[Deck] Salvager Game (Golden Grahams)

[Ravage]

Summoner's Pact will have to be tested. While it seems solid, it's one of those cards that can end the game for you...in the bad way. Four mana may be a bit difficult to pay sometimes if your win condition happens to be removed. I'd be cautious...and I think we may just have to stick with what we have and decide against it, especially since it only fetches your Gamekeepers.

[Tacosnape]

Summoner's Pact looks interesting indeed. I intend to try it, but I'm not completely sold on it.

Is there a reason nobody runs Orim's Chant in this deck outside of the Alabama border?

To my knowledge there aren't many cards in existence (I can think of one) that disrupt this deck that aren't solved by either Pernicious Deed or Orim's Chant. That would in my mind make having four of each a pretty solid bet.

Deed handles Needle, Crypt, Mage, True Believer, Null Rod, Chalice of the Void, etc. Basically, anything that's a permanent.

Orim's Chant handles Swords to Plowshares, Force of Will, Pyrokinesis, Diabolic Edict, Stifle, etc. Basically, anything that's an Instant.

The only card that this doesn't really guard you from effectively is Gempalm Incinerator. But Deed will keep Incinerator from being lethal.

[T_B]

I must say, after winning FNM with this, I saw Blood moons (AHH), Needles, Crypts, and Goblin Grenade; I still won.

I have found a lot of the deck resilient, and 3 MD Deed was wonderful.

[Bane of the Living]

I must say, after winning FNM with this, I saw Blood moons (AHH), Needles, Crypts, and Goblin Grenade; I still won.

I have found a lot of the deck resilient, and 3 MD Deed was wonderful.

Ill go ahead and claim this deck more resilient to hate than Solidarity. You dont have the specific angle to attack such as islands, instants, and milling. Most people dont know what the deck is until you win the first game. You play proactive combo protection/disruption. I won through True Believers, Tormods Crypts, Null Rods, and at least a dozen StP's.

I think this is one of the most skill testing decks in the format which is a large reason it goes under played. I sat in my seat thinking over a turn winning hand on a few occasions rattling my brain over what to resolve in what order, what to wish for, how to play through swords, and what to therapy. After thinking of plays for a few minutes you can win through almost every given situation.

Summoner's Pact looks interesting indeed. I intend to try it, but I'm not completely sold on it.

Is there a reason nobody runs Orim's Chant in this deck outside of the Alabama border?

To my knowledge there aren't many cards in existence (I can think of one) that disrupt this deck that aren't solved by either Pernicious Deed or Orim's Chant. That would in my mind make having four of each a pretty solid bet.

Deed handles Needle, Crypt, Mage, True Believer, Null Rod, Chalice of the Void, etc. Basically, anything that's a permanent.

Orim's Chant handles Swords to Plowshares, Force of Will, Pyrokinesis, Diabolic Edict, Stifle, etc. Basically, anything that's an Instant.

The only card that this doesn't really guard you from effectively is Gempalm Incinerator. But Deed will keep Incinerator from being lethal.

I ran the deck at my local tourny and went 3-2. I lost to Cursed Totem not having a wish target since I played Mox Monkey and no Harmonic Sliver. I played 3 Chant, 3 Grip, and 2 Deed in my board. (2 deed main) I only brought the chants in against a control reanimator deck but I dont know how much better it was than Duress. Chant seems like it might not be worth it. Especially considering white is your third color. Duress and Therapy can handle anything.

[T_B]

I have not found a need for Chant. I personally do not see why simply because you can handle permenants (Deed + Blood) and spells (Duress + therapy). My SB is more geared towards getting the combo off, so stalling. Here it is.


Wishboard
1 Gamekeeper
1 Salvagers
1 City of Brass
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Keljorn Dead

Other
1 Simic Sky Swallower
4 Defence Grid
4 Ghostly Prison


Thoughts? Comments?

[Bane of the Living]

How is Ghostly Prison good? If aggro attacks into keeper they lose. When do you side the SSS? I usually just try for the combo always and fight the hate. When is it worth the alternative plan?

[Tacosnape]

Duress and Therapy isn't enough to win through a dedicated control deck, like Landstill, which packs hordes and hordes of countermagic and spot removal, nor a dedicated Aggro Control deck like Threshold, which has all its counters and STP in addition to Needle and sometimes Crypt and Stifle.

Additionally, Duress and Therapy is not always enough for you to win through Solidarity, which will hijack your LED storm count in a heartbeat, especially since half your deck will be gone in the first place. Nor are they enough to stop faster combo decks like Epic Storm and Iggy Pop. Even Burn can screw you up with Fireblast.

Chant fills all of these roles beautifully. It makes you the superior combo deck in most combo mirrors, and it lets you barrel through Control and Aggro-Control when backed up by Duress and Therapy.

If aggro attacks into keeper they lose.

This isn't true, as your combo can't go off at instant speed, and very often attacking into the Gamekeeper will cause you to flip over a Salvagers which will meet with a removal spell.

[T_B]

While they cannot attack into a Keeper, its REALLY nice to make sure they cannot explode (Goblins) and swing in for lethal.

Its also nice against LD and other Jank decks.

The SSS tranforms this deck into "The Game", where I side out Salvagers for it, so gamekeepers get it out.

@ Tacosnape: I agree, burn and counters can screw you over. I however, have almost never run into those (aside from StP and counters) so I feel that this is a better choice.

[Tash]

Well, I've taken the deck to 2 GPTs

Indianapolis:
http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=32764.0

Louisville:
http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=32970.0

That is a third and first place finish. I believe that the second list is close to optimal, considering my exhaustion, and still pulling out the 6-0-2 record.

[Kyachi]

I realize that this would pale in comparison to the new Hulk Flash version that will no doubt nullify this suggestion with it's banning or its speed, but adding blue for Flash in this deck allows for some more protection, as well as better MD answers to Flash "mirror" matches could be a possibility.

First, it automatically kills Gamkeepers on turn two as opposed to waiting on Dark Ritual to power them out on turn two and hope for a way to kill them.

Second, it lets you splash in hate cards against Hulk Flash, i.e. Stifle and Spell Snare, as well as using Intuition or Gifts to set up the Combo against decks that don't win on turn 0-2.

[Bane of the Living]

I realize that this would pale in comparison to the new Hulk Flash version that will no doubt nullify this suggestion with it's banning or its speed, but adding blue for Flash in this deck allows for some more protection, as well as better MD answers to Flash "mirror" matches could be a possibility.

First, it automatically kills Gamkeepers on turn two as opposed to waiting on Dark Ritual to power them out on turn two and hope for a way to kill them.

Second, it lets you splash in hate cards against Hulk Flash, i.e. Stifle and Spell Snare, as well as using Intuition or Gifts to set up the Combo against decks that don't win on turn 0-2.

When I heard about Flash it was Gamekeeper not Hulk I immediately thought of. It seems like an auto include. Infact if Im not playing Hulk Flash at the GP Im taking this with Flash in it!

Congrats on your finish at each GPT. I just made top 8 at my stores Tundra tourny with it. This deck is under played and under appreciated.

[nightshade81]

Here is some stolen tech that is simply disgusting. The conversion sideboard implemented to the one of the formats most controlling combo decks. The final list is somewhere between a sub-optimal list of Truffle Shuffle and the Rock. Personally I think this is what the deck needed to be pushed to the upper tiers. Without further a due, here is the list:

Lands: 20
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
3 Windswept Heath
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Polluted Delta
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
2 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Badlands
2 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Forest

Spells: 35
4 Living Wish
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Duress
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Dark Ritual
2 Summoners Pact
4 Tainted Pact
1 Chromatic Star
1 Chromatic Sphere
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Innocent Blood

Creatures: 5
3 Gamekeeper
2 Auriok Salvagers

Sideboard: 15
1 Gamekeeper
1 Auriok Salvagers
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Bone Shredder
1 Maze of Ith
1 City of Brass
2 Gigapede
1 Grave-Shell Scarab
3 Damnation
3 Crime // Punishment

Board Plan
-2 Auriok Salvagers
-4 Lion's Eye Diamond
-4 Dark Ritual
+1 City of Brass
+2 Gigapede
+1 Grave-Shell Scarab
+3 Damnation
+3 Crime // Punishment

Post Board List:
Lands: 21
1 City of Brass
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
3 Windswept Heath
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Polluted Delta
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
2 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Badlands
2 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Forest

Spells: 33
4 Living Wish
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Duress
2 Summoners Pact
4 Tainted Pact
1 Chromatic Star
1 Chromatic Sphere
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
3 Innocent Blood
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Damnation
3 Crime // Punishment

Creatures: 6
3 Gamekeeper
2 Gigapede
1 Grave-Shell Scarab

There are many many was this deck can be shaped, and I do not consider the above list to be tuned 100% correctly. For starters we still have 3 Gamekeepers and 2 Summoners Pact in the deck post sideboarding. Actually you could board in another Gamekeeper if you wanted to board out something else; I don’t because I feel Gamekeeper to be the next weakest card in the deck and would like to board them out more then anything else left in the deck.

I order to be able to board Gamekeepers out we would have to cut Dark Ritual, which I have considered. In that case would have to come up with an acceleration plan that works both preboard and postboard. Maybe Mox Diamond, Chrome Mox, Ancient Tomb, Ebon Stronghold, or Peat Bog. Have them over Dark Ritual would allow you to board out the Gamekeepers and free up MD slots if using the land acceleration approach. Although I think this hurts our match-up versus other decks too much so I haven’t done so.

Another change the deck could make is Cabal Pit for Bone Shredder so you can board in an additional land. The reason I don’t leave a mana producing land in the SB postboard is the aggro-control player shouldn’t ever let Living Wish resolve. If they do get Maze of Ith, it forces them to overextend for the rest of the game.

I haven’t done extensive testing with the deck, but postboard it seems to crush aggro-control into oblivion. Overall this is just a rough estimation of what the deck has the potential to do. I posted, without thorough testing because I wanted to get other peoples input and to start brainstorming good ideas.

Other cards that could be boarded in are Vindicate, Swords to Plowshares, and Haunting Echoes. I’m also trying to fit Sensei's Divining Top main deck.

Some final notes:
Board plan for true control is somewhere around -2 Ritual/Pernicious Deed for 2 Gigapede and leaving one Grave-Shell Scarab in the SB to be wished for. The deck is less equipped to combo off via Gamekeeper but the match-up becomes favored with its alternative win conditions.

Board plan for TES/ETW Combo is -3 Innocent Blood for 3 Crime // Punishment. You can also put in Damnation but I find it too slow because we can generally combo if we have 4 mana. Another card if you’re worried about this match up is to put one The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale as a Wish target.

EDIT: I copy pasted a wrong/old list

[Bane of the Living]

Why are you forsaking the combo against control decks? I find I just need to push through a key Duress or Deed to steal the game away. Maybe you should just focus the combo a bit more with cards like the Pact or get the Crime Punishments in the maindeck.

Your Truffle Shuffle sb is still hosed by graveyard hate so I dont see what the switch is doing for you really. 5 mana to recast Gigapedes just isnt reliable with a 21 land mana base. Especially fighting Wastelands, Daze and Meddling Mages.

[nightshade81]

The switch is mainly for aggro-control not true control. I would say traditional Gamekeeper is 50-50 preboard and generally 45-55 or worse postboard vs aggro-control. With the Truffle Shuffle SB it becomes more like 65-35 in our favor and even as high as 80-20 if the don't have any control hate. If you don't believe my number ask anyone who has played Truffle Shuffle versus Thres and they will tell you it's nearly unwinnable.

Gigapedes can be hard to cast sometimes but not ussally. Truffle Shuffle runs 23 land and 21 is not far from, plus like I said in my other post you can bring in one more land if you really want to to get the count to 22. But I mean think about it we have to get to 4 land a lot of the time to cast Gamekeeper is one more mana really that hard?

Meddling Mages are no problem postboard, Daze can be played around (usually hits a Gigapede), and who the hell plays aggro-control with Wastelands? Even if they do I only have 4 nonbasics main.

Personally I like trading in a near 50-50 match for an autowin when it's considered our hardest match.

[Bane of the Living]

I meant control matchups. Aggro control is easier imo since you have deed and innocent blood as relevant cards. Decks like Landstill really trump you since they run a total fuck you in the ass package. They run Wasteland.

[Tash]

I'd just like to mention the fact that I have taken down Landstill when it counts in tournament settings by resolving and sticking one key card. Sylvan Library.

Laugh now if you want, but when you cast duress 3 times in a row and then a cabal therapy before dropping Gamekeeper, you'll feel the power of it too.

[Bane of the Living]

I'd just like to mention the fact that I have taken down Landstill when it counts in tournament settings by resolving and sticking one key card. Sylvan Library.

Laugh now if you want, but when you cast duress 3 times in a row and then a cabal therapy before dropping Gamekeeper, you'll feel the power of it too.

Tash what is your current decklist? You played keeper at the GP right? Can you give us a brief outline of your non-flash matchups?

Ive cut Tainted Pact recently for Summoners and took the Deeds out of the maindeck once again to focus on combo asap.

[Tash]

Golden Grahams GP Columbus

Lands: 20
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
2 Windswept Heath
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Polluted Delta
2 Snow-Covered Swamp
2 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Badlands
2 Swamp
1 Plains
2 Forest

Creatures: 5
3 Gamekeeper
2 Auriok Salvagers

Spells: 36
4 Living Wish
4 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
4 Tainted Pact
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Chromatic Star
4 Sylvan Library
4 Dark Ritual
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Chromatic Sphere

Sideboard 15
SB: 1 Gamekeeper
SB: 1 Auriok Salvagers
SB: 1 Phyrexian Tower
SB: 1 Orzhov Guildmage
SB: 2 Harmonic Sliver
SB: 3 Massacre
SB: 1 City of Brass
SB: 1 Pernicious Deed
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void

That was my GP list. To be honest, the matchups went something like this.

Goblins & Aggro: Cast deed and kill things, combo fast. Post board, bring in massacres and the extra deed, and take out Sylvan Library.

Thresh/Fish/Aggro Control: Same as other aggro, but make sure you stick Sylvan Library so your hand is stocked full of goodies like duresses, therapies, and a Pernicious deed to make them frown. Side in the same things as versus the aggro matchup, but side out 1x Wish, 1x Dark Ritual, 1x Tainted Pact, and 1x ...well whatever.

Landstill and other dedicated control: Landstill is decided by landing a Sylvan Library and stocking your hand full of goodies. The turn before you want to try going off (if they have a standstill in play), you cast tainted pact before discard and keep them down to 7 cards in hand, and then take apart their hand with good stuffs. Library makes sure you keep making your land drops, which is essential in the control matchup. Sideboard surprisingly for me has been siding in the Salvagers and the Gamekeeper so you have a higher threat density, and well, something will get sent farming, so you can wish for the guy later.

Combo: Duress and Therapy are your best friend, Engineered Explosives are also really really good too. If you want the Leylines still, side them in, and side out random one ofs. I think I did the 1x Living Wish/Pact/Dark Ritual. You're the control deck sometimes in this matchup. If you're playing non permanent based combo, you take out the deeds and then side in leyline. Personally I want the leylines out, and have been considering extirpate. they're not terrible in the end, but who knows with this new meta.

[nightshade81]

@Tash's list:

basically Sylvan Library > Innocent Blood, interesting theory. Allows you to find a more versatile cards that sac Gamekeeper (Therapy, Deed, Wish). I think it's a good plan overall. Having you considered running MD land that allow you to sac the keeper to make-up for the missing Innocent Bloods?

I'm still not sold that Sylvan Library > Sensei's Divining Top but that's minor.

[Bane of the Living]

I dont really know about that one. Innocent Blood is the best black removal spell in the format. I've used it on legions of Goblin Lackeys which surely saved me from losing those games. Its also killed a large sum of Meddling Mages naming combo cards. Since it's so cheap its often more effective against decks like Thresh since Deed is practically 4cc thanks to Daze.

Tash why the explosives?