[DTB] Vial Goblins

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Yes you are right but kiki AND commander is not bad!? And for me 4 sgc are to much!

[ClearSkies]

I thought Engineered Explosives is the reason to run two splashes in Goblins?
It stops multiple plagues, go around discard after it hits play, and can be used for other stuff besides plague.

I always run Armageddon in the sideboard too. This card seals game against people who are a little behind. I find it to be really good when combined with ports and wastelands.

[dlevsApiJ]

Thanks for the tips :).

First: i keep playing Kiki, he is better in some situations than SCG, copying Piledriver or Sharpshooter is Very good, and I don't want to play more than 2 SCG's.
Ray of Revelation is very good, better than the Grip, if he is countered, you can play it the second time, whit in total as much mana as a Korsan Grip, Grip is only better against an active Jitte ore something.
Engineered Explosives is also a very good card :). But is it good in this deck? Because you play very cheap creatures? Against what decks it is good? Or what cards?

I think about this SB:
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Pyrokinesis
3 Jotun Grunt
2/3 Korsan Grip
2/3 Ray of Revelation
I dont play the Engineered Explosives, cause i think they arent good in this deck, with al this cheap creatures. And should i play 3 Grips and 2 Ray's ore 2 Grips en 3 Ray's?

O, and my Mainboard, is that looking good? whit al that cards I only play 3 times? I only play 22 land, and i want to play 23, what should i cut?

Mvg

[Eldariel]

Yes you are right but kiki AND commander is not bad!? And for me 4 sgc are to much!

The fact remains that if you want to optimize your chances of winning, Siege-Gang is better. SGC simply does so much nothing else in the deck works for so you need a ready access to it; it also wins stalemates just as well as Kiki while it just happens to trump opposing Kikis (by killing what he's copying in response, then killing the Kiki itself). No, they aren't bad together, but that's what we call 'win more'; a second Siege-Gang should be more than enough to win. If you don't win with 8 Goblins and the ability to shoot them to the face for 2 damage a piece, something is horribly, horribly wrong.

Engineered Explosives are alright for the following reason:
-They kill all Empty the Warrens-tokens for measly 2 mana, a good answer to combo.
-They blow up Engineered Plagues, a slow answer to it, but an answer anyways.
-They blow up 2-drop creatures from aggro/control like Tarmogoyf, Werebear and company. You only play Piledriver and Tin Street at that point and you draw more cards than your opponent and your guys are expendable, so it's no problem if you lose few of your 2-drops to off two big beasts on the opposing side.

[dlevsApiJ]

About the Kiki, that's true, i think 1 Cut the Kiki for my 23th land (the 3th mountain). And the E Explosives, i havent any space for them in the SB, al the other cards are more important...

Mvg

[Eldariel]

People usually play Explosives in the slot where you've got Jotun Grunts in. I think you should go 3 Rays, 2 Grips if you MD 2-3 artifact kill Goblins. If you have only 1, you'll need 3 Grips to deal with problem artifacts.

[dlevsApiJ]

Yes, cause i need 1 Shooter for my meta, i only play 1 anti artifact goblins (I am testing between Hooligan and Tinkerer) and my SB is like 3 Grips and 2 Rays, exactly what you say :).

But i wont cut the Grunt's very many ******** decks, most tournaments 2 in the T8. And also much decks with LftL. I have played 4 Tournaments with the Grunts, and i was only been paired 1 time Against *****, and no time against decks with LftL (even not in the T8's) but that is coincidence. With the Grunts (and against ***** CotV on 1 and 2) i win it "very easy". Against the Loam decks Tormod's Crypt is better, but i see more ***** in my Meta.. Grunt is also a big Creature...
But LftL is played more and more, so sometimes if i see more Loam decks on a tournament, i play the Crypt's instead of the Grunt's.

Mvg

[Onphyre]

Given the recent succes of Thresh at the Legacy Championships is it a good idea to run Tormod's Crypt over say something like Pyrostatic Pillar in the SB? Let me know what you guys think.

[calosso]

Given the recent succes of Thresh at the Legacy Championships is it a good idea to run Tormod's Crypt over say something like Pyrostatic Pillar in the SB? Let me know what you guys think.

No, crypt does nothing vs tarmogoyf. In some cases it makes him even bigger. The only thing crypt does is give nimble mongoose -2/-2.

[zulander]

The best thing to do is play goblins with the green splash, move the tin-streets to the board and insert 4 tarmogoyf. That is all.

[dlevsApiJ]

You have no space for 4 of them, you have to cut cards you need..... Most people play 1-2 Tin-Street/Tinkerer, son you have to cut more cards... And you dont want that. You even want to play Tin-Street/Tinkerer.

Mvg

[zulander]

What's the green splash list again? I don't remember all the cards.

[dlevsApiJ]

There isnt A list, everyone plays with cards that are needed in his/here meta.

[Illissius]

I have no fewer than four builds I'm kicking around right now -- a straight red version with Tombs and Goons, and Jitte and Price in the side; a white splash for Swords, and Shared Triumph, Chant, Armageddon, Disenchant sideboarded; black for Snuff Out, with Duress and Therapy in the board; and a double splash for black and green, with T.S. Hooligan main, and Explosives, Duress, Therapy, and Snuff in the side. I honestly like all of them, so I'm not sure which is best; it probably depends on the metagame.

This must be some kind of stupid rogue psychology thing, because I know I had no interest in the deck back when it was good.

[TheFatalOne]

Here is my current list. It's doing really well lately.

3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
3 Mountain
2 Plateau
1 Sacred Foundry

4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Pilerdriver
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Ringleader
3 Mogg Fanatic
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Kiki-Jiki
1 Goblin Pyromancer
1 Goblin King
1 Goblin Sharpshooter

4 Aether Vial
3 Swords to Plowshare

SB:
3 Disenchant
3 Engineered Explosives
3 Pyrokinesis
3 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Armageddon


Critique away!

[Illissius]

I wouldn't cut a Fanatic, with Cephalid Breakfast and Ichorid running around these days.

[dlevsApiJ]

4 Fanatics is enough i think, i play 3 of them, but there also isnt much room for a 4th.

If i where you, i should cut
1 Kiki-Jiki
1 Goblin Pyromancer
1 Goblin King
for 3 lands, cause you play 4 ports and 4 wasteland, you need more color mana.

Mvg

[Tacosnape]

I think it's inaccurate to say Crypt does -nothing- against Tarmogoyf. It can often end up with a net of -1/-1 or -2/-2 to the Goyf, especially when you consider that a lot of times they're going to Force your Vial so you'll have an artifact in your yard anyway. Not that this is terribly amazing or worth the slot, but just saying. On occasion it'll bring that bad boy within Incinerator range.

Crypt becomes a decent board-in against some versions of Threshold that have a third threat that has Threshold beyond Mongoose or Goyf, be it Werebear or Fledgling Dragon. I certainly don't think it's worth it to run Crypt strictly for Threshold, but if you have them, it may be worth bringing them in. It's worth noting that Crypt is strong against both Cephalid Breakfast and Ichorid, and as such, a few Crypts would have been pretty damn solid against that Gencon T8.

(And don't be a moron and tell me Crypt doesn't hurt Ichorid. It does. It just doesn't singlehandedly shut the deck down. So what if they can restart the engine? You're still going to take 20+ cards out with the Crypt. Combined with the Mogg Fanatic, Ichorid becomes a cakewalk.)

What's the green splash list again? I don't remember all the cards.

The maindeck looks something like this, usually:

23 Land, including 6-8 fetches, 4 Taiga, 3-5 Mountain, 6-8 Port/Wasteland, and sometimes a Volcanic Island or Badlands (But not a Plateau*) for Engineered Explosives.
4 Aether Vial
33 Goblins, including the main 28 (4 Lackey/Fanatic/Piledriver/Warchief/Matron/Ringleader/Incinerator), then 2/3 or 3/2 on Hooligan and Siege-Gang Commander.

The board then usually involves combinations of the following cards:

Pyrokinesis
Chalice of the Void
Pyrostatic Pillar
Engineered Explosives
Krosan Grip
Tranquil Domain
Tormod's Crypt
Pithing Needle
REB/Pyroblast

*(Not a Plateau, because Volcanic Island and Badlands give you the option of impersonating another deck to try and lure a misplay out of your opponent if you lack a 1-drop. Volcanic impersonates UGR Threshold, Badlands impersonates Red Death.)

[Eldariel]

How about Planar Void in the black-splash versions? It'd hit Tarmo hard and also hose all those stupid Ichorids and Ceph Breakfast-builds (while not being THE most effective against Life from the Loam due to 'cycle in response', Life itself is a sorcery and it'll still RFG the lands so the card will soon run out of fuel). It'd also annihilate the Threshold-creatures. That or Jotun Grunt seem like the best alternatives as far as grave hate is concerned.

[Onphyre]

So my SB right now is:

x4 Pyrokinesis
x4 Chalice of the Void
x4 Krosan Grip
x3 ?

Either Pyrostatic Pillar, Tormods Crypt, or REB? What would be best for the general meta game?