[Deck] Quirion Dragonauts Beatdown

[Hanni]

Heh, Matt... it's EXTREMELY funny that you made those changes because so did I...

http://www.starcitygames.com/phpBB2/...c.php?t=300104

I made those changes about a week ago, so it's rather funny that we are both on the same page. The only difference between my tweaks is that I'm still running 2 Island 1 Mountain as opposed to 1/1/1 w/ Forest, but I may make that change after more testing.

Some things though. I find Dragonauts to be the tits vs Goblins. If they don't answer it with Incinerator, they usually lose. Maybe you've had problems with the manabase, thusly making Dragonauts harder to cast. I usually don't have too many issues with my manabase due to the sheer number of cantrips (and fetching basics), but I can see why this might occur from time to time. The main reason why Dragonauts is a monster here is because it has flying and they simply can't chump block it. With the amount of burn the deck packs to remove problem guys like Piledriver, the Dragonauts combo-off on Goblins before they can combo-off on you... the combo phase is 1337.

I also find Lava Darts great against Goblins. It answers a first turn Lackey and sits in your graveyard as additional fodder later on if necessary. I find the curve in this deck to be extremely low, yet I find myself constantly seeing lots of lands. Unless they tag me with multiple Wastelands, sac'ing a land or two to Lava Dart has yet to be an issue. Not only that but the 1/1 Fire//Ice-like damage split is pretty handy vs Goblins.

I only have about 15 games vs Goblins under my belt with the deck though.

I like the maindeck configuration as it stands vs Goblins right now. So far the game 1 matchup has been roughly 60/40 in my favor. Post board, the 3 Pyroclasm (or Rough/Tumble or Rolling Earthquake) and 3 Stifle make the matchup even stronger. The great Goblins matchup is a huge reason why I think this deck is a strong contender in the format.

Isochron Scepter actually sounds like a really strong sideboard option vs Board Control (aside from the nasty Pernicious Deeds, which I'd bring in Needle/Krosan Grip/Stifle/etc for) and B/x Sui variants.

My current maindeck list:

Lands (17)
4 Flooded Strand
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Mountain

Creatures (11)
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Quirion Dryad
3 Wee Dragonauts

Spells (32)
4 Brainstorm
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lava Dart
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
2 Counterspell

My sideboard is just something that's thrown together but I'd like to solidify a strong sideboard. Any help would be appreciated. For reference, this is my current sideboard:

Sideboard (15)
3 Stifle
3 Pyroclasm
1 Shattering Spree
1 Flametongue Kavu
3 Loaming Shaman
2 Krosan Grip
2 Pithing Needle

[MattH]

Ah, the reason the builds look the same is that I used your build from Starcity! But I had forgotten where I got it from (it was just in a text file labeled "TRY THIS.txt" on my desktop). So yeah.

I will try running Dragonauts out there and racing with them. It's a different playstyle - I hadn't tried racing goblins, just playing control with the green men playing Moat first (keeping attackers back), then The Abyss (each killing a blocker per turn).

One thing I like is that with so much burn, trying to effectively gangblock a Dryad is a very dicey proposition, because you could be losing one or two blockers before combat damage, and the Dryad could be growing by a couple toughness too.

[Hanni]

I will try running Dragonauts out there and racing with them. It's a different playstyle - I hadn't tried racing goblins, just playing control with the green men playing Moat first (keeping attackers back), then The Abyss (each killing a blocker per turn).

I enjoy this deck so much because it's a hybrid of aggro/control/combo and it can transform based on the situation. The ability to just simply change playstyles against different decks is so incredibly strong.

I'd like to go into a little more depth about the Goblins matchup specifically. In this matchup, you do not want to be the control. You are the beatdown. This deck is essentially G/R Beats. You drop an early Mongoose or Dryad and burn their blockers and swing through. You keep applying pressure and removing their guys like Warchief and Piledriver. The Dragonauts come down when the ground is stalled when they have too many chump blockers and simply swings through FTW, along with the burn as reach to their dome. If you burn out their Piledrivers, they should not be able to kill you before you kill them.

Against most matchups, this deck should be the beatdown. Just because the deck packs countermagic doesn't mean the deck needs to play defensively. You want to drop green fatties, burn blockers, and push as much damage through as possible. The cantrip is there to keep the deck fueled and consistent (along with pumping the Gro creatures) and the countermagic is there to keep the opponent from resolving any bombs (as well as help the combo matchup). In Goldfish, winning on turn 4 is very possible. The deck obviously doesn't win on turn 4 against any deck attempting to react to it (blockers, removal, etc), but I emphasize that to show that the deck is very aggressive in nature.

On a sidenote, someone piloted this deck to a Top 4 spot at a GPT. That's pretty cool for a brand new idea if you ask me.

[Zach Tartell]

Do you guys ever have problems with not having evasion or trample? Against decks that can post a million blockers (Faerie stompy would probably suck, on account of SOFI and the pro-red fliers)? Maybe keeping the intuition engine and adding a brawn or a wonder? Actually, two. Aydunno, I really like how this deck is looking, but I'm not sure it's any better than just red thresh.

[Hanni]

Do you guys ever have problems with not having evasion or trample?

Umm... Wee Dragonauts does have evasion. I have yet to have problems with a lack of evasion/trample on the Dryads themselves. I have burn to clear away blockers, though this isn't always failsafe, I still put pressure on the opponent with a large Dryad. If the ground gets clogged, I either send burn to the opponent if their life total is low enough or dig for a Dragonauts to swing through overhead (like against Goblins, for example).

Against decks that can post a million blockers (Faerie stompy would probably suck, on account of SOFI and the pro-red fliers)?

I wasn't aware that Faerie Stompy had a million blockers but yes, SoFI on their flyers can be troublesome. I attempt to play the tempo game early with Daze and FoW, or even Bolt on Sea Drake. If I get Dryad down in time and he gets large enough, a pro red flyer won't always save them. I play aggressive green beats and burn and they play Ancient Tomb so that is another consideration to take. I admit that I don't have much playtesting against Faerie Stompy currently but I have tons of experience playing the tempo game against them with UWb Fish so I'm drawing on that experience a little for this answer. Postboard I gain Shattering Spree and Krosan Grip to deal with Chalice and equipment. I don't think the matchup is that bad but I'm going to refrain from estimating any %'s until I actually test the matchup more.

Maybe keeping the intuition engine and adding a brawn or a wonder?

While Intuition is good with Lava Dart, it's going to be completely dead for everything else. I have no discard outlets so adding Wonder or Brawn is going to require me to run 3 in order to get any use out of Intuition. I do not think the deck needs additional evasion nor do I think the deck needs trample bad enough. If I felt I needed any of those things, I'd simply run Berserk, which I've discussed at length over at the SCG forums for why I don't feel it's worthwhile in the deck.

I really like how this deck is looking, but I'm not sure it's any better than just red thresh.

While I have no playtesting experience with or against red Thresh with Counterbalance, I can say that this deck is much better than normal Red Thresh. I've played with red Thresh quite a bit in the past and I think this deck is alot stronger vs white Thresh (Dryad), alot stronger vs Goblins (Dragonauts), and has a much faster goldfish vs combo (Dryad and Dragonauts).

---

After evaluating the deck a little bit, I decided to make a few changes to the sideboard (which is still untuned).

I never brought the Flametongue Kavu in. It was primarily there to deal with Threshold. I never found myself wanting to board anything out for it. Loaming Shaman was without a doubt an MVP in the matchup.

-1 Flametongue Kavu
+1 Loaming Shaman

Pyroclasm is probably much better vs Goblins than Rolling Earthquake but Rolling Earthquake gives me additional reach against board control and the like.

-3 Pyroclasm
+3 Rolling Earthquake

I'm really unsure about the necessity of Pithing Needle. While it is a very versatile card, I'm not quite sure it's needed. Against Goblins, they pack Hooligan. Shattering Spree and Krosan Grip seem to be stronger options since they also have Chalice. Stifle deals with Wasteland. Pithing Needle deals with randomness but Krosan Grip answers most randomness. I may be coming back to Needle. For now, I think I can drop it. In it's place I'd like to add an extra Shattering Spree and an extra Stifle. Shattering Spree is stronger vs Goblins IMO, as well as being great vs everything from Faerie Stompy to Affinity, while Stifle strengthens the Goblins and Combo matchups. Again, I may very well put Pithing Needle back in the board... for now, I'd like to explore other options.

-2 Pithing Needle
+1 Shattering Spree
+1 Stifle

The new sideboard:

Sideboard (15)
4 Stifle
3 Rolling Earthquake
2 Shattering Spree
2 Krosan Grip
4 Loaming Shaman

That answers combo, board control, graveyard strategies, Chalice of the Void, and other relevant randomness. What do you guys think of this sideboard?

Sideboard plan:

vs Goblins
-4 Force of Will
-3 Daze
-2 Counterspell
+4 Stifle
+3 Rolling Earthquake
+2 Shattering Spree

This transforms the deck into a much more aggressive G/R Beats deck. Force/Daze/Counterspell are decent vs Goblins but Stifle/RE are much stronger. Stifle answers everything you'd want to answer with the standard countermagic plus more and the deck packs so much burn that it can simply kill the problematic Goblins outright rather than counter them. Shattering Spree deals with Vial, along with Chalice if they bring it in.

Vs Threshold
-3 Lava Dart
-1 Sleight of Hand
+4 Loaming Shaman

Lava Dart is rather unspectacular in this matchup. The greatest benefit it has is pumping the Dryad large enough to outsize Mongoose/Werebear. Outside of that, it's only useful as removal vs pre-Thresh Werebears and it's very bad reach on its own. I'm not sure if Sleight of Hand is the correct card to cut but I don't really want to touch anything else. Loaming Shaman comes in to increase my threat count and it is extremely strong against them, I cannot emphasize the word extremely enough. He is the MVP in the matchup, hands down. If they board in Counterbalance, it more than likely won't be counterable (3cc).

If Thresh boards in Counterbalance:

-2 Counterspell
+2 Krosan Grip

Vs Combo
-4 Magma Jet
+4 Stifle

Magma Jet is a really good card but a bit too slow vs Combo. Solidarity can Remand it, IGGy/TES can outrace it. 2 damage for 2 mana isn't quickening my clock much, Scry 2 is mostly irrelevant since the matches will never really last that long. It also doesn't actually cantrip so it does nothing to help me disrupt the Combo player. While dropping it does slow my clock down slightly, I think Stifle more than makes up for it.

My other option would be dropping 2 Magma Jet and 2 Counterspell, since Counterspell is essentially slow vs Combo as well. For now, I believe dropping 4 Magma Jet is the correct call.

[MattH]

Couple things: I decided Counterspell was awful against basically everything, so I dropped them for Counterbalance in the main. Which is pretty awesome I gotta say: CB is proactive (helps with Dryad), MUCH stronger against combo (important since this deck lacks thresh's Magi), MUCH stronger against aggro-control, and once played frees up your mana.

I also was never happy with Lava Dart. It's pretty lame against everything except goblins. I believe I have a better replacement: Piracy Charm. That way you can fetch for basic land (island), kill a Lackey, have Daze ready, AND be waste-proof. Fetching basic mountain to Dart the lackey cannot do that. I rarely wanted to flashback Dart anyway unless I was being Wastelanded anyway, or was going for the kill. Charm kills an X/1 just as well, pumps Nauts almost as well (+4/-1), is easier on your basics, is blue for FoW, and happens to rock house against Iggy Pop. Islandwalk also helps break through those fliers someone was complaining about. I think you trade a little bit of power (that I wasn't using anyway) for a LOT of versatility.

[Hanni]

I love the Lava Darts and really enjoy the amount of reach they give the deck. It's a Fire//Ice (the Fire portion) that can split whenever necessary. It pumps Dryads +2/+2 which can help get around damage-based removal or combat situations. The most important aspect, for me, is the fact that it gives the deck the additional reach to win the game. You may have not had good success with it in testing but it's been very solid for me. Piracy Charm is bad. If I wanted a replacement for Lava Dart, I'd probably run Chain Lightning or something similar.

As far as swapping out Counterbalance for Counterspell... this is something I will have to test. It does nothing to help against big spells like Wrath of God but it would definitely improve the Combo and Threshold matchups. However, I will not, under any circumstances, add Top to this deck.

[Maveric78f]

Why not play divert over counterbalance ? If the only purpose is to protect your creatures. Divert is awesome against any permission or disruption (except duress, but it remains even better than disrupt), and it is a new instant card. I have always dreamt of playing disrupt+divert in a deck.

Another thing : have you considered gelectrode ?

[MattH]

Why not play divert over counterbalance ? If the only purpose is to protect your creatures. Divert is awesome against any permission or disruption (except duress, but it remains even better than disrupt), and it is a new instant card. I have always dreamt of playing disrupt+divert in a deck.

Another thing : have you considered gelectrode ?

For starters, because the purpose is NOT only to protect creatures. So, uh, yeah.

I tried a Gelectrode deck ver similar to this once. It was a great deck, except for Gelectrode, which was just too slow and fragile to be of any use.

I love the Lava Darts and really enjoy the amount of reach they give the deck. It's a Fire//Ice (the Fire portion) that can split whenever necessary. It pumps Dryads +2/+2 which can help get around damage-based removal or combat situations. The most important aspect, for me, is the fact that it gives the deck the additional reach to win the game. You may have not had good success with it in testing but it's been very solid for me. Piracy Charm is bad. If I wanted a replacement for Lava Dart, I'd probably run Chain Lightning or something similar.

Piracy Charm is not bad at all. One or two extra points of reach is not a lot to get excited about; Lava Dart is awful unless you're killing X/1s with it.

I never want to flashback Dart because I never want to a) lose my only red source, or b) draw more than one red source. If I have drawn a lot of extra red sources, Dart is okay (still not great), but that's not something I want to do. Dart, to me, reads "Flashback: waste a draw step drawing another damn land". Dart's synergy with the pump guys is cute but it is one of the Dangerous Cool Things.

The chief point for Charm is that it kills a Lackey off of basic Island, which is usually the first basic you want to fetch, given a choice.

Charm is better than Dart for all the reasons that Dart is better than Berserk: it just does more, and more that's relevant. It's at its best when you are "combo-ing" but unspectacular elsewhere.

[Maveric78f]

Here is the version I play now. I like the 1-of counterbalance and scepter. they are just insane if played randomly. Basically, if you play counterbalance in the firsrt game, you can be sure that your opponent will side in his useless anti enchantment/artifact artillery in game 2. I have not intensely tested for the moment. I just played twice against IGGy and WUb fish. And it was just too easy. It obviously needs more testing to tell that the build owns these archetypes. Just telling that it was controled from the beginning to the end with no effort.

// Lands
2 [ON] Wooded Foothills
2 [MM] Island (2)
2 [U] Tropical Island
3 [U] Volcanic Island
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [RAV] Mountain (2)
1 [A] Taiga

// Creatures
4 [PS] Quirion Dryad
3 [GP] Wee Dragonauts

// Spells
4 [5E] Brainstorm
1 [MR] Isochron Scepter
4 [IN] Disrupt
4 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will
2 [OD] Divert
1 [CS] Counterbalance
4 [FD] Serum Visions
4 [AT] Lightning Bolt
4 [JU] Lava Dart
4 [AP] Fire/Ice

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [OV] Pyroclasm
SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 4 [SC] Stifle
SB: 3 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 2 [GP] Shattering Spree

[raharu]

URG with krosan beast, qurion dryads, worldly tutor, and berserk. A cantrip engine, 4 dazes, 4 forces. Maybe mongeese if you like them over the 8/8 squirrel beasts. Or fledgling dragons over the squirrels. You get a turn four combo off and the ability to smash face with 8/8s (or geese, or dragons) and dryads. Yep yep, all around it looks like the way to go. I'll let you guys make the deck list. I don't remember it.