[DTB] Vial Goblins

[Radley]

Hey guys, why not a blue splash for draw engine? lol

[Radley]

Adding life from the loam is nice. so +3 main deck then add 4 burning wish so you could either search for LFTL or living death or patriarch's biddng, and dredge from LFTL feeds your graveyard with more goblin for Living death or patriarch's bidding. But is it too much? there will be 11 non goblin spells including aether vial. maybe just 1-2 LFTL because there's already 4 burning wish?

Is the idea above too slow compared to food chain goblin?

[Jak]

Hey guys, why not a blue splash for draw engine? lol

Why would we need more draw with Ringleaders?

Adding life from the loam is nice. so +3 main deck then add 4 burning wish so you could either search for LFTL or living death or patriarch's biddng, and dredge from LFTL feeds your graveyard with more goblin for Living death or patriarch's bidding. But is it too much? there will be 11 non goblin spells including aether vial. maybe just 1-2 LFTL because there's already 4 burning wish?

Is the idea above too slow compared to food chain goblin?

Huh? I think the Life from the Loam idea was not that great. Did you test it? If so, how was it? And Burning Wish is just a no. It weakens Ringleader so much and does not help you at all really. Food Chain Goblins? Wtf? Who plays that anymore?

[Tacosnape]

Ok. Cabal Therapy is nuts. Here's what I've tested it against so far:

1. B/W Confidant. I won game one after Therapying out a Vindicate to protect a Vial. Probably would have won even without the Therapy here. Game two I didn't draw Therapy and succumbed to double Plague. Game three I therapy'd out two Plagues on turn two, then flashed back a Fanatic to knock out two Shades. Cabal Therapy >> Engineered Plague.

2. The Epic Storm (At least I THINK it was The Epic Storm.) I won the roll, went turn one Foothills for Badlands/Lackey. They dropped City of Brass and passed (I'm given to understand this isn't an especially bright move against Goblins.) I swung with Lackey, dropped SGC, then cast Therapy naming LED on a hunch. I hit an LED, then flashed it back for two Rituals and wasted the City of Brass. I promptly got yelled at for playing Goblins and got a Player Lost at this point.

3. R/G Goblins. I therapied out two Matrons and a Ringleader game one and won the long game. Game two I had to mull to 5 and got slaughtered by Lackey and Pyrokinesis. Game three my opponent mulled to six and I managed to shut down their manabase and won easily without seeing a Therapy. I think in hindsight I'd take out at least one Therapy in mirror, but it was so awesome in game one I left it in to try it further. I'll have to play around with it some more.

[Radley]

Why would we need more draw with Ringleaders?



Huh? I think the Life from the Loam idea was not that great. Did you test it? If so, how was it? And Burning Wish is just a no. It weakens Ringleader so much and does not help you at all really. Food Chain Goblins? Wtf? Who plays that anymore?

The first question. Refer to "lol"

2nd question. I don't know how searching for living death or patriarch's bidding is not helpful. LFTL for dredging more goblins into grave.

[Awesomator]

Ok 2 games per matchup is not testing... Wish and loam would slow it down ridiculously.. and the whole wish bidding was already tried in 1.x a while back and it didnt work then. Leader has definitely been enough draw for me. Cabal therapy in most of the decks ive seen have cut lands.. which hurts you in the long run or in tournaments with several rounds.. even if you cut gobs it makes ringleaders worse, which is not worth it imo. Vs deadguy or a B/W confidant build i would much rather have a stable mana base than a 3rd color.. epic storm therapy would be good.. and mirror it seems pretty ok.. however, an unstable mana base with less than 23 lands with 0 card draw is absolutely ridiculous.. and for the U splash.. idk if you were kidding or not.. would probably turn out to be better than R/B/G but it still isn't worth the card draw. To answer the second question, would be very nice to pull that off, but against the top 3 tier decks, bidding.... NQG will counter, Solidarity will go off in your face.. and goblins will bring a ton of goblins in play. Not to mention that it also slows the deck down ridiculously. I still dunno about Loam but i would like to see somebody do some thorough testing.. just seems like it would hurt more than help though.. not a bad SB card vs particular decks but I don't have the slots for it.

[Radley]

lol.. omg i said "lol" which means im only joking about the blue splash

[Tacosnape]

Cabal therapy in most of the decks ive seen have cut lands.. (Bunch of babble that wasn't a sentence)...an unstable mana base with less than 23 lands with 0 card draw is absolutely ridiculous.. .

I don't consider 22 Land and 4 Aether Vials to be unstable. I consider it to be possibly slightly suboptimal, as I myself prefer 23, but to say 22 is unstable is, as you put it, absolutely ridiculous, especially when you factor in the fact that Cabal Therapy is quite capable of hitting most of the cards that can assail your lands and vials.

I think you have to snip your Wasteland/Port base down to 6-7, as I don't think cutting a red-producing land is the right move. Toms' build ran 6 Mountains and no Ports, which is arguably a more -stable- Manabase than the Port builds (He had 18 red sources in his deck to our 15-16.) Stability isn't strictly related to the number of lands. The makeup of these lands is important as well.

[Awesomator]

If you were to cut the ports out then you're completely right the mana base would be more stable. But I was referring to posts dropping down to 19 lands and running therapies.. and also people with 4x wasteland 4x port and 3 color gob decks. Cabal Therapy would be good if ports were out but do you really want to ditch the ports + 3-4 other cards for it? I haven't tested therapy since extended a while back when there were a lot of crappy gobs to sac.. but vs deadguy if I miss with my named therapy.. I wouldn't really want to have to sac a fanatic, lackey, or driver.. which are your early game creatures unless you're running tin st.. although you do have to option to sac if absolutelky necessary. I guess I just don't see what the goblin deck would cut.. and I think losing port is a very big deal.

[Awesomator]

Playing a 1-2 color goblins should probably run all 4 ports and 4 wastes imo.. but if you ran black also and cut the waste and port down to like 6 I don't see why it wouldn't work.. but the question would be.. what are you actually going to cut to get the therapies in there

[Tacosnape]

But vs deadguy if I miss with my named therapy...

If you miss your Therapy against Deadguy, that means you at least aren't facing Engineered Plague and your odds are pretty decent.

I cut one port, one wasteland, and the tin-streets for 3 Therapies and a Mountain in my build, just testing it out. I'm not certain if I'll keep it like that, if for no other reason than I don't own Badlands and would need to get 8 to build both this and Red Death. But Therapy is definitely the sauce when it works.

But you're right. Losing the full army of ports and wastelands will hurt. And I don't think the deck can support more than two Therapies without deviating from a full Waste/Port arsenal.

[Awesomator]

If it turned out to be a good change I would like to keep at least one tin street. I think the MD Tin Street and boarded grips have helped the deck be better prepared to face anything.. Although therapy also helps do the same thing. I do like tin streets because it helps give you decent matchups vs random meta decks like white weenie and faery stompy. I will also try it out to see how much I like it but will most likely be playing R/G with tin streets and the full waste/port engine.

[Bane of the Living]

If it turned out to be a good change I would like to keep at least one tin street. I think the MD Tin Street and boarded grips have helped the deck be better prepared to face anything.. Although therapy also helps do the same thing. I do like tin streets because it helps give you decent matchups vs random meta decks like white weenie and faery stompy. I will also try it out to see how much I like it but will most likely be playing R/G with tin streets and the full waste/port engine.

Green Goblins has been the build I find most consistant especially in the face of white weenie decks with Jittes and such. Tin Street is way better in the mirror match since he's another body and nukes vial.

Please stop talking about nonsense such as loam. Dredging rather than drawing is a bad idea since your replacing a threat with a do nothing gimmicky card. The deck doesnt need Burning Wish when the speed and mana denial strategies can fight through any hate aimed at the deck. Bidding isnt needed as a finisher, you have SGC for that, and Ringleader refills you if your empty.

Please use the edit button rather than double post.

[Radley]

Green Goblins has been the build I find most consistant especially in the face of white weenie decks with Jittes and such. Tin Street is way better in the mirror match since he's another body and nukes vial.

Please stop talking about nonsense such as loam. Dredging rather than drawing is a bad idea since your replacing a threat with a do nothing gimmicky card. The deck doesnt need Burning Wish when the speed and mana denial strategies can fight through any hate aimed at the deck. Bidding isnt needed as a finisher, you have SGC for that, and Ringleader refills you if your empty.

Please use the edit button rather than double post.

omg.. You don't need to post messages that provokes fights. And loam isn't exactly useless, it also revives wastelands. I just suggested Loam, and patriarch's bidding, i didn't said "use it" so don't flame me any longer. i'm suggesting, not pushing people to use it. clear? If that isn't clear enough to you then Piss off

[Awesomator]

Whattup Nateeee.. haha anyways.. ya nothing wrong with throwing the ideas out there.. it's just up to everyone to give an opinion on there and that's what Bane did. I agree that it wasn't necessary and there were no slots for it, however, it's good to think outside the box anyway.

[Bane of the Living]

omg.. You don't need to post messages that provokes fights. And loam isn't exactly useless, it also revives wastelands. I just suggested Loam, and patriarch's bidding, i didn't said "use it" so don't flame me any longer. i'm suggesting, not pushing people to use it. clear? If that isn't clear enough to you then Piss off

I didnt mean to discourage your innovations but I think they'll clearly hamper the decks strategies. Like you mentioned it does put a blip in the decks speed, something not worth trading for recurring wastelands. You'd be using the mana casting loam to just activate Rishadin Port anyways.

Theres certainly room in goblins for some tricks and new tactics but you need to be cautious how you add said gimmick. I suggest you check out the thread I started in the N&D forum for a build of gobs more out of the box. Its based of the empty the warrens//fecundity engine, and not only adds a surprise tactic but turns the deck into aggro//combo. It might be what your looking for since its close to the aforementioned Food Chain builds.

[Lego]

I suggest you check out the thread I started in the N&D forum for a build of gobs more out of the box. Its based of the empty the warrens//fecundity engine, and not only adds a surprise tactic but turns the deck into aggro//combo. It might be what your looking for since its close to the aforementioned Food Chain builds.

And not that I encourage it, but that's probably a better place to put Life from the Loam, seeing as it splashes Green already and stuff. Then you can play some cycling lands, and, uh, okay, I'll stop.

I'm wondering about sideboard strategies. How are people generally boarding against Threshold and Solidarity? Against Solidarity I feel like 4x Chalice is accepted now, and usually backed up by 2x or 3x Pyrostatic Pillar. Is anyone still boarding Pyroblast? And for Threshold, Crypt is pretty much the accepted answer, but I've been talking to some people about just boarding bigger dudes. Mogg Flunkies and Goblin Goon come to mind. Has anyone tried this, or found a boarding strategy that works?

[Awesomator]

My board strategy is similar to the one you're talking about.

I run 4x Chalice (extreeemely good vs combo and also Not Quite Gro)
3x Pillar (also good vs both)
2x Patron of the Akki
3x krosan grip
3x pyrokinesis

Against most forms of combo i love my chances games 2 & 3. Game one is ehhh.
NQG is a good match up and gets better post board. I dont really think the elemental blasts are necessary.

[Awesomator]

lol would be funny to see someone playing loam and cycle lands.. it's awful but its really really funny.

[Lego]

2x Patron of the Akki

This just seems incredibly awful, and always has to me. I'm not saying it is, just that it's always seemed that way to me. I assume these are exclusively for Engineered Plague, yes? But you already run 3 Krosan Grip to answer that. Do you really need 5 answers, and are Patrons an effective answer anyway? It seems to me that most decks running Engineered Plague can easily deal with a single Patron of the Akki once your entire board is gone. Can you explain the rationale, and how good they've been in testing?