Spells
4 Chainer's Edict
4 Consume Spirit
3 Decree of Pain
4 Diabolic Edict
4 Duress
2 Haunting Echoes
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Skeletal Scrying
Artifacts
3 Oblivion Stone
3 Staff of Domination
Lands
4 Cabal Coffers
19 Swamp
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
This is just a rough list that I have been working on.
It has creature control, with a bit of discard on the side.
I uses mass amounts of mana from coffers to use on staff of domination and ending in a lethal consume spirit.
I was using mutilate, but due to large amounts of mana I have been testing decree instead. Using decree gives you a good amount of card draw, and even the cycling is a helper.
my original list also had kokushu and Solemn Similicrum in it but i have removed them as it just seemed to slow it down.
A hymn and a duress and a couple of turns of killed creatures equates to a lethal echoes.
Edict is easy to flashback if needed.
Help with any constructive critisism. i want it to be Monoblack. No splashes, I also Have significant $$$ invested in better deck, so i am keeping this semi-budget.
O-Stone is a great board sweeper as you have no permanents.
Innocent Blood is a good card to stop lacky, but there is significant disruption to stop goblins, then halt their delevopment.
Honestly this has only been tested in a casual environment and not in a true legacy one, so comment.
Thoughts? Suggestions?
II run MBC for casual play. It has some cool ideas imo.
Here's my build
22 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Cabal Coffers
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Infest
4 Sudden Death/Chainer's Edict
0/2 Haunting Echoes
4 Promise of Power
2 Mutilate/Damnation
2 Oblivion Stone
4/3 Magus of the Coffers
4/3 Staff of Domination
0/2 Consume Spirit
I am a big fan of the Magus + Staff infinite combo for the win, just because each piece of the combo individually is also very strong in the deck. You draw your whole deck, Oblivion Stone active and ready to blow away random stuff like Worship or what not, and then pass the turn with two 30/30 Flying Promise of the Power tokens on your board.
Alternatively, you could run Consume Spirit to win that same turn.
I would appreciate feedback and any suggested revisions.
Five questions for you.
Do you find yourself wanting more land, I do sometimes, and I'm effectively running 28!
How good has Decree been, I can't imagine it being fast enough against goblins even when you cycle it.
Have you tried out Promise of Power, I am in love with that card, drawing five cards and getting a 9/9 flyer into play for the same cost as a hardcast decree is awesome. If you're in a jam against aggro and have a handful of cards you can just play it early for a 5/5 flying blocker. And as card draw, it's on par with Skeletal Scryin.
What decks have you played this against and how have you done?
How is your goblins matchup?
Last edited by Clark Kant; 05-22-2007 at 03:10 PM.
You seem to have a faily standard deck list, and by that I mean the one posted on SCG by Jack Eglin (I believe that's the spelling).
I would consider replacing Diabolic Edict with Innocent Blood. It gives you an on the draw answer to Lackey. You do not have enough disruption to stop them. Duress is near worthless, and Hymn will not hurt them that much.
Also, replace Decree of Pain. Sure, the card advantage is nice, but the problem is that by the time you hardcast it, you're either loosing (the opponent has a well developed creature position), or you should have enough to hit them with a large Consume. The cycle cost is also atrocious. You're better off with Infest main, Damnation sideboard.
I'm also somewhat against running Tomb. It's another Wasteland target. Sure, you have Coffers too, but you really want as few Wasteland targets as possible.
A major problem I found is Needle. They needle O-Stone, then Staff. I was considering running Engineered Explosives (setting it to one is really all you need out of it) to take care of Needles, but then they can just Needle that. Chalice may also be an issue because of Black's lack of artifact (and enchantment) removal.
Edit:
Magus of the Coffers is a poor choice. At 5 CMC, he's exsensive. Sure, he's a 4/4 body, but you're running mass creature removal.
Promise of Power is good. I run it at the moment, though I am considering heavily editing my list.
Last edited by Cabal_chan; 03-30-2007 at 01:16 PM. Reason: Beaten to the post.
I don't run him for the 4/4. I run him because this deck can't get enough mana.
Without a coffers type effect, I usually can't win. Magus is coffers 5-7, which usually means that I can either put a save counter or Magus and still Oblivion Stone next turn so that I have the only creature in play, or Promise of Power next turn and get out a big flyer too while drawing into Staff.
The 2 Mutilate are the only things that can kill Magus, and they're just there as a last ditch effort against Goblins. I would cast them before casting Magus obviously.
Would you mind posting your build, and linking to the starcity one you mention. I would loveto see it.
Well, the format is also filled with creature removal. Granted, a 4/4 body makes Magus somewhat difficult to deal with.
The SCG list is no longer up. The build that I currently use (note that I haven't begun editing it) is:
Main deck:
4 Chainer's Edict
4 Consume Spirit
3 Diabolic Tutor
4 Duress
1 Haunting Echoes
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Infest
4 Innocent Blood
3 Oblivion Stone
2 Promise of Power
3 Staff of Domination
4 Cabal Coffers
21 Swamp
Sideboard:
3 Engineered Plague
1 Haunting Echoes
3 Damnation
2 Nightmare Void
2 Skeletal Scrying
4 Wrench Mind
I have not included card explanations. If they are needed, I will add them as an edit.
I've never dared to try this deck against goblins or any of the top tier decks.
Does anyone have any testing results against such matchups. I'm trying to figure out if this deck has the potential to be viable. I mean the horrid goblins matchup I think is what ultimately brought trainwreck to fade away.
I don't think the MUs are too terrible. Game 1 may not be good, since the deck is geared more towards beating Thresh (creature kill + discard) than it is against Goblins (replace discard with more creature kill) and Solidarity (replace creature kill with discard). With Thresh, Pithing Needle is a problem, because they name O-Stone, then Staff.Originally Posted by Clark Kant
Your Solidarity MU is pretty terrible, even post board. I would try SB Hippie or Negator for combo.
Team Multi-Grain - We're wholesome.
Meh, I'm not entirely sure. I'll have to try that out. Sure, the discard package isn't the best, but I don't think it's /that/ terrible. I'll add the results as an edit, or a new post, depending on whether or not someone posts in the meantime.
Last edited by Cabal_chan; 03-30-2007 at 06:18 PM. Reason: Added stuff.
If you are made of money, Grim Tutor is an excellent card for the deck and lets you cut back on a lot of other bullet-style cards.
Also, I have found Phyrexian Processor to be pretty insane. Cranking out 6/6s every turn for a minimal mana investment is where it's at.
Discard is pretty good against Solidarity, but only when you actually do something to go along with it. Sure, MBC can empty the Solidarity player's hand, but they still have a million turns to refill it. You need a decent clock, something this deck doesn't come close to having.
TEAM DRAGONFORCIA-
Ghost ridin' the whip like we invented that shit.
TEAM UNICORN
We're going for number four!
Yeah, that's pretty much what happened. Not to mention the usual win condition, i.e. Consume Spirit, Promise of Power, Corrupt, etc..., takes far too long. Undead Gladiator was mentioned at the MTGSalvation boards. It makes dead cards not so dead, and it is recurrable (Yeah yeah, graveyard hate. Meh.).
I'm using undead gladiator and I must say that card is cool. He fixes dead cards and can be your winning condition ^_^. If you want to win against solidarity, don't go for their cards in hand, kill their land instead(smallpox, sinkhole) because they've got only 19 lands(Although an eraly duress might be really nice.)
Keep in mind Solidarity does have countermagic, so destroying their lands isn't going to be a cake-walk. They've also got plenty of cheap card draw effects to ensure an adequate supply of lands. Finally, 6 of their lands are fetch-lands, and are effectively immune to land destruction effects.
A combination of hand- and land-destruction, backed up with a fast clock, is the only way mono-black can hope to tackle Solidarity. MBC, in almost all it's incarnations, lacks land destruction and a fast clock.....overall, I don't like its chances against Solidarity (especially with so many dead cards in game 1 -- Innocent Blood, Chainer's Edict, any board sweepers etc).
That's why BW Confidant/Deadguy's Ale is good against Solidarity. You go after their hand and lands. MBC doesn't really run any LD. I suppose you could, but then comes: Why should I play this over the BW variant?
Right. With Solidarity, MBC doesn't need to keep them from going off at all. You just have to disrupt them enough that they are forced to spend turns rebuilding their hand. In that time, all you really need is a clock. Undead Gladiator, Hippie or Negator (as suggested by Cait_Sith), or Nantuko Shade?
It's not like they'll have 3 fetchlands to play then combo off. They will surely play at least 1 island before comboing off. 4 FoW, nice, they really got lots of countermagics(sarcasms). If MBC means creature removal, I don't think it will win tourneys because it will always lose against goblin. I'm surprised there's no pox in the list because it destroys land, discards and creature removal all in one card.
They have Remand too.
I didn't include remand in my count because it only returns the countered card into your hand again. But I guess its really useful for delaying. Considering that the deck has duress and hymn to tourach, this eck should be able to land d because it's either your opponent let you use duress or FoW hymn.
1) How does MBC loose to Goblins? Sure, it isn't a great MU at the current moment, but you don't role over to them. Depending on the list, you have 12 creautre removal spells main (Chainer's Edict has flashback), Infest/Damnation/Mutilate, maybe even E.Plague.
2) There is no Pox in the list because this is MBC, not Pox. There is a Pox deck dicussion, and on the front page.
Remand counts because it delays your spell. In the early game, it means a) They dig a card deeper, b) They know you have discard in hand, and c) they delay it.
Again, this is MBC. LD isn't something attributed to it. Pox and Deadguy Ale is more LD. MBC is more creautre kill and discard effects.
^_^ Do you really think that creature removals at sorcery speed will win you games against goblins? Only chance you get is to cast 2 engineered plague because they got goblin matron and goblin ringleader and aether vial so they can play a creature at the end of your turn(you only got sorcery speed removal).
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