[Deck] Dryad Sligh

[Maveric78f]

As kicks_422, I think that my build is too far from the thread to be discussed here. However, as I had the chance to test it a bit yesterday, I have ideas on the discussed components of your decks :
- Tarmogoyf grows much faster than dryad. It can't reach 7/7 (but 6/7 can be) but it's always very quickly 4/5 and a bounce or a removal does not imply to rebigin the grow process. Tarmogoyf is an incredible creature.
- I don't know about lotus petal. I liked it when I had it in first hand close to a land and a tarmogoyf but not much otherwise. I have to say that I take less risks playing a first turn tarmogoyf than you not playing daze nor FoW.
- The wraith does reduce your library count to 56. That is a fact, except considering library exploration such as brainstorm, impulse, scry, ... and except considring the choices of mulligan. The average number of encountered wraith should be used only to calculate the impact on your life total. Eventually, playing wraith*4 is a bargain of playing 56 cards against beginning the game with 17 life instead of 20 (you can regard it as a vangard card ^^). As a cantrip, it is difficult to anticipate the real impact on the games. It happened clearly that during all my games, I never lost due to 5 or less life points. Actually, I never lost ;-).

Actually I lost against Terragueddon being overwhelmed by a terravore or mana denied by a recursive wasteland or even creature denied by a recursive STP. Definitely Terragueddon rolls over my build. Gob was so easy that it was even no fun. I have 15 answers to a first turn lackey (4*FoW, 4*petal, 3*bolt and 4*seal) and after that I have very big creatures (dryad and tarmogoyf) and small creature removal (Fire/Ice, Magma jet) all that MD. Against Golden Grahams, it was very interesting. The biggest threat remains cabal therapy. Eventually I won most of the games but after long struggles.

The Bauble idea may be good, except that the time loss is prejudicial and that it is not raising the dryad count. There is also chromatic star that could be considered.

[Morte]

@aisman13200, Volt, Noobslayer & Co: Petal is questionable indeed, but Wraith is not. You’re wrong if you think that the best place for a “free” cycling card is combo. For decks like Belcher, TES, or the majority of combo, the starting hand is fundamental: they can’t “hope” to draw the right card later. A free cantrip is good only if you’re sure that the card you’re drawing will be a good card (also thanks to a better card pool). For this reason, the natural home for Wraith are decks like Burn or Stompy; or this deck, if you take extra advantage from the card in the graveyard.
Volt, a free cantrip IS like playing a 56 card deck. Why? Count the card in a Wraith list: they’re 56. 56 cards to play, plus 4 tools that, when drawn, immediately become one of the other 56 cards.

I'll try to explain it with an example. Imagine to have an enormous 1056 card deck, with 56 normal cards and 1000 cards with “Discard this card: draw a card”. Now, imagine to play that deck, immediately cycling your free cantrips. Maybe would it be like playing a 1056 card deck? Of course not. Your “starting hand” would be random, but except that, the deck would be exactly your original 56 card deck. Got the point?

We play only 4 “free cantrips” and we don’t play combo, so we have no starting hand incognito: just a 56 card deck.
The real advantage is card pool improvement, and the raised chance to draw every card → greater consistency. Plus, Wraith pumps ‘goyfs too.
I wouldn’t play Wraith if cycling cost was, say, three life; but 2 life is OK. I’m happy to invest 2-4 life every game for the advantage Wraith provides.

On Baubles: they draw a card only a turn later. For this reason, the only deck where they're semi-cantrip is Burn, because Burn has a high probability to draw an instant spell. Playing it during opponent’s upkeep, is more or less like playing it the turn before. But there's always a big chance to draw a sorcery, losing a turn. For this reason, also Burn players are leaving the Bauble plan.
In every other deck, Baubles are even worse. If you want a real artifact cantrip, you can play Chromatic Sphere/Star, but the slow down is not nice.

On Tarmogoyf: I totally agree with Maveric78f, it’s incredible. Maybe the right choice is playing both Tarmogoyf and Dryad; but Tarmogoyf is stronger. If the deck supports it, of course.

Maveric78f, why don't you start a new thread? I like your concept.

[kicks_422]

With 4 Wraiths and 8 fetchlands, you're starting the game at roughly 16 life. Except against Solidarity (and a few random others), that's a disadvantage however you look at it. This deck plays on interaction between you and your opponent - it's not like he's just going to sit in front of you and take Tarmogoyf slappings like he wants it. The cantrip is not "free" because in match-ups where life points matter, those Street Wraiths will be a liability. And if you win, you would have won anyway. It's the deck concept that wins, not the number of cards.

I understand your point of 56-card decks and getting to those "best" cards. But as I think I've already mentioned, what if you can make a deck of 60 "best" cards? Then all that would be left as an argument for Wraiths would be that they pump Tarmogoyfs. And I stand by my decision that Grim Lavamancer >>>> Tarmogoyf.

[noobslayer]

I'm on board with kicks here, and usually we disagree, so it should stand for something.

Street Wraith is just awful in a deck where you want every draw to be clean and useful. I draw street wraith and spend two life getting a card I probably should've drawn in the first place. When I build a sligh list, it's so tight, you could stuff coal up its ass and there would be a diamond in a week. I'm not going to see some stupid weak cantrip and cut four heavily considered slots for suboptimal draw.

And 'Gofy? It may warrant testing, but Grim Lavamancer is the first four of I put in every sligh deck. My success with the deck has lived and died by that 1/1 wizard wonder.

[aisman132000]

I'm gonna say it one more time. The main deck is to tight right now to play street wraith. Sometimes you have to top deck a burn spell to live or kill your combo playing opponent the turn before he can go off. If in situations like these you top deck street wraith instead of say an incinerate (that you would have been playing instead of dumb street wraith) then you have to top deck again and hope you find a burn spell. I personally would hate to top deck street wraith knowing it could have been burn that would go to my opponents nug. Also against burn street wraith is awful as it essentially gives your opponent another card.

Goyf seems rather lame to me as well as then you can't play grim lavamancer which is actually an amazing card.

Dude if you want to play street wraith and goyf go ahead i won't stop you. Make your own thread and knock yourself out. But this thread is to discuss dryad sligh.

[noobslayer]

@Morte. I'd rather have more burn and threats than lose and attrition war.

[kicks_422]

And I think that's game.

True, noobslayer and I disagree on a lot of things regarding this deck, but we both know what cards it takes for Sligh to be effective. Street Wraith is NOT one of them, and we will NEVER take Grim Lavamancer out.

[Maveric78f]

Morte, they are right I think. I invite you to help me in my deck on the other thread.

Goyf is a wonderful card but you cannot base half of your deck on a card you cannot even protect. For dryad, it is a bit different, because dryad is synergic with sligh and does not require to change the sligh build.

[Jak]

4 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wasteland
1 Forest
3 Mountain

4 Kird Ape
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Quirion Dryad
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Grim Lavamancer

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Fireblast
4 Seal of Fire
4 Magma Jet
2 Mishra's Bauble

SB
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
4 Pyroblast
3 Tormod's Crypt
4 Krosan Grip

This is the list I have been working with. I didn't like petals at all so baubles as a 2 off could be okay. Still testing them out. I really like the deck with all the power it has and getting down huge creatures late game is crazy. Any thoughts on the list?

[aisman132000]

I feel like the 1 basic forest should probably come out for a stomping ground or another fetch. the baubles look kind of janky to me but you could leave them in if you really wanted to though. honestly i think they should probably be just burn spells. I just can't imagine you wanting to top deck a bauble. How has the Tarmogoyf-lavamancer interaction been for you? i think the consensus is that they don't play nice together. Altogether this looks a lot better than some of the other Tarmogoyf lists though.

[noobslayer]

I think you could safely play both together, as both have huge targets on them once resolves, so my money would say there isn't an overwhelming disadvantage generated. Lavamancer can easily remove duplicates so it doesn't power down the 'gofyster. I will be testing this in short order.

[Jak]

Thanks for the feedback. Baubles do look janky, but they basically read:

Mishra's Bauble 0

T, Sac: Look at top card of Library,
Draw a card, Give +1/+1 to Goyf.

I just want to be able to draw this sometime and pump Goyf. It feels good to have 6/7s bashing face in the late game.

It doesn't happen often at all that Grim and Goyf conflict. They are anti-synergystic, but they are both bombs, so it really does not matter. It is not like I have to remove cards and weaken Goyf. They both work in the deck together.

[aisman132000]

in this deck though is a 6/7 goyf really gonna be that much better than a 5/6? Also you only play 2 so you won't see them to often. Incinerate just seems better.

[Jak]

Probably not, but it won't die to an Enforcer block and it has trample, so it gets more damegae through, doesn't die to double bolt. I just don't think I need 2 Incinerates in the deck. I like having the 20 burn spells and I don't feel the need for more. It lets me draw into more burn or creatures, so it is like I am playing a 58 card deck (in a way).

[shahzadmasih]

Hi, this post is very informative; however I would like some specific information. If someone can help me then please send me a private message. Best Regards,

[noobslayer]

People have to stop saying such things when referring to Bauble and Wraith. You still have to draw them. You have to wait for the card and cast it. It can still be countered/stifled. In the end, burn and more threats will always be better than some cantrip effect.

[Volt]

Tarmogoyf is better than Quirion Dryad. While Dryad has the potential to get bigger, it rarely lives up to that potential. Also, Goyf is always a good topdeck, whereas Dryad is a fairly horrible draw past the first few turns of the game. The only question in my mind is whether Dryad deserves a spot in the deck over, say, Slith Firewalker. I don't think it does.

As I mentioned in another thread, I think Goyf and Lavamancer can coexist in the deck. Goyf will likely be a 3/4 or 4/5 just from what's in the opponent's graveyard, which means we would only need to keep 1-3 cards in our own graveyard to maximize the Goyf. That should be doable. You just have to be careful about which cards you remove when you're lavamancing.


// Land
4 Taiga
1 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
6 Mountain

// Creatures
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Kird Ape
4 Slith Firewalker
4 Tarmogoyf

// Enchantments
4 Seal of Fire

// Sorceries
4 Chain Lightning
2 Rift Bolt / Lava Spike

// Instants
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Magma Jet
3 Fireblast

// Sideboard
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
4 Pyroblast
4 Krosan Grip
3 ???

[gmorakis]

This is more of a Goyf Sligh decklist than Dryad Sligh, but I feel it is basically the same concept, plus I didn't want to start a brand new thread. I was always underwhelmed with Slith in the deck, and I was searching for something more powerful for that slot. After seeing a RGB Sligh list that took first at an event in Japan I fell in love with the idea of Dark Confidant as the replacement. He has really good synergy with Jet and pretty bad synergy with Fireblast, but I would gladly trade 6 damage for 4 to the opponent with this deck.

This is basically my streamlined take on a few different Sligh lists with the 3 bombs of goyf, confidant, and lavamancer. Recently I have also been toying with the idea of adding Ball Lightning back into the deck to replace Mogg Fanatic and to diversify the mana costs, because Chalice at 1 shuts down 24 cards in the deck. Plus with the aforementioned bombs, there can't be enough spot removal to kill everything. Rift Bolt is pretty tech against Chalice though; I'm considering upping the count to 3. Anyway, here's my list:

RGB Goyf Sligh

18 Land
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Taiga
4 Badlands
2 Mountain

20 Creatures
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Kird Ape
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant

12 Instants
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Magma Jet
4 Fireblast

6 Sorceries
4 Chain Lightning
2 Rift Bolt

4 Enchantments
4 Seal of Fire

Sideboard (Perhaps some black in here to take advantage of the splash?)
4 Pyroblast
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
4 Krosan Grip
3 Price of Progress (3 Duress?)

[Lego]

I understand your point of 56-card decks and getting to those "best" cards. But as I think I've already mentioned, what if you can make a deck of 60 "best" cards?

What if you could build a deck of 64 "best" cards? How about 128 "best" cards? The thing is, you can't. In any given deck, no matter how many cards it has, unless every card in the deck is the same, there will always be a single worst card in the deck. It won't always be the most obvious, and sometimes it's based on the meta. Whatever it turns out to be, take out that card, and you're left with a different (or possibly the same, if you're taking out one of a multiple) worst card. Take that one out and do it again. Eventually you've got 60 cards. His point is simply that you can do that 4 more times and toss in 4 Street Wraith with the added advantage of making Goyf bigger. He's absolutely correct in that theory of culling out the bad cards. If you assume that it makes your deck 56 cards, however, you need to assume that it makes your starting life total 12. Really it probably gives you like 58.5 cards and a starting life total of 17. I'm all for it just to make Goyf bigger.

Sometimes you have to top deck a burn spell to live or kill your combo playing opponent the turn before he can go off. If in situations like these you top deck street wraith instead of say an incinerate (that you would have been playing instead of dumb street wraith) then you have to top deck again and hope you find a burn spell.

And sometimes you'll topdeck Street Wraith when your opponent is at 9 life, cycle it to swing for 6 with Goyf, and hit them with the Bolt you just drew off the cycle. If you're so afraid of reducing the amount of burn in the deck, then don't replace burn with Street Wraith. He doesn't make you less likely to draw anything else that's in the deck, he just allows you to clear out the current 4 worst cards in the deck. Putting in more burn doesn't make you more likely to draw it, except insomuch as it changes the ratio of burn to other cards.

[DragoFireheart]

The Street Wraith is nice for its cycling, but I'm not too sure about the life loss when going up against other burn/sligh/aggro decks.