Happy new year everyone!
I'm the last one so I'll start with the disagreements first for visibility. I think some of you underestimated mayor.
I think Goblins get smashed. You OTP.
G1: Make 8 gobs and Flip Erayo. You cannot make only 6 gobs to slowdown Mayor flipping, or you lose Erayo and I resolve Mayor + grist.
d1: maggot (countered), mayor.
G2: attack for 8 (d12)
d2: mayor flip, make 1 wolf (2 3/3).
G3: attack for 6 (d6), lose 2 gobs (6 gobs left)
d3: make a wolf. 3 3/3
G4: attack for 3 (d3), 3 gobs remains.
Afterwards, I stay with my wolves and sadistically watch you die from your Mana Vault.
WW 6-0.
You cannot prevent me to resolve and flip mayor.
OTP or OTD, if you did not make me discard 2, I start with brain maggot. If you let it resolve and its ability as well, I take Charm.
You can answer it by making me discard two, or kill maggot. In any case, I will resolve mayor, and it will flip and get unanswered. It does beat Hexdrinker fairly easily, even with Lutri on the side.
If you do not make me discard two, I also have grist.
WW 6-0.
other MUs:
1. silkster: Brain Maggot, Nimble Obstructionist, Ionize, Subtlety
6-0. I had a few Subtlety variants, but never thought of pairing it with nimble obstructionist. Mostly I used restoration angel and 2* blue 1 drop instants.
6
2. dte: Bayou, Grist, the Hunger Tide, Mayor of Avabruck, brain maggot
me, playing a non synergistic midrange deck featuring some of the best remaining cards.
3. GoblinSmashmaster: Duress, Erayo, Soratami Ascendant, Mana Vault, Empty the Warrens
6-0 per above
12
4. FTW: Brainstorm, Violent Outburst, Restore Balance, Shrieking Affliction
0-6. Ballsy to play no protection T0, and very effective against me. Beautiful design too. I would have loved to see it last round when I was playing eldrazi :)
12
5. Asthereal: Barren Glory, Lotus Petal, Lotus Petal, Duress
3-3.
15
6. Wrath of Pie: Eldrazi Temple, Thought-Knot Seer, Thought-Knot Seer, Spell Pierce
6-0. Both mayor or Grist + maggot win.
21
7. jfb1337: Insist, White Plume Adventurer, You See a Guard Approach, Cathedral of War
6-0. Grist or mayor winst this
27
8. Reeplcheep: Lutri, Funeral Charm, Bojuka Bog, Hexdrinker
6-0 per above
33
Overall pretty good (unless I am wrong with my disagreements), but a bit salty as my other deck would have done full sweep except WD vs WoP :/
Always easier to have the right deck afterwards :)
I also think that is quite interesting. To your previous question about number of rounds I would have answered that I prefer short seasons, but this one seem to renew itself pretty well.
I added another one, which I addressed above.
I had an eye on the others:
if Reep tries to rely on a pumped Hexdrinker:
R OTP: Hexdrinker + grow 4 times + land. Hexdrinker is immune to YSaGA.
jfb, WPA, init.
R attack, c5, attack (j 16). WPA cannot block, 3/3 vs 4/4. R takes the initiative.
jfb attacks (R14), and take the initiative back, making a 5/5 that will untap. R cannot beat that.
If R tries to only threaten the discard:
R land, hexdrinker
Jfb WPA, initiative. No land in case of double discard EoT. EoT, Lutri, keeping B.
R's turn. 2 options:
A If jfb uses YSaGA to tap Lutri, R attacks with hexdrinker, with charm back up. R takes the initiative and 1c on Hex.
jfb plays cathedral, attacks (R16), grows WPA as 5/5.
R: WPA untaps. R attacks with Lutri, if jf blocks, they trade with charm and R will eventually win. So jfb does not block, R take the initiative back and can put 2 counters on hexdrinker. R makes hexdrinker 6/6 (4/4 +2/+2) and win the game.
So jfb cannot cast YSaGA on Lutri.
B, if jfb does not cast YSaGA.
R attacks with only Lutri. no blocks (or charm & trade), R gets the initiative. 1c on hexdrinker.
jfb plays cathedral, attacks (R16), grows WPA as 5/5.
R untap WPA. YSaGA Taps Lutri. R cannot attack with hexdrinker. 2c on hexdrinker.
jfb attacks (R10). Goading is not good as both creatures can kill WPA with charm support next turn. The skeleton is also not so impressive vs charm. So, R5.
R cannot attack with both or loses to the backswing.
R can attack with Lutri, take the initiative and make hexdrinker 6/6. that would be enough to win.
jfb OTP
WPA, initiative. jfb cannot play cathedral now (also no interest) or loses YSaGA to double discard. 2 choices for R: Lutri or not Lutri.
If not Lutri:
R hex, land.
jf upkeep, WPA is 5/5, it attacks (YSaGA prevents ambush viper by Lutri + charm). Hex cannot block. R15.
R, WPA untaps. R put 1c on hex and passes.
---> jfb will win
If Lutri and YSaGA:
R hex, upkeep YSaGA to tap Lutri, land
jf upkeep, WPA is 5/5, Cathedral, WPA attacks, R14.
R, WPA untaps. 1c on hexdrinker. Lutri attacks, take the initiative (not attacking is bad as initiative ticking is better than pumping hexdrinker). j17
jf WPA attacks, R cannot chump with hexdrinker, as WPA 6/6 in attack would beat Lutri 5/4. So WPA is not blocked, R8, R takes 5, R3.
R has to attack or dies to the initiative ticking. Lutri attacks, Hexdrinker becomes 4/3 and 2c.
jf has to attack or dies to the initiative. Hexdrinker can chump and from there Lutri would win.
If Lutri and no YSaGA T1:
R hex, land, Lutri attacks and take the initiative
jf plays cathedral, attacks and take the initiative R16, WPA 5/5
R attacks with Lutri and take the initiative back, Hexdrinker becames 6/6.
R win.
I was so focused on the turn 0 lines, I forgot about your actual creature.
If you play Hex first:
A) I can Brainstorm. You respond with Funeral Charm, hold priority, Lutri. I discard 2. Affliction is too slow to race & Suspend Balance is too slow vs 5 power.
B) I can suspend Balance. Too slow as above.
C) I can Violent Outburst, putting cascade trigger on the stack, then Brainstorm after. That protects one card but lets you discard Balance from my hand.
D) I can play Affliction. That does nothing on its own, so I have to do one of the other lines after.
LL 0-6
Duress takes Grist. Erayo just counters a 1/1. Seems bad. Unfortunately there are no better lines, since Erayo must flip and can't be sandbagged.
I thought the Erayo tech was interesting. If opponent doesn't counter/kill it, then any counter on Mana Vault is the 4th spell and triggers a flip! Unfortunately the flipped Erayo won't trigger to counter that spell. I wonder if GoblinSmashmaster thought it did. That would explain Erayo and be a lot stronger, with Duress + Erayo stopping double counter to protect Vault & Empty. Otherwise Erayo doesn't do much except overkill opponents with only 1 answer.
My plan is to Brain Maggot the Hexdrinker, Ionize the Funeral Charm, and Subtlety the Lutri. Also, I'm a bit embarrassed to say that I didn't think of evoking Subtlety and using Nimble Obstructionist to stifle the sacrifice trigger. That's really cool.
Okay, I think I have the bans sorted out. The only matchup that hasn't either been verified by both players or been verified by me is Mayor of Avabruck vs. Lutri, but Mayor is just so dominant that it really should stop taking my by surprise every season. It looks like 18 cards join the banlist:
Barren Glory
Bayou
Brain Maggot
Brainstorm
Duress
Grist, the Hunger Tide
Ionize
Lotus Petal
Mayor of Avabruck
Nimble Obstructionist
Restore Balance
Shrieking Affliction
Subtlety
Violent Outburst.
4CB Foor/Ceiling Season Entry Form and the google sheet for scores.
ROUND 10 OF SEASON 14: WUBRG is now open.
I have PM'ed myself my deck for round 10, and for fun I made a salted hash at https://emn178.github.io/online-tools/sha256.html which is efc67a1db226729be196aee10f801594566c8093530940d59c79e89459925933
[B]DEADLINE: Tuesday, January 10th at 1:00pm Eastern Standard Time (GMT-5).
PLEASE NOTE:
The way you send your deck to me matters. Please send it in the way described below, so it doesn't cost me an hour of editing before I can post all the decks.
Please send your deck as follows:
silkster: Smoke, Smoke Teller, Smokespew Invoker, Fire-Lit Thicket.
So with name, colon, and card tags around each card, and not above each other, and with your Username and 4CB S14R10 in the topic.
Usually you should keep an eye on the banned list, found in the second post and in the spreadsheet. Remember that the card pool is Vintage minus Unfinity.
After the deadline has passed, I will post all decks on the forum here, and you can start puzzling out your scores.
If you have any questions, please read the first two posts of this thread first. If you can't find the answer there, drop a message here. We'll answer a.s.a.p.
Happy listbuilding!
PHP Code:
name and 4CB S14R10
YOURNAME: [cards]A[/cards], [cards]B[/cards], [cards]C[/cards], [cards]D[/cards].
4CB Foor/Ceiling Season Entry Form and the google sheet for scores.
We got up to 8 total entries just before the deadline, which is what we had last week, so I was going to post, but then one of the entries contained a card that is not vintage legal (only Alchemy and Historic, per both Scryfall and Gatherer). I sent a PM and I plan to wait up to 24 hours since it's a diehard regular. I'll post when I see an update.
4CB Foor/Ceiling Season Entry Form and the google sheet for scores.
Alchemy and Historic are online only. The card has never been physically printed. There are many such cards, and you can see a list of them here https://scryfall.com/search?q=f%3Ahi...s%3Arebalanced
I could probably reveal the card and the player, but somehow it still feel strange. Instead I'll leave you with this list of silly cards that you probably don't need to look through because they're not legal here. I'm guessing that you never saw them because you put f:vintage into all of your scryfall searches. I usually forget to and then I get these annoying rebalanced A- cards at the top of the list, and only then do I remember to put f:vintage, so maybe you never got far enough into a list to see an Alchemy original that isn't just a rebalancing of an already existing card.
4CB Foor/Ceiling Season Entry Form and the google sheet for scores.
Season 14: Round Lists
1. silskter: Minsc & Boo, Timeless Heroes, Countersquall, Ghost Quarter, Chronomaton
2. Asthereal: Funeral Charm, Lupine Prototype, Lutri, the Spellchaser, Quicksand
3. jfb1337: Academy Ruins, Azorious Chancery, Engineered Explosives, Autonomous Assembler
4. Dooey: Greasefang, Okiba Boss, Geier Reach Sanitarium, Parhelion II, Tamiyo's Safekeeping
5. Wrath of Pie: Eldrazi Temple, Thought-Knot Seer, Thought-Knot Seer, Spell Pierce
6. GoblinSmashmaster: Collective Brutality, Basking Rootwalla, Mox Emerald, Empty the Warrens
7. dte: Blooming Marsh, Vex, Assassin's Trophy, Bitterblossom
8. FTW: Unmask, Force of Despair, Prohibit, Hidetsugu Consumes All
Direct link to round 10: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=843950086
Hashed entry: Minsc & Boo, Timeless Heroes, Countersquall, Ghost Quarter, Chronomaton, hamster smash?
4CB Foor/Ceiling Season Entry Form and the google sheet for scores.
8. FTW: Unmask, Force of Despair, Prohibit, Hidetsugu Consumes All
1. silkster: OTP Unmask Minsc and Prohibit the Countersquall. Chrono can block as a 4/4 on my turn 6, while Hidetsugu attacks as a 3/3 on my turn 4, so I race you.
OTD you play Minsc with Ghost Quarter mana, holding up UB. No point in kicking Prohibit. You attack with a 4/4 trample haste. I Unmask Chrono, Hidetsugu kills the hamster, and I Prohibit your counter, but you'll make more hamsters before I flip. WL 3-3
2. Asthereal: OTP you upkeep Funeral Charm and cast Lutri. In response to Lutri ability, I Prohibit Funeral Charm, which also fizzles the Lutri trigger (illegal target). Unmask discards Lupine. 3/3 Hidetsugu stares at Lutri.
OTD you double discard me. I just discard Unmask and Force. Prohibit answers Lupine & Hidetsugu stares at Lutri again. DD 2-2
3. jfb1337: Starting WBURG lets you kill Hidetsugu or at least replay EE before I can exile graveyards. Prohibit's kicker is awkward here. LL 0-6
4. Dooey: Cool deck. OTP Unmask Greasefang. OTD Force of Despair it. I can discard Prohibit to Geier Reach and cast Hidetsugu. WW 6-0
Edit: If you use Tamiyo to protect Greasefang, I counter with Prohibit. You won't have enough mana to use Geier Reach that turn, so Hidetsugu is safe.
5. Wrath of Pie: OTP Unmask a Thought-Knot, Prohibit Spell Pierce, then Hidetsugu. You play 2nd TKS. TKS kills on your turn 5. Hidetsugu can attack as 3/3 on my turn 4. If you don't have a blocker, it can block as a 4/4 by your turn 5. Either you stop attacking and we stare, or you let me get a 4/4 and we trade. Draw.
On your play you cast 1 Thought-Knot. I kick Prohibit, you Spell Pierce. In response to trigger I Force of Despair, killing it, but you exile my last card. Then 2nd TKS wins. DL 1-4
6. GoblinSmashmaster: OTP Unmask Empty, play Hidetsugu, and Prohibit Collective Brutality.
OTD I Prohibit Collective Brutality, let you make 9 1/1s, then cast Hidetsugu. WW 6-0
7. dte: OTP Unmask. Either you Vex or I discard Vex. I play Hidetsugu. You play Bitterblossom. Hidetsugu outpaces Bitterblossom (trample & grow). Prohibit counters Trophy.
OTD you play Bitterblossom off the land, holding up Vex. You would have 3 tokens when Hidetsugu attacks as 3/3 so I can't race. I Prohibit Bitterblossom. You Vex. I Unmask Trophy & wait till Bitterblossom has made 6 tokens (F=5, D=14), then I play Hidetsugu to kill them. When Hidetsugu can attack as 3/3 (F=4, D=11) you have 3 untapped tokens to block and trade. Then you can kill me before Bitterblossom kills you (F=-2, D=7). WL 3-3
21 points (6 wins, 3 draws, 5 loss)
@silkster & Wrath: Interesting. Yeah, those cards never come up on my searches, and I don't play Arena. Didn't know those existed.
Last edited by FTW; 01-11-2023 at 06:27 PM.
1. silskter: Minsc & Boo, Timeless Heroes, Countersquall, Ghost Quarter, Chronomaton
0-6.
0
2. Asthereal: Funeral Charm, Lupine Prototype, Lutri, the Spellchaser, Quicksand
6-0. Counter Lutri, Bitterblossom beats Lupine.
6
3. jfb1337: Academy Ruins, Azorious Chancery, Engineered Explosives, Autonomous Assembler
6-0. I trophy ruins and counter EE. Bitterblossom beats assembler.
12
4. Dooey: Greasefang, Okiba Boss, Geier Reach Sanitarium, Parhelion II, Tamiyo's Safekeeping
6-0. I play bitterblossom and vex the boss.
18
5. Wrath of Pie: Eldrazi Temple, Thought-Knot Seer, Thought-Knot Seer, Spell Pierce
3-3. OTP I play bitterblossom, trophy TKS in response to the trigger, pay for pierce.
21
6. GoblinSmashmaster: Collective Brutality, Basking Rootwalla, Mox Emerald, Empty the Warrens
0-6. Goblins smash!
21
7. dte: Blooming Marsh, Vex, Assassin's Trophy, Bitterblossom
Me, without ideas.
8. FTW: Unmask, Force of Despair, Prohibit, Hidetsugu Consumes All
3-3 as per above.
24
1. silskter: Minsc & Boo, Timeless Heroes, Countersquall, Ghost Quarter, Chronomaton
I think I've already played some win conditions that were much worse than Minsc & Boo.
2. Asthereal: Funeral Charm, Lupine Prototype, Lutri, the Spellchaser, Quicksand
The only card I need is hamster smash.
WW
3. jfb1337: Academy Ruins, Azorious Chancery, Engineered Explosives, Autonomous Assembler
I see that someone came prepared to fight the goblin invasion.
Ghost Quarter and Countersquall line up very well here, leaving the hamster to smash.
WW
4. Dooey: Greasefang, Okiba Boss, Geier Reach Sanitarium, Parhelion II, Tamiyo's Safekeeping
I chose the wrong interaction to fight Greasefang.
LL
5. Wrath of Pie: Eldrazi Temple, Thought-Knot Seer, Thought-Knot Seer, Spell Pierce
Hamster smashes on the play. On the draw, you take M&B, then I Ghost Quarter your land and spend my WUBRG mana growing the Chonomaton into a sufficient blocker. I have the life to get to 5/5, but unfortunately I don't have the mana to get to 20/20.
WD
6. GoblinSmashmaster: Collective Brutality, Basking Rootwalla, Mox Emerald, Empty the Warrens
You get 9 1/1s, then I make a 4/4 and a 1/1. You hit for 8. Then I make a 2/2. You hit for 6, then 4, then 2, though you don't actually need that last 2 because Brutality drained for 2.
I didn't think the play helped me because you can -2/-2 the robot and countering the Brutality just gives you more storm, but then I realized I could just go on the offensive.
On the play I hit you for 4 (20,16), then you make 9 critters and drain me for 2 (18,18).
I attack for 7 (18, 11; chumping is bad and trading is worse because Boo comes back) and make 1/1 Chronomaton. You can't win the race attacking me, so you send 6 at M&B and 3 at me. (15,11; Minsc down).
I attack for 7 (15, 4). You now need to keep at least 5 blockers back. Attacking with some creatures is bad because then I can force the rest to die chump blocking. Eventually the robot grows and attacks safely.
WL
7. dte: Blooming Marsh, Vex, Assassin's Trophy, Bitterblossom
On the play, I lead on land and M&B. You have to Trophy the planeswalker before it can pump the hamster. I Countersquall, you Vex, and then my 1/1 wins because you don't have mana for Bitterblossom.
On the draw, you can't lead on Bitterblossom because then you don't have mana for both Vex and Trophy*. So you play land and pass. I can't play M&B or you Vex(into Csq)+Trophy and then you do have the mana for BB, which beats Chronomaton. If I play land+robot, you Trophy my land, which means I can only ever play one of Countersquall and M&B, so I lose to BB+Vex. Instead, I do nothing and we stare.
WD
*Can you let one pump resolve before Trophying on your turn?
BB; GQ, M&B, (Vex, Csq), attack for 4 (16).
AT on M&B, 1 token (15); attack for 4 (11), Chronomaton-1.
2 tokens (10); attack with both.
Okay, just wanted to make sure.
8. FTW: Unmask, Force of Despair, Prohibit, Hidetsugu Consumes All
I had a bit of a double take when I saw Unmask. I thought it was already banned, but nope. Well found/remembered.
Hamster smashes on the play. On the draw Unmask -> Countersquall -> Prohibit, then Unmask takes M&B. Hidetsugu can kill my robot, but if you lead on Hidetsugu, then my robot grows to 3/3 in time to block and trade.
WD
8W, 3D, 3L.
I should have expected Empty the Warrens, though I'm not sure what I would or could have done about it. After review though, I'm WL instead of LL, which is fine. And the precise version probably matters too, so it's probably not worth trying to guess the exact composition. I definitely didn't see Greasefang coming, though. A couple repeats from previous rounds, but not single card is repeated across decks here.
Why turn 6? I can block as a 1/1 on your turn 2, a 2/2 on turn 3, and a 3/3 on turn 4.
I too forgot about the starting WUBRG mana when looking at EE.
Last edited by silkster; 01-10-2023 at 05:09 PM.
4CB Foor/Ceiling Season Entry Form and the google sheet for scores.
Vs Asthereal:
land, lupine.
If you play Boo, charm kills the token, if you counter it Lutri comes. So better play chronomaton, then Lutri.
From there lupine and Lutri attack and will kill Boo, then race chronomaton?
Vs jfb I am also not completely sure. There are a few lines but maybe jfb has something OTP.
EE for 0, counter or AA will kill M&B. Autonomous assembler with U floating.
Minsk and Boo (no mana to cast chrono).
attack Minsc, Boo blocks. AA is 5/6. Bounce academy and have land
Play chrono, Boo 4/4
attack Minsk, chrono blocks. AA is 6/7
Boo is 7/7
Attack Minsc with a 7/8 AA?
3. jfb1337: Academy Ruins, Azorious Chancery, Engineered Explosives, Autonomous Assembler
1. silskter: Minsc & Boo, Timeless Heroes, Countersquall, Ghost Quarter, Chronomaton
LL - Nice ghost quarter + countersquall
2. Asthereal: Funeral Charm, Lupine Prototype, Lutri, the Spellchaser, Quicksand
WW - You charm/Lutri and I discard EE/Assembler. T1 I recur EE, T2 I play and activate EE for 2, T3 I recur assembler, T4 I play it. From there I can block lutri and win. The maximum damage you can do to me before then is 3+8+3+3 = 17.
4. Dooey: Greasefang, Okiba Boss, Geier Reach Sanitarium, Parhelion II, Tamiyo's Safekeeping
LL - Tamiyo's Safekeeping means I can never stop greasefang.
5. Wrath of Pie: Eldrazi Temple, Thought-Knot Seer, Thought-Knot Seer, Spell Pierce
WL - OTP I play assembler as a 4/5, which you can't attack into profitably. OTD you TKS taking assembler, and I can't answer both TKSs with EE, especially through spell pierce.
6. GoblinSmashmaster: Collective Brutality, Basking Rootwalla, Mox Emerald, Empty the Warrens
WW - I can always hold up EE for 0, while also getting in with assembler.
7. dte: Blooming Marsh, Vex, Assassin's Trophy, Bitterblossom
LL - You vex EE, trophy ruins, and bitterblossom beats assembler.
8. FTW: Unmask, Force of Despair, Prohibit, Hidetsugu Consumes All
WW - OTP I EE for 3 (which I can do, I have 5 colours of mana in my mana pool). If your prohibit kicked then you can't win, so it resolves, and I can then always hold it up to remove hidetsugu, while also playing assembler + recurring it through your interaction. OTD you unmask my EE. I then play ruins and recur EE, before you can exile my graveyard. Next turn I can play EE for 3, and the turn after that I can use it to kill hidetsugu, or hold up the ability to do so if you haven't played it. Note that the mana value of the back side of hidetsugu is still 3.
Total: 7W = 21.
Last edited by jfb1337; 01-12-2023 at 07:09 PM.
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