Rooster always post on the other side of the clock :/
I'm not sure what advice this is giving, but the lists are coming up in ~25 minutes.Originally Posted by dte
4CB Foor/Ceiling Season Entry Form and the google sheet for scores.
No real advice here, I ground that deciding to post or wait is tough as an organizer, with no good solution.
Or maybe it is: either wait 12h or no need to wait.
Okay, here we go.
Season 14: Round 6 Lists
1. silkster: Forest, Acererak the Archlich, Memory Lapse, Aluren
2. FourdogsinaHorseSuit: Words of Wilding, Words of Worship, Hall of Heliod's Generosity, SaltCrusted Steppe
3. dte: Khalni Garden, Hangarback Walker, Mana Leak, Cabal Therapy
4. Asthereal: Cabal Therapy, Cathar Commando, Miscast, Young Wolf
5. Reeplcheep: Oko, Thief of Crowns, Imp’s Mischief, Grief, Malakir Rebirth
6. Symbi: Show and Tell, Memory Lapse, Progenitus, Island
7. Wrath of Pie: Mistveil Plains, Razortide Bridge, Raise the Alarm, Delay
8. Dooey: Piracy Charm, Isochron Scepter, Sol Ring, Selesnya Charm
9. FTW: Forbidden Orchard, Mana Clash, Sudden Substitution, Cabal Therapy
10. GoblinSmashmaster: Enthusiastic Mechanaut, Conjurer's Bauble, Conjurer's Bauble, Chatterstorm
Hashed entry: Lair of the Hydra, Acererak the Archlich, Memory Lapse, Aluren, let's go exploring!
4CB Foor/Ceiling Season Entry Form and the google sheet for scores.
1. silkster: Forest, Acererak the Archlich, Memory Lapse, Aluren
This is me doing my best impression of the Swift Reconfiguration deck. I actually forgot about Aluren in previous weeks, which is funny cause one of my first kitchen table decks was Aluren + Recycle.
2. FourdogsinaHorseSuit: Words of Wilding, Words of Worship, Hall of Heliod's Generosity, SaltCrusted Steppe WW
3. dte: Khalni Garden, Hangarback Walker, Mana Leak, Cabal Therapy WL
4. Asthereal: Cabal Therapy, Cathar Commando, Miscast, Young Wolf LL
Cathar Commando is brutal!
5. Reeplcheep: Oko, Thief of Crowns, Imp’s Mischief, Grief, Malakir Rebirth WL
I can't quite defend from Grief + Mischief. Oko was on my list of eventual win conditions, but he felt just a bit slow and I didn't think of putting it together this way.
6. Symbi: Show and Tell, Memory Lapse, Progenitus, Island WW
7. Wrath of Pie: Mistveil Plains, Razortide Bridge, Raise the Alarm, Delay WW
Infinite Delay is really cute. Possibly too cute, though.
8. Dooey: Piracy Charm, Isochron Scepter, Sol Ring, Selesnya Charm DL
On the play, You need to spend both charms to not die. If only Acererak has less power! Not an interaction I was expecting.
9. FTW: Forbidden Orchard, Mana Clash, Sudden Substitution, Cabal Therapy WL
I love that this is a deck. How beatiful and stupid at the same time!
10. GoblinSmashmaster: Enthusiastic Mechanaut, Conjurer's Bauble, Conjurer's Bauble, Chatterstorm WW
I definitely appreciate the goblin.
11W, 1D, 6L, for 34 points.
4CB Foor/Ceiling Season Entry Form and the google sheet for scores.
This is definitely a pro for having random effects work against their owner.
My deck is a Cabal therapy deck, built to win OTP, but weak OTD.
1. silkster: Forest, Acererak the Archlich, Memory Lapse, Aluren
3-3
3
2. FourdogsinaHorseSuit: Words of Wilding, Words of Worship, Hall of Heliod's Generosity, SaltCrusted Steppe
3-3 tentatively?
Complicated maths:/
OTP I therapy windings, and make a 1/1 walker.
You play hall, bring winding back on top.
2/2
Draw winding, play it into leak
3/3
1 counter --->too many turns lost to rebuild mana/counters. If you wait two turns though?
I cannot do the maths tonight.
OTD you resolves Wow and win from there.
6
3. dte: Khalni Garden, Hangarback Walker, Mana Leak, Cabal Therapy
Me, 3-3ing
4. Asthereal: Cabal Therapy, Cathar Commando, Miscast, Young Wolf
3-3
9
5. Reeplcheep: Oko, Thief of Crowns, Imp’s Mischief, Grief, Malakir Rebirth
3-3
12
6. Symbi: Show and Tell, Memory Lapse, Progenitus, Island
3-3
15
7. Wrath of Pie: Mistveil Plains, Razortide Bridge, Raise the Alarm, Delay
6-0, might be wrong.
Complicated maths, but I think I WW because you cannot cast your second raise before T4, while I start with a 2/2 walker.
21
8. Dooey: Piracy Charm, Isochron Scepter, Sol Ring, Selesnya Charm
3-3 I guess.
24
9. FTW: Forbidden Orchard, Mana Clash, Sudden Substitution, Cabal Therapy
3-3 again, but quite a beauty you made here!
27
10. GoblinSmashmaster: Enthusiastic Mechanaut, Conjurer's Bauble, Conjurer's Bauble, Chatterstorm
6-0. Leak on the enthusiastic goblin!
33
2 MUs are complicated, rest is easy Cabal 3-3.
I would have said the exact contrary :)
5. Reeplcheep: Oko, Thief of Crowns, Imp’s Mischief, Grief, Malakir Rebirth
I didn’t want to have to think about layers with tabernacle and Leyline of singularity so I waited on oko until now.
1. silkster: Forest, Acererak the Archlich, Memory Lapse, Aluren
Combo vs discard. WL 3-3
2. FourdogsinaHorseSuit: Words of Wilding, Words of Worship, Hall of Heliod's Generosity, SaltCrusted Steppe
You have more value but a bunch of 2/2s match poorly into 3/2 menace and 3/3s. Words of Worship is pretty bad against oko. OTP I strip both your cards and it takes you too long to rebuild. OTD I believe I outpace your 2/2s but I’m not sure.
WW 6-0
3. dte: Khalni Garden, Hangarback Walker, Mana Leak, Cabal Therapy
Cabal therapy names a card upon resolution, so you cast hangerback for X=1 before therapy. This beats my hardcast grief.
WL 3-3
4. Asthereal: Cabal Therapy, Cathar Commando, Miscast, Young Wolf
OTP take your miscast then your young wolf, trade grief with commando and win with oko. OTD you run out your threats before you cast therapy. WL 3-3
6. Symbi: Show and Tell, Memory Lapse, Progenitus, Island
Combo vs Discard. WL 3-3
7. Wrath of Pie: Mistveil Plains, Razortide Bridge, Raise the Alarm, Delay
I grief pitching rebirth. You delay. Oko stabilizes well against the 2 1/1s l, and then when my grief comes back I push it through the 2nd delay with mischief. This lets me elk your land and trade with my elemental to shut down the recursion. WW 6-0
8. Dooey: Piracy Charm, Isochron Scepter, Sol Ring, Selesnya Charm
Another 2/2 factory. OTP evoke grief, keeping mischief for piracy forces you to make a 2/2. Oko beats a 2/2. OTD elking the sceptre lets you kill oko, so I make a food and play my land tapped. 2nd turn I make an elk and an elemental vs another 2/2. Attacking doesn’t seem profitable so you can wait.
Oko, being bullshit, can then elk the sceptre. 3/3 and 3 2/2s against 3/2 and 3/3 can’t kill a PW at 6 loyalty. WW 6-0
9. FTW: Forbidden Orchard, Mana Clash, Sudden Substitution, Cabal Therapy
Very cool, I had a slightly different version of this deck. Discard vs Combo. WL 3-3
10. GoblinSmashmaster: Enthusiastic Mechanaut, Conjurer's Bauble, Conjurer's Bauble, Chatterstorm
Discard vs Combo, unfortunately nothing I can retarget the baubles to. WL 3-3
12 W 0D 6 L for 36/54
Every four turns one of these cycles can happen:
You make an elk, and yoink a bear while I make 3 other bears. Don't do this plan because it means over time I get 3 bodies every time you make 2 and I'll have 10 more bears than you have blockers. If you attack with your 3/xs and 2/2s I will trade 1 for 1 my bears for yours and double block any Elk. Which means all your Elk die but I keep a third of my bears.
You make two elks and I make four bears. Don't do this plan, because I'll have 10 more bears than you have blockers. It also means you can't attack because every 3/X you send into a pair of 2/2s will be an equal trade in favor of da bears.
Which means both paths lead to bears everywhere.
9. FTW: Forbidden Orchard, Mana Clash, Sudden Substitution, Cabal Therapy
Tribute to Backbuild season!
Edit: Got too cute. Combo does not work. Unlike Pacts, opponent can fizzle Mana Clash by failing to reselect a "target opponent".
Should have just played Aluren+Therapy instead.
1. silkster: OTP Therapy. If it resolves, I name Acerarak and win with a 1/1 token, so you must cast Memory Lapse. Unfortunately Acerarak goes back to owner's hand, so stealing it with Sudden Sub does not disrupt the combo. LL 0-6
2. FourdogsinaHorseSuit: I can Therapy, Sudden Sub to get a 1/1, then flashback Therapy. Unfortunately you have Heliod to get back everything. LL 0-6
3. dte: OTP Therapy. If you Mana Leak, I can pay 3 and take Hangarback or Mana Clash + Sudden Sub to get a 1/1 and flashback Therapy to take Hangarback. OTD Therapyx2 stops me. DL 1-4
4. Asthereal: OTP Therapy. If it resolves, I name Young Wolf, then I Sudden Sub + Mana Clash to get a 1/1 and trade with the 3/1. If you counter with Miscast, I can pay the 3 and lose to the 3/1 or I can make a 1/1 blocker but lose to Wolf. LL 0-6
5. Reeplcheep: OTP Sudden Sub + Clash to make a 1/1. Then Therapy. You can Imp's Mischief to redirect it at me, but then I can flashback Therapy to take Oko and you lack black to cast Grief. If you don't cast Imp's Mischief, 1st Therapy takes Oko, then I flashback. You have the same problem. You can Imp's Mischief but then not cast Grief, or let Therapy resolve and I take Grief. OTD your discard wins. DL 1-4
6. Symbi: OTP Therapy. You Memory Lapse, preventing flashback, so you can go off. Progenitus can't be stolen. LL 0-6
7. Wrath of Pie: OTP Therapy. You Raise the Alarm in response. I can Sudden Sub & steal a white token, turning off Mistveil, but you have 2 1/1s to my 1 1/1 so you can win. LL 0-6
8. Dooey: OTP Therapy. If you use both Charms in response, you get a 2/2 and I discard Mana Clash, then I Sudden Sub to swap Therapy for your 2/2 knight. 2/2 > 1/1 = win!! If you don't cast Selesnya Charm, Therapy names it and you can't win, but then I can't steal a 1/1 either so we draw.
OTD you can make your Scepter first and make too many 2/2s. DL 1-4
10. GoblinSmashmaster: OTP Therapy naming Bauble. You can still cast Goblin and make 2 Squirrels, but then I Sudden Sub to steal the flying 2/2 and hold off your 3 1/1s. OTD I lose to 10000 squirrels. DL 1-4
[strikeout]42 points (14 wins, 4 loss)[/strikeout]
4 points (4 draws, 14 loss)
Last edited by FTW; 11-30-2022 at 01:50 PM.
8. Dooey: Piracy Charm, Isochron Scepter, Sol Ring, Selesnya Charm
1. silkster: Forest, Acererak the Archlich, Memory Lapse, Aluren
WD, 4 points.
2. FourdogsinaHorseSuit: Words of Wilding, Words of Worship, Hall of Heliod's Generosity, SaltCrusted Steppe
Battle of 2/2 factories, but mine has vigilance if you try to race and sometimes +2/+2 and trample if you try to trade. WW, 10 points.
3. dte: Khalni Garden, Hangarback Walker, Mana Leak, Cabal Therapy
OTP I get my 2/2 factory out with 3 mana to spare, which beats an active walker. OTD I think I can't stop you from. WL, 13 points.
4. Asthereal: Cabal Therapy, Cathar Commando, Miscast, Young Wolf
OTP I get scepter with selesnya out and you need to commando it or lose, and I still get a 2/2 out of it, which stares at or trades with the wolf once it's a 2/2. OTD You can therapy me and I have to cast my stuff in response. I can make a 2/2, but that only trades with one of your threats. DL, 14 points.
5. Reeplcheep: Oko, Thief of Crowns, Imp’s Mischief, Grief, Malakir Rebirth
Agree with you when you are on the play, I can't beat oko. When I'm on the play, don't forget the +2/+2 mode of selesnya charm and +2/-1 mode of piracy charm. If you don't evoke grief to take piracy charm t1, I can double pump my 2/2 and kill oko from 6 loyalty. If you do evoke grief, I can put oko to 2 loyalty on my t2, you make food into elk, I swing at oko again and pump, and either kill oko, or kill your 3/3 while keeping my 2/2 around. WL, 17 points.
6. Symbi: Show and Tell, Memory Lapse, Progenitus, Island
I can't stop progenitus. LL, 17 points.
7. Wrath of Pie: Mistveil Plains, Razortide Bridge, Raise the Alarm, Delay
I lead sol ring scepter. If you delay either of these, I can piracy charm one of your 1/1s leaving you unable to recur, and outrace your remaining 1/1 with a 2/2. If you let scepter resolve, I imprint selesnya charm and pump out 2/2s. Even though we both make 2/2 worth of stats per turn, mine have vigilance and I can use the +2/+2 and trample mode, outracing you.
WW, 23 points
8. Dooey: Piracy Charm, Isochron Scepter, Sol Ring, Selesnya Charm
It me, 23 points.
9. FTW: Forbidden Orchard, Mana Clash, Sudden Substitution, Cabal Therapy
I can't interact with your combo. LL, 23 points.
10. GoblinSmashmaster: Enthusiastic Mechanaut, Conjurer's Bauble, Conjurer's Bauble, Chatterstorm
I don't think I have a line where I can interrupt the loop since you can pick up chatterstorm with the last bauble if i make you discard it. LL, 23 points.
Asthereal's scores for round 6:
1. silkster: Forest, Acererak the Archlich, Memory Lapse, Aluren WW
Ooh that's lucky! My fancy fourth card actually wins me a match.
2. FourdogsinaHorseSuit: Words of Wilding, Words of Worship, Hall of Heliod's Generosity, SaltCrusted Steppe WL, if my math is correct.
LOL aaand you have the Hall so you get back the enchantment stuff so yeah. But OTP I might be able to race.
OTP: Wolf, Therapy both enchantments, cast Commando, keep U open. You play Hall, use WU to retrieve Wilding. Attack for 5. You play Steppe, tick up one with R. Use Hall plus GB to cast Wilding. Attack for 5 (10). Use U and sac Command to destroy Wilding. You tick up one. I attack (8). You retrieve Wilding. I attack (6). You tick up one. I attack (4). You tick up one. I attack (2). You cast Wilding. I kill you?
OTD you cast all your stuff and I just die as your life gain is faster and gains you unlimited time to get back Wilding as often as needed.
3. dte: Khalni Garden, Hangarback Walker, Mana Leak, Cabal Therapy WL
Whoever gets to do their thing first wins easily.
4. Asthereal: Cabal Therapy, Cathar Commando, Miscast, Young Wolf <-me
Commando felt a little too techy, but I wanted an extra threat in the correct colour options, and this one might save me OTD against enchantment or artifact combos. I went backa nd forth between Commando and Containment Priest, and Commando felt like more complete card despite the fact that needing the extra mana can cost me the casting of a card.
5. Reeplcheep: Oko, Thief of Crowns, Imp’s Mischief, Grief, Malakir Rebirth WL
Whoever gets to do their thing first wins easily.
6. Symbi: Show and Tell, Memory Lapse, Progenitus, Island WL
Island so you have counter backup. That works. OTD that is. With me OTP I just Therapy your hand away.
7. Wrath of Pie: Mistveil Plains, Razortide Bridge, Raise the Alarm, Delay LL
Delay is very techy. It makes me unable to flashback or cast Therapy until it's no longer relevant. Also I can't stop your lands. Also, a 1/1 trades nicely with a 3/1.
OTP: Therapy-you Delay-I Miscast-you respond with Raise the Alarm and make two 1/1. I then cast Wolf, Commando. You drop a tapped land. I attack for 4, you take it. You drop second land and put Raise back. And win.
8. Dooey: Piracy Charm, Isochron Scepter, Sol Ring, Selesnya Charm WD
OTP I can eat your hand, so you have to use Charm proactively, but my two threats beat your one. OTD Commando destroys Scepter, but you still get a 2/2 which trades with Wolf for a draw.
9. FTW: Forbidden Orchard, Mana Clash, Sudden Substitution, Cabal Therapy WL // WW
Very cool combo, nicely format specific! OTP I get to eat your hand and win, OTD you go off after stripping me from my Miscast.
EDIT: Or the awesome combo doen't work, as I MAY choose a new target opponent (the original is an illegal target now, as I am not my own opponent), but I can fail/choose not to do so, and the spell will fizzle/get countered due to no legal targets. In which case the deck doesn't work at all, and that makes me sad despite the 3 extra points it might get me.
10. GoblinSmashmaster: Enthusiastic Mechanaut, Conjurer's Bauble, Conjurer's Bauble, Chatterstorm WD
EDIT OTP: I Therapy your Mechanaut and both Baubles, so you can only make one 1/1 and I'll have a 2/2 and a 3/1. OTD: Mechanaut gets killed by Commando in response to casting your first Bauble. You can't recast it after Baubling it back, so you don't do that. I can't stop you from making 5 1/1s, but my 2/2 Wolf wall holds them off.
Total: 29/32 points, depending on whether FTW's deck works and my math in the FourDogs matchup checks out.
I would disagree. I would say this is a fun example of cool things we can do with our current rules.
Last edited by Asthereal; 11-30-2022 at 11:49 AM.
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@Asthereal : OTP vs gob you can get both bauble plus the enthusiastic gob.
You should WD.
If I do that, he Baubles the Gobbo back, casts it, then casts Chatter for 3 and three 1/1s still stare against the 2/2 Wolf.
I can't Miscast, as I'll need the mana to blow up the flyer, or I lose the race.
Though admittedly, while this draws, it is still the better line. So I have to play it.
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Cast cabal, name bauble. Discard both baubles.
Cast wolf, fb therapy, name enthusiastic mechanaut.
You have a 3/1 and a 2/2, and gob starts his turn with only chatterstorm in hand.
WD?
LOL I forgot that one Therapy discards both Baubles. I'm so smart.
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1. silkster: Forest, Acererak the Archlich, Memory Lapse, Aluren
Combo + Counter. LL 0-6, 0 total.
2. FourdogsinaHorseSuit: Words of Wilding, Words of Worship, Hall of Heliod's Generosity, SaltCrusted Steppe
Progenitus just beats this. WW 6-0, 6 total.
3. dte: Khalni Garden, Hangarback Walker, Mana Leak, Cabal Therapy
OTP I make Progenitus. OTD I lose to therapy + counter. WL 3-3, 9 total.
4. Asthereal: Cabal Therapy, Cathar Commando, Miscast, Young Wolf
See above. WL 3-3, 12 total.
5. Reeplcheep: Oko, Thief of Crowns, Imp’s Mischief, Grief, Malakir Rebirth
See above. WL 3-3, 15 total.
6. Symbi: Show and Tell, Memory Lapse, Progenitus, Island
That's me, choosing the wrong threat with show and tell (It should have been Iona).
7. Wrath of Pie: Mistveil Plains, Razortide Bridge, Raise the Alarm, Delay
Progenitus just beats this. WW 6-0, 21 total.
8. Dooey: Piracy Charm, Isochron Scepter, Sol Ring, Selesnya Charm
I can discard memory lapse, then Progenitus beats this. WW 6-0, 27 total.
9. FTW: Forbidden Orchard, Mana Clash, Sudden Substitution, Cabal Therapy
In theory, I lose to the combo, but I don't think it actually works. You give me mana clash with sudden substitution, but it says I may choose a new target. So I don't. Then mana clash says target opponent, so the target is illegal and it fizzles. Then I counter therapy, you can't flash it back as it is in your library, and make progenitus. WW 6-0, 33 total. <-- MAJOR disagreement here.
10. GoblinSmashmaster: Enthusiastic Mechanaut, Conjurer's Bauble, Conjurer's Bauble, Chatterstorm
If you go for the combo, I counter. If I show and tell, you put Mechanaut into play and win. DD 2-2, 35 total.
Interesting...
Is the controller of a spell allowed to not select legal targets to let a spell fizzle, even when legal targets exist?
For example, suppose you Chandra's Triumph my 2/2 Grim Flayer (3 card types) and you have only Rukh Egg. Can I Twincast the Triumph and fail to choose a new target instead of selecting Egg, fizzling my copy (Flayer is illegal target), to get the Delirium 4/4 without giving you a 4/4? Or do I have to select a new legal target if one exists (Egg)?
The idea is that sudden substitution says I may choose a new target, but afaik there is no rule preventing me from just not reselecting a target, even if the original is illegal. In the twincast case the comprehensive rules (707.10c) explicitly state that this is legal.
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