Zombies, Azusa blocks one [R=12].
R T3: Play Mountain, play a Mountain, one trigger, play Mountain, two triggers total killing two Zombies.
H T3: Draw LED, play a Swamp. Attack with 3 Zombies, one gets blocked [R=8]
R T4: Three Mountains, three Triggers remove all the Zombies, so yeah, I definitely lose here.
Looks like it should be 3-3?
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
I agree with the result but all the analysis seems wrong since the land drop numbers don’t make sense (4 lands per turn if asuza is alive, or 2 if she is not, on t3 & t4 instead of the mentioned 3)
Last edited by Reeplcheep; 02-12-2021 at 08:08 AM.
Azusa, Lost But Seeking is a 1/2. If she blocks a zombie token, she will die and then R loses 2 land drops per turn.
It changes the math a bit but not the outcome.
Still 3-3
Reeplcheep for the next ones you could play this one if you want It changes almost nothing but you would have won this one ;)
Assuming the swap from Force of Will to Island, there are still a few discrepancies to resolve.
Silk has 3-3, dte has 4-1. Can silk win OTP?
Edit: I agree with dte
If silk plays T1 Shocker, T1 Fiend takes PtE
Shocker attacks. 1/1 Fiend trades with 1/1 Shocker, returning PtE
Reality Acid combo prevents Changle from ever being cast and they draw.
dte and Serguei first agreed, but dte might have a draw OTP?
Edit: I agree with dte
OTP playing Fiend before Stylus removes Force. Then Stylus resolves and tucks the Fiend
Sergeui plays a Plains and holds up StP
dte draws Fiend again and plays it again. In response to triggers, Stylus activates to tuck Fiend, and Sergeui responds with StP. Fiend is exiled for good, but Fiend still exiles a card from hand for good: FoN
With FoN permanently gone, Reality Acid combo destroys the lands so no threats can resolve.
I agree with that by rethinking that match. So 4 points instead of 6
Nevertheless, if we switch Fow to island it think it changes also the result against alphastryk as he has not anymore Fow to protect his dack against my griffin
But it is very hard to determine my hand and what is the worse card I can draw. Because the Worst card I drawn during a turn might be the Best the turn after
I did not check my results against island instead of FoW. i'll do it tomorrow.
Beacon of Destruction is a problem for you, and I don't think you ever get to Ulamog mana before Beacon kills you.
EDIT: You can try to save Force of Negation for Beacon (hardcasting it, of course), and Dack Fayden never makes you discard it (you discard Swords/Ulamog or Misthollow/Ulamog), but you still never get to Ulamog mana unless you Force Land Equilibrium, and then Beacon kills you after that, so you don't. You also can never actually cast Misthollow Griffin for a similar reason. Looks like draws all around.
Last edited by Wrath of Pie; 02-13-2021 at 08:49 PM.
Again with islands:
9. alphastryk: Island, Dack Fayden, Beacon of Destruction, Land Equilibrium
Without being able to force my enablers you can't really do anything. Kozilek doesn't care about dack. 6-0
10. maxx!: Mistcutter Hydra, Misthollow Griffin, Food Chain, Islandl
I have a t3 kozilek and t4 kill with just valakut. OTD I can humorously chump hydra with kozilek and the valakut you to death, OTP its worse for you.
6-0.
I was thinking just cast griffin and kill dack with it. And later be able to Fon q beacon. Because I can always play FoN even with equilibrium in play.
When he would try to kill griffin before i finish dack I cannot have neither FoN nor STP in hand to protect griffin
Last edited by Serguei; 02-14-2021 at 03:14 AM.
Many here, me including, still need to redo our calculations for the matches that have changed because of the new rule for illegal cards. Please also check your scores in the Google spreadsheet. That helps me a lot. I'll post standings when all results are in, but before that, we can already open submissions for round 5.
ROUND 5 OF SEASON 9: DEVIANT LEGACY - PART 2 has started.
This round we play The Coin: When you are on the draw, you begin the game with a Lotus Petal artifact token in play. No additional bannings.
I have PM'ed myself my deck for round 5, so you can start sending me your decks.
DEADLINE: Wednesday the 17th of February at 11:00AM Central European Time.
(That's my time zone. Pacific Time it'll probably be something like Tuesday night a bit past midnight, so keep that in mind.)
PLEASE NOTE:
The way you send your deck to me matters. Please send it in the way described below, so it doesn't cost me an hour of editing before I can post all the decks.
Please send your deck as follows: Swamp, Swamp, Dauthi Slayer, Black Knight.
So with card tags around each card, and not above eachother, and with your Username and 4CB S09R05 in the topic.
Don't forget to keep an eye on the banned list. You'll find it in the second post of the thread, on in our Google Spreadsheet.
After the deadline has passed, I will post all decks on the forum here, and you can start puzzling out your scores.
If you have any questions, please read the first two posts of this thread first. If you can't find the answer there, drop a message here. We'll answer a.s.a.p.
Also, if you've been lurking on this thread and looking to join, you can step in anytime, any round. That's no problem at all. Just send me your deck before the deadline, and I'll add you to the competition.
Happy deck designing everybody!![]()
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If he leads with Land Equilibrium @ 4 lands, and then you cast Griffin, then he can play a fifth land and sorcery-speed Beacon on his turn to avoid both FoN and Swords because you are tapped out. alphastyrk can then cast Dack the next turn, and if you FoN Dack then Beacon kills you, but if you don't eventually you are forced to discard FoN and Beacon kills you anyways, so you never actually cast Griffin in the first place. This also means that alphastryk can never safely play the fifth land until you cast Misthollow Griffin, so you just stare.
That's hilarious. He has T4 haste 200/200 OTP, faster than your clock, but yes Kozilek makes an excellent recurring chump blocker every turn.
Let's look at this in detail.
Serguei vs alphastryk OTP:
T1 S: Plains
T1 A: Island
T2 S: Island
T2 A: Island
T3 S: Island
T3 A: Mountain. Dack Fayden +1: Discard Ulamog and StP. Library = StP, Ulamog [Dack=4]
T4 S: Draw StP. Island. Misthollow Griffin
T4 A: Mountain. Land Equilibrium. Dack +1: Draw Ulamog, discard Ulamog & StP. Library = StP, Ulamog. [Dack=5]
T5 S: Draw StP. Can't play more lands. Hold up WUUU. Attack Dack with Griffin. [Dack=2]
T5 A: Island. Dack +1: Draw Ulamog, discard Ulamog & StP. Library = StP, Ulamog. [Dack=3]
T6 S: Draw StP. Attack Dack with Griffin.
If A Beacons Griffin -> S hardcasts FoN, exiling Beacon forever. Dack dies. Griffin kills A
If A doesn't -> Dack dies. S keeps holding up FoN mana for Beacon. Griffin kills A
Sergeui wins!
The key here is that OTP Serguei gets to untap with Griffin and hold up 1UU before Beacon is live. Dack can never take FoN out of hand
OTD is harder. Griffin is a turn slower and vulnerable to Beacon right away while tapped out.
--------------------
Serguei vs alphastryk OTD:
T1 A: Island
T1 S: Plains
T2 A: Island
T2 S: Island
T3 A: Mountain. Dack Fayden +1: Discard Ulamog and StP. Library = StP, Ulamog [Dack=4]
T3 S: Draw StP. Island
T4 A: Mountain. Land Equilibrium. Dack +1: Draw Ulamog, discard Ulamog & StP. Library = StP, Ulamog. [Dack=5]
T4 S: Draw StP. Island. Do not play Griffin
The problem here is if S taps out for Griffin, A hits 5 mana and Beacons it. S is tapped out and cannot respond with FoN or StP, so Griffin dies. Then A simply does not activate Dack again so the Griffin would never reshuffle and S has no win condition. S can do no better than draw that way. S can try to play around this by waiting to play Griffin with StP mana up if A ramps to 5 for Beacon (otherwise A has no threat either).
If A tries to play for the win with a 5th land drop...
T5 A: Mountain. Dack +1: Draw Ulamog, discard Ulamog & StP. Library = Ulamog, StP. [Dack=6] (Now StP is better because it protects Griffin)
T5 S: Draw Ulamog. Plains. Pass.
(A cannot Beacon @ S on either turn because FoN is up with 1UU)
T6 A: Dack +1: Draw StP, discard Ulamog & FoN. Library = Ulamog, FoN. [Dack=7]
(If Dack is not used, S will draw StP next turn either way, but this lets 1 Beacon get in without FoN)
T6 S: Draw Ulamog. Griffin. Pass with Plains & StP open. EOT Beacon @ S. [S=15]
(If Beacon on Griffin, StP sends Griffin to exile and counters Beacon, stopping reshuffle)
T7 A: Draw Beacon. Dack +1: Draw Ulamog, discard Ulamog & FoN. Library = Ulamog, FoN. [Dack=8] (keep StP to protect Griffin while tapped out)
T7 S: Untap all lands. Draw Ulamog. Attack Dack with Griffin. EOT Beacon @ S. [S=10, Dack=5]
(If Beacon on Griffin, StP stops it again)
T8 A: Draw Beacon.
Now A has no winning lines.
1) Activate Dack: S would just get FoN in hand with mana open, and Beacon is now dead. Bad line. S wins.
2) Beacon @ Griffin: S StPs Griffin. Griffin goes to exile, Beacon is countered and does not reshuffle. S replays Griffin and wins.
3) Beacon @ S: S goes to 5 life, then untaps and draws FoN and Dack can't remove it. Beacon never resolves again. S wins.
4) Do nothing: S draws FoN. Now FoN nullifies the Beacon. Worse than other lines.
All of these lead to S winning.
If A does not play the 5th land, attempting to draw
T5 A: Dack +1: Draw Ulamog, discard Ulamog & FoN. Library = Ulamog, FoN. [Dack=6]
T5 S: Draw Ulamog. Griffin. Untapped Plains, sacrificing a tapped land, holding up StP
Because Land Equilibrium lets him sacrifice a tapped land to play an untapped Plains, he can still hold up StP to protect Griffin even restricted to 4 lands. Then the same thing happens. StP protects Griffin from Beacon long enough until S reaches a state with untapped lands and FoN in hand.
S wins both?
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