[Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

[Hanni]

Another thing to keep in mind too is that Smallpox is only going to be effective in the versions that run a lower threat density (10-12 creatures instead of 14+). It's also only effective in versions utilizing the LD plan. In my decklist, which runs 11 guys and the full LD suite, Smallpox works great.

I did make a few small changes to my B/w/g list though...

MD
-1 Swamp
-1 Bayou

SB
-3 Pithing Needle
+3 Extirpate

[Whit3 Ghost]

If we just want LD, we can find LD which is not so punishing in terms of killing our own lands and discarding our own cards...Often it is just clunkier than a Sinkhole.

But, I guess I'd take note of that and do some testing with Smallpox, then. I'd have my results up in approximately two weeks(damn schoolwork).

You don't play it for LD. You play it for the fact that it sets your opponent back at least one turn. You also don't play it over Sinkhole.

It shines in the Threshold matchup as getting rid of Mongoose is crucial when playing against that deck.

[Hummingbird TG]

You play it for the fact that it sets your opponent back at least one turn

I've said this before, but this is only when you're on the play. When you're on the draw, Smallpox screws with you just as badly...

[Hanni]

I've said this before, but this is only when you're on the play. When you're on the draw, Smallpox screws with you just as badly...

You're understanding Smallpox. Smallpox is a great compliment to the rest of your deck if you run a low threat base. It compliments your LD, discard, and creature removal. I only run it as a 2-of, but it's always a strong play. This deck is all about resource denial, and it denies all resources. It hurts you, but it always hurts your opponent's much more.

Smallpox will get discussed forever. It doesn't fit in all Deaduy... if you run more aggro, it doesn't work. If you play more control, it does. It compliments the attacks this deck utilizes. I like thinking of Deadguy as permanent control and discard... you remove their permanents with LD, creature removal, and artifact/enchantment removal, while discarding their instansts/sorceries with Duress and Hymn to Tourach (discarding lands is good too).

I think the green splash is broken. The deck is easily capable of supporting a 3rd color if it's a light splash. Green gives the deck huge advantages. Tarmogoyf is a huge beater... 1G for 4/5 or 5/6 is just huge. That. in itself, is an extremely strong addition to the deck.

With green, the deck also gets Pernicious Deed. Deed is crazy. With 11 creatures and no other nonland permanents, Deed is nasty. You always get to the mid-late game. Deed wipes away, basically, everything. If you hold onto a Tarmogoyf after, you have a 5/6. Tarmogoyf ends games. If you drop a Shade with 5+ lands in play, he also ends games.

I think green answers a large weakness of the archtype: Aggro

Tarmogoyf, as a 4/5 or 5/6 answers alot of aggro problems.

Pernicious Deeds also answers alot of aggro problems.

The deck owns combo and control. When played right, it owns Slivers, Fish, and Thresh. If it can address Goblins, Angel Stompy, Zoo, and other aggro... it can answer the metagame. Unmask definitely deals with Belcher and TES really well. E Plague is a fan favorite vs Goblins. Control always hates discard and LD. I think B/g/w Deadguy is definitely a contender in this metagame.

[Hummingbird TG]

One thing its good to know is that Deadguy is incredibly flexible, and based on a hand, one can even play it as Sui Black, in a aggressive style, even with only 12 creatures. Smallpox basically removes the flexibility and forces you to be control.

[Hanni]

The deck is always flexible. That's why many consider it a metagame deck. Fish, and even Thresh, are the same way too. Smallpox doesn't remove flexibility... it focuses the strategy. In a control version of Deadguy, you want a low threat base to make room for a ton disruption spells. Smallpox works very well with this strategy. Tarmogoyf and Pernicous Deeds make this strategy extremely strong.

[feuerizer]

Nice deck, Hanni.

I wanted to test Tarmogoyf since I have seen him, but without playing him in
a Thresh shell.

I think this deck has very much potential.
I just ripped some of my decks apart to build this one.

It seems to be pretty good!

[Holo_rip]

Hanni's decklist looks very strong, that's sure.
but we have to do test before claiming "this rocks all deck, and all others versions of deadguy".
I agree that splashing green and white give us a new way to go, but we have to be very carefull about opponent denial. With three colors, our manabase tend to unstable, and if we loose a specific land, it can make our god hand into a crappy one.
I'll test Hanni's list for sure, cause i've already plan to to a deck very similar (but with more bord sweeper, and some fatty like spirit monger and tombstalker).
So, wait and see ins't ?

Holo.

[feuerizer]

Hanni's decklist looks very strong, that's sure.
but we have to do test before claiming "this rocks all deck, and all others versions of deadguy".

Of course, no question.

The mana base problems that may occur are of high concern.
At the beginning of the game, we only need and then maybe for vindicate.
With a godstart the deck can drop a pretty fat Tarmogoyf in round three.

So far I am testing with a 3/3 split for bayou/scrubland, because the cards that need the colored mana are equal, 6 in every color.


EDIT: Should there be a new thread for Hanni´s version??

[Hummingbird TG]

Nah. Same gameplan, same deck. Just changing the win condition doesn't change what the deck is...

[Whit3 Ghost]

This is my last bit on Smallpox for a while.

To sum up my opinion: If you're not running a super agro list with Mom and Jitte, you should be running Smallpox.

Hanni's list isn't bad, although MWS has been absolutely screwing me. My jury is still out.

[feuerizer]

This is my last bit on Smallpox for a while.

To sum up my opinion: If you're not running a super agro list with Mom and Jitte, you should be running Smallpox.

Hanni's list isn't bad, although MWS has been absolutely screwing me. My jury is still out.

My testing so far has shown, that Smallpox is ok.
Not great, but ok.
Up to now when I played Smallpox it was always card advantage for me.
And as a 2-of you dont see it every game.

There may be better cards for this slot...

[thefreakaccident]

B/w/g Deadguy

Lands (23)
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
3 Scrubland
2 Bayou
6 Swamp
4 Wasteland

Creatures (11)
3 Nantuko Shade
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf

Spells (25)
4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
2 Unmask / Smallpox
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
2 Swords to Plowshares
4 Vindicate
2 Pernicious Deed

Sideboard (15)
2 Unmask
4 Engineered Plague
4 Dystopia
2 Pernicious Deed
3 Pithing Needle

I just put this together, no testing at all. Tarmogoyf is just so busted that he seems worth trying in alot of decks, so I threw him in here. Someone else already suggested it, so I put my spin on it. Green gives access to Deed, which is pretty awesome. I always felt like this deck had slight issues with fast aggro, which Deed seems like it can answer somewhat. I never want to run Specter in this deck because it always seems good against good matchups and bad against bad ones, but Tarmogoyf definitely seems like a house. The deck lacks in instants, but I think the discard should help a little. If not, the deck still has some ability to pump it. This build is probably bad, it's just tossed together. I still really like Aven Mindcensor in this deck...

4 Dark Confidant
3 Nantuko Shade
3 Aven Mindcensor

4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
4 Vindicate
3 Smallpox

4 Wasteland

That seems like a really strong LD base... if you add 4 Duress and 2 Unmask, you gain a strong discard base too. If you toss in Dark Ritual and some lands, I think it would make for a strong deck as well.

I am not too sure that this list (the first list) belongs in this thread, seeing as it looks like it just wants to become funk brew. Look into the funkbrew thread in developemental if you do not nknow what it is.

[Hanni]

// Lands
1 [TSP] Forest (3)
1 [MM] Plains (3)
1 [MR] Swamp (4)
2 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
4 [R] Bayou
4 [u] Scrubland
2 [R] Savannah
2 [JU] Nantuko Monastery

// Creatures
3 [RAV] Dark Confidant
2 [AP] Necravolver
2 [VI] River Boa
2 [PLC] Mire Boa
4 [AP] Spectral Lynx

// Spells
2 [AP] Gerrard's Verdict
3 [AP] Pernicious Deed
4 [FUT] Glittering Wish
2 [AP] Vindicate
3 [RAV] Darkblast
4 [4E] Swords to Plowshares
4 [7E] Duress
4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [AP] Gerrard's Verdict
SB: 1 [AP] Pernicious Deed
SB: 1 [AP] Vindicate
SB: 1 [TSP] Harmonic Sliver
SB: 1 [TSB] Mystic Enforcer
SB: 1 [RAV] Loxodon Hierarch
SB: 1 [AP] Death Grasp
SB: 1 [IN] Dueling Grounds
SB: 1 [RAV] Privileged Position
SB: 1 [RAV] Grave-Shell Scarab
SB: 1 [GP] Conjurer's Ban
SB: 4 [UL] Engineered Plague

I am not too sure that this list (the first list) belongs in this thread, seeing as it looks like it just wants to become funk brew. Look into the funkbrew thread in developemental if you do not nknow what it is.

I don't understand what you mean. My decklist is nothing like Funkbrew. Funkbrew tries to utilize small regeneration creatures and manlands to get around the drawback of Deed. The deck does not focus on LD.

Just because I splashed green in Deadguy does not make it an entirely different deck. I added Tarmogoyf and Deed... those are the only 2 green spells. Does 2 spells really make it a different deck? It still utilizes the exact same strategies as before, except now it has a board sweeper and a bigger longer lasting beater (compared to Jotun Grunt).

I think green gives the deck a tremendous amount of stength at the expense of a little bit of manabase unstability, and I have yet to find myself getting screwed over badly with the 3rd color splash. Deed just fullfills such a huge role in the deck that the deck was lacking before which was basically decks that committed lots of permanents to the board very fast (like Goblins, Affinity, etc). Additionally, Goyf is just a monster. 1G for a 4/5 is just retarded... 1G for a 6/7 is rediculously broken.

[Hummingbird TG]

Why not just SB Pernicious Deed? It ain't even necessary in the Goblins matchup...

[Hanni]

Why not just SB Pernicious Deed? It ain't even necessary in the Goblins matchup...

It improves alot of matchups. It improves Goblins by killing Vial (this is an LD deck, btw), while also taking out some of their 1 drops. Another thing to remember about Deed is... the deck has Dark Ritual. Sometimes you topdeck into Rituals (when you don't open with them), and Deed makes functional use of them (so does Nantuko Shade, which is why I love Ritual so much). You can Deed for 1 on turn 2 with a Ritual, and Deed for larger later.

Deed is good vs Stax, Affinity, Enchantress, Fish, Slivers, Zoo, so on and so forth. This deck is a resource denial deck. Deed is a mass resource denial card. Deed is just so good in here. You only run 11 (technically 7) threats and you only ever need to commit 1 threat to the board to win (Tarmo or Shade).

Current changes:
-1 Swamp
-2 Smallpox
+2 Swords to Plowshares
+1 Pernicous Deed

I love Smallpox, and I know I was advocating it earlier. In a B/w control build, I'd definitely run it, but I think the Deeds in this deck replace the decks direction. Smallpox kills my guys, so does Deed. Dropping Smallpox also allows me to cut 1 land for another Deed. This frees up a card in sideboard. I decided to toss another Unmask in there to handle combo. My instant and enchantment count both go up 1 as a result, which is another additional benefit.

EDIT:

I decided to post my 3c version in a new thread, since it's a big pull away from B/w Deadguy and this thread is called B/w Deadguy, not B/w/x or whatever.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=6238

On another note, here's the B/w Deadguy version I'd play if I didn't like the 3c version so much:

B/w Deadguy

Lands (23)
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Scrubland
7 Swamp
4 Wasteland

Creatures (11)
4 Dark Confidant
3 Nantuko Shade
3 Jotun Grunt
1 Tombstalker

Spells (27)
4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
3 Smallpox
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Vindicate

Not too sure about the SB, and the 1-of Tombstalker can always become another StP.

[Hummingbird TG]

I'd prefer the Tombstalker as a Cursed Scroll or StP. Hell, almost anything else. Dark Confidant makes it very tricky to play Tombstalker, especially in a control deck like this one, here you could lose a game you would otherwise have won by flipping Stalker.

Also, a lack of Cursed Scrolls make your threats extremely vulnerable to topdecked removal.

[Hanni]

B/w Deadguy Ale

Lands (22)
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Scrubland
1 Godless Shrine
5 Swamp
4 Wasteland

Creatures (11)
4 Dark Confidant
3 Nantuko Shade
3 Jotun Grunt
1 Tombstalker

Spells (27)
4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Vindicate
3 Damnation

Sideboard (15)
3 Unmask
3 Extirpate
4 Engineered Plague
4 Dystopia
1 Serenity

I like the B/w/g build better, but this seems like a fine alternative. The manabase is much more stable. Damnation deals with creatures better than Deed does, it just doesn't answer artifacts/enchantments. I board a lone Serenity in the board, which gives me 5 sources of artifact/enchantment removal, and it mass sweeps. The rest of the deck is pretty much the same as the B/w/g Deadguy Rock frame. More than 3 Grunt's seems like overkill and a 1-of Tombstalker seems like a really good random win condition.

[thefreakaccident]

B/w Deadguy Ale

Lands (22)
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Scrubland
6 Swamp
4 Wasteland

Creatures (11)
4 Dark Confidant
3 Nantuko Shade
3 Jotun Grunt
1 Tombstalker

Spells (27)
4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Vindicate
3 Damnation

Sideboard (15)
3 Unmask
3 Extirpate
4 Engineered Plague
4 Dystopia
1 Serenity

I like the B/w/g build better, but this seems like a fine alternative. The manabase is much more stable. Damnation deals with creatures better than Deed does, it just doesn't answer artifacts/enchantments. I board a lone Serenity in the board, which gives me 5 sources of artifact/enchantment removal, and it mass sweeps. The rest of the deck is pretty much the same as the B/w/g Deadguy Rock frame. More than 3 Grunt's seems like overkill and a 1-of Tombstalker seems like a really good random win condition.

flipping that random win condition with confidant can be game ending, im at 7; AH CRAP! I just flipped toom stalker!

but on a serious note, grunt and shade would be all the finishing action you would need, plus they only flip for 2 dmg; which is what you really want... grunt is also anti tarmo.card; he is a fatty on turn 2 (which is still amazing), and he takes away from both graveyard (he's better than wretch at least).

[Hanni]

In that list:

-1 Swamp
+1 Godless Shrine

This way, the deck gains protection from Extirpate while also increasing the white source count. This deck should be able to manhandle B/w/g Deadguy Rock because it has a more stable manabase, Damnation > Deed in this matchup, and Grunt > Goyf.

Aside from the "mirror," this deck should also have a better Threshold matchup, other graveyard reliant matchups, and mana denial matchups. I still think B/w/g Deadguy Rock is stronger against the rest of the field, but this is a fine alternative to it that doesn't strain the manabase as bad.

The reasoning for the 1-of Tombstalker... it's a 1-of. You don't want to run 4 Grunt's or 4 Shades because multiples are worthless. Tombstalker is an additional finisher. Getting cards in the grave shouldn't be a problem, even with Grunt's in the deck. This is a resource denial deck. 6BB might hurt Confidant... but you're only running 1. It comes down as a 5/5 flyer... that shit ends games. It's also nice in the fact that it can weaken Goyf a few p/t's on occasion.

Damnation raises the curve a little too but it's such a nice card vs aggro. Dark Ritual means that you can occasionally cast Damnation on turn 2... this is extremely strong vs EtW, Affinity, Goblins, and even Elves. 4cc shouldn't be too hard to ramp up too, BB should be easily obtainable, and it's a black source of removal. 11 threats, with 7 being big finishers, means this deck can sit back and play board control (much like B/w/g Deadguy) and then drop a beater ftw.