[Deck] Death and Taxes

[laststepdown]

now that hulk flash is gone i assume the metagame will revert back to something like gobos, thresh, and solidarity with people still playing some mono black suicide and fish theyve gotten used to during hulk flash era. would this deck be viable now?

In short, yes. Most players will revert to what they were once comfortable with, or are given a chance to try new things.

In this time I've also picked up all 4 Karakas (finally). We'll see how that turns out. With Mind Over Matter, you may see a rise in Spring Tide.

[ebbitten]

Is mind over matter actually viable in high tide? i mean a 5 mana non instant? can they ever really tap out that late if at all? and this deck has a fair game against solidarity w/ glow rider and ports and such correct?

[Kronicler]

First of all, MoMa costs 6, not 5. Second of all, the "High Tide" you are refering to, aka Solidarity, is different from Spring Tide, its faster but sorcery speed cousin. MoMa definately will not be included in Solidarity because they need all cards, besides lands, to be instants in order to correctly function. Spring Tide, on the other hand, may be able to incorporate MoMa. It probably won't happen, but you must keep in mind that it would be almost impossible for spring tide to lose after MoMa hits play because of their rediculous concentration of excellent sorcery speed draw spells.

Kronicler

[ebbitten]

Back on topic, kind of: now that hulk flash is gone for good what are the reccomended builds for the following metagames:
1. Normal Legacy, no real defined format, just games on MWS
2. Multiplayer usually 3-5 people, no combos anywhere in site, no uber strong control decks mainly just Aggro-Control?
Answers to either or both would be highly appreciated.

[technogeek5000]

Ok this deck is underplayed. This decks only problem is combo which can be dealt with by chalice of the void in the sideboard. It is very strong and ive finally considered it enough to test it out. Does anyone have a optimal list i could work off of?

[chmoddity]

This one is updated.

I have been using a very anti-aggro version that has worked for me. It's pretty strong against Goblins. I have had to add Condemn for all the Tarmogoyfs running around. My version has almost all of the combo defense removed (except the stellar Sphere). This is still my primary deck.

-1cc
3 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial
-2cc
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Jotun Grunt
4 Serra Avenger
4 Silver Knight
-3cc
4 Glowrider
3 Stonecloaker
2 Mangara of Corondor
-4cc
3 Hokori, Dust Drinker
-Land
4 Karakas
4 Rishadan Port
4 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
6 Plains

-sb:
2 Condemn
4 Sphere of Resistance
2 Jotun Grunt
3 Tivadar of Thorn
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Disenchant

[Bane of the Living]

Ok this deck is underplayed. This decks only problem is combo which can be dealt with by chalice of the void in the sideboard. It is very strong and ive finally considered it enough to test it out. Does anyone have a optimal list i could work off of?

Ask Phaerimm he wins 3 events a week with his list.

Western Mass is dominated by Death and Taxes.

[Galroth]

I've heard much of the same. Death and Taxes is a very capable deck.

I PM'ed Phaerimm asking if he would reveal his deck list. He didn't respond; and understandably as we've never met and he has no reason to reveal a list he's been dominating with.

I'm wondering if anybody else knows much about why Death and Taxes is doing so well in particular areas. Is it the meta? Is it play skill and experience with the deck? Is it a new development in the deck? I for one am very interested in this deck as it is so very dynamic in what it can do, and in consequence has been a blast for me to play.

[Bane of the Living]

I've heard much of the same. Death and Taxes is a very capable deck.

I PM'ed Phaerimm asking if he would reveal his deck list. He didn't respond; and understandably as we've never met and he has no reason to reveal a list he's been dominating with.

I'm wondering if anybody else knows much about why Death and Taxes is doing so well in particular areas. Is it the meta? Is it play skill and experience with the deck? Is it a new development in the deck? I for one am very interested in this deck as it is so very dynamic in what it can do, and in consequence has been a blast for me to play.

He's secretive about his list which is probaby key to his success. He changes about 3-4 cards in it on a weekly basis for metagaming and his sb is always different.

His like is at least 10 cards different from the current ones here so he's likely beating combo because of that.

This is a very dynamic deck your right. It has tons of tricks so play skill goes along way.

For a real laugh go look through the top 4's thread and see how many time's you see D&T there. He just won the 4 Volcanic Islands after losing only to me playing Ichorid. Still the deck sits here in the N&D thread.. sigh.

[technogeek5000]

@chmoddity: I run a list very close to that except i run wastelands in place of rishadan port. They have been working well.

@Galroth: D&T places in any area that it is played.

When i first looked at this deck i decided against it because i thought it was to dependant on the managar/karakas synergy, but actually playing the deck i realize that it easily plays out as WW and has lots of combat tricks. Im about 11-2 on MWS right now.

[Galroth]

While I'm still dieing to get a look at Phaerimm's list, I have found 1 development to the deck I've been satisfied with.

The most flexibility in the deck seems to come from the 2-drop creatures. Serra Avenger, I think, is a mainstay. However, I think Silver Knight is not. He's pretty hot against Goblins, and a solid creature all around otherwise, but I've replaced him with Auriok Champion.

Auriok Champion is almost as good in the Goblin match-up, and is imo considerably better in a few other match-ups. Most specifically, she has proved herself quite valuable against Empty the Warrens especially when on the play. The life gain counteracts a large horde with fair ease. Admittedly, my testing is limited. The real drawback is that Auriok Champion does not take the beat down role well, so my deck is forced to play a more control oriented approach. It has improved several combo match-ups and really hasn't decreased my aggro-match ups. Even against Goblins there are only a few times that Silver Knight would have been better.

I'm still curious if anyone has tested Wayfarer more. I've tried out running 2x a few times replacing some of the 2-drops. The deck really wants a Karakas in play. Against Wasteland or other ld Wayfarer is obviously worth the inclusion. I'm tempted to run Maze of Ith and possibly something like Arena/Kjeldoran Outpost/Forbidden Watchtower if I'm going to use Wayfarer to ensure he has some use outside of just fetching Karaks.

[Finn]

I finally got a few Cataclysms and I have to say that so far I really like them. Forgetting the effect of the spell itself, I like the psychological impact. More after some additional tests.

[Galroth]

Oh, and can someone please tell me why all decklists dropped from 3x Mangara to 2x? This kinda just seems nutty to me. Even if you don't have the Mangara softlock, he's still a Vindicate on legs.

[technogeek5000]

Well technically he isnt because if you use his legs, you wont be vindicating anyone and vice versa.

I want to give the list i have been using as of late.

6 plains
8 fetch
4 Wasteland
4 karakas
2 chrome mox

3 mangara of corondor
4 Serra avenger
3 isamaru
3 jotun grunt
3 stonecloaker (god i hate this card, remind me why im running him)
2 Hokori, Dust Drinker
3 silver knight

4 Aether vial
4 Stp
4 Sensei's divining top
3 ummewaza's jitte

Sideboard:
4 chalice of the void
3 orim's chant
8 Blank

I think that 7 slots to combo is realy effective as i have yet to lose to any combo deck i have played (even solidarity). I know i want something for thresh and goblins but im not sure wat... I dont know if I like this deck now that i have had time to truly understand how it is played. It seems way to much like WW and that deck has failed to put up any kind of results at all. The mangara synergy is extremely easy to disrupt and is sometimes ineffective. I know that this deck does put up results, but its only from Phaerimarchlord and the tournaments he wins at have never broke 25 players. The deck plays slow most of the time which is why i run chrome mox.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

3 stonecloaker (god i hate this card, remind me why im running him)

Because it's a 3/2 flyer for three that's a surragate Karakas. It's also graveyard hate.

[technogeek5000]

Because it's a 3/2 flyer for three that's a surragate Karakas. It's also graveyard hate.

Its still subpar. I dont want to play 3 mana to bounce my mangara (I rarely get the chance) because i wont be able to recast it. I run 4 serra avengers for 3 power flying creature plus it is vigilance and 2cc. Also its not very good at hating graveyards because the decks it hates on (thresh, ichorid, some combo) is often inefective because either they shrug it off which they normally will (tarmo loses 1/1 or you hit a dregde card) or they just immediately replenish their graveyard.

Id rather be running some legendary white creature that I can abuse with my karakas or a decent beater like white knight or savannah lions.

[ForceofWill]

I don't usually post in this thread but my only advise is take out horoki I know he was the point of the deck at first but he is slow and useless even with an active karakas. Play 4 silver knight and yes I know it's legendary but play 4 jitte as it's the reason you smash goblins.

[technogeek5000]

stonecloaker is also sick combat tricks.
he does bounce him self.
cataclysm>hokori.........
cataclysm+vile+mangara+karakas=GG
the sad part is it happens.All the time.

The deck has enough combat tricks, i dont think it needs more. Also why would you want to spend 3 mana to play stonecloaker just to have him brought back to your hand.

I am thinking of taking out hokori but i kinda want to replace him with another legendary creature. Im gonna look and see if i can find one thats decent (8.5 tails is the first one that comes to mind). Also im going to test a stonecloakerless list and see how it goes.

Edit: i think i found it. Its essentialy mangara 4-6 though its more limited. Its called Lieutenant kirtar. Its not as effecient as mangara but it can attack and remove a creature. Plus it has flying. What does everyone think.

[Happy Gilmore]

Stonecloaker happens to be really good against Cephalid breakfast, just saying.

[smoky squirrel]

I think Lieutenant Kirtar is too mana intensive. You don't want to keep mana open just to kill one attacking creature. It does not interact with karakas either. I changed hokori with cataclysm and it has served me well. The only thing that troubles me is that it is not as good against Fairy Stompy and ********, they don't suffer that much from it, and if they would suffer, they counter it... Any suggestions from the veterans, and I'm looking at you PhaerimmArchlord... :)