I think the Infernal Tutors are out of place; I'd rather run more non-conditional mana in the form of Elvish Spirit Guide.
Why Overmaster? It doesn't do anything for ETW, negates the use of mana sources in the first place, and having multiple wishes for Overmaster and the Doomsday Device you want in the first place seems unlikely.
MfG, auch Fred.
Ever witnessed the insane synergie, that LEDs and Infernals have?Originally Posted by Iranon
Why run more SGs? It just doesn't work together with the EtW-Plan.
No Stormcountincrease is not good.
Overmaster is just for increasing your stormcount + cantrip, and your following EtW can't be countered. It is definitely not the first option i'll go for, when a Wish resolved. And it will prolly leave the SB as soon as you show me a better cc1 cantrip + maybe nice effect.
How does Street Wraith work with your ETW/Storm count plan? Street Wraith is considered typically used to draw for a mana source, so you should cut it for ESG, so you actually have a better chance of drawing a mana source. You may not get any more storm count, but you can use ESG to help with Goblin Charbelcher's activation cost to get around a FOW or other counter and you don't lose 2 life to it. Not playing ESG seems like a terrible move.
-4 SW
+4 ESG
Ever witnessed the insane synergy that Bayous and Belchers have? I like to win if I get to activate Belcher.
22 initial mana sources > 18 initial mana sources. Adds consistency in my opinion.
Huh? You're afraid of getting EtW countered? Explain.
I can't think of any situation when wishing for a 1cc cantrip is the right decision. When you go for EtW and have it in your hand, you go for Goblin War Strike. An additional Shattering Spree seems clearly better in this slot.
Team SPOD[23:08:50] <@Anusien> You want me to actually test?
[23:09:02] <frogboy> I thought you already had
Ever witnessed the insane synergy that sarcastic faces and Forums have?
If your opponents has an IQ at least greater than his age, he will not let the Belcher resolve, will he?
Well Overmaster is the first thing to be kicked out, but you will have to come up with something else than a second Shattering Spree.
I really see your point. I just had that card laying around and like 1 slot left in my wishboard and I didnt really thought clearly about that.
@ xXxBretWeedxXx:
The reason why i prefer the SW is, because it allows me to play with
less cards. It may make the mulligan decisions a little harder, but Belcher just contents: Acceleration and Kill.
And therefore it is easier to find the right cards - You are playing 56 cards.
And i really prefer the EtW Kill because it is way stronger against Controldecks, who just wait on Forcing/Dazing your Belcher.
So play Xantid Swarms side.... That's a really good option against FoW/Daze, they board there creature hate like STP out..
Then you can cut the Black splash, and go more for the Belcher kill, with the Swarms side, they have to let hem resolve...
Also play 4 Pyroblast (not 4 ReB) Main,, thats much better then side..
Mvg
Last edited by dlevsApiJ; 08-29-2007 at 12:57 PM.
*Team Haste!*
Yeah great idea man. One Swarm side. Congratz!
And to avoid your next post: No i don't have enough space for 4 of them!
Sometimes Pyroblasts might be better in main than in side. But in my meta there is more (nonblue ofc) aggro than Control.
So exspect at least some Goldfishs. And the only thing i don't want to draw in those games is something for a Deck i don't play against.
Therefore it is not so smart to play Blasts main.
And whazzup about your Pyro/Red Elemental Blast thing? There the same beside the artwork. -.-
REB - Rules Text (Oracle): Choose one - Counter target blue spell; or destroy target blue permanent.
Pyroblast - Rules Text (Oracle): Choose one - Counter target spell if it's blue; or destroy target permanent if it's blue.
See the difference? Pyroblast can target any spell or permanent; REB needs to target a blue spell/permanent. Therefore, if you have a Pyroblast in hand and have an extra mana, you can use it on one of your own spells, even though it will have no effect, simply to increase storm count, which you cannot do with REB.
No, Pyroblast can target anything thus giving +1 storm while REB requires a blue permanent / blue spell on the stack to be cast.
Another question: How often do you wish for Duress? I ran it in the past but never found it useful.
Team SPOD[23:08:50] <@Anusien> You want me to actually test?
[23:09:02] <frogboy> I thought you already had
Seems like you've never played against a deck running blue... The Duress is the card, the Wishboard relies on - apart from the EtW plan.
@ KillemallCFH:
Yeah, you are right. I'll better change that one in my list.
That's what i said in my first post to you -.- ... And you know that i mean 4 Swarms...
And if you have testes it, you see you dont have problems with 4 Pyroblast main, 50% of the decks play FoW, and something against that is really good. Eventually, you can imprint him on a Chrome, and if you have 1 mana to much, you can make your storm 1 higher.. Please test is before you say things.. Than you can play 4 Xantid Swarms in the slots...
Mvg
*Team Haste!*
Matter of fact, my meta doesn't contain 50% Decks with FoW in it.
I mentioned that earlier, if u would have read, what i said.
And yes i know you mean 4 Swarms. But:
1. Write, what you mean.
2. Swarms can be countered/dazed as well. It makes no difference.
The important third one:
I will not play the Xantid Swarm in MD. And i don't have 4 SB slots for it either. And i really prefer drawing a LED, Belcher, Wish or anything else than just a bad Pyroblast having a Goldfish.
I just don't exspect much hate in shape of Countermagic coming at me [b ] .[/ b]
|
While I agree that black isn't good enough, I would like to suggest two Taigas. It has been discussed before, and I still stand behind the idea. Ever since I have switched from one to two Taigas, I have loved it. The slight increase in Belcher fizzling is well worth the reward of the second land. It is SOOOO helpful when you need to rebuild your mana and recover from a failed combo attempt. As the game drags on, the second Taiga really shines.
EDIT: It also makes dubs Land Grant not suck.
Team Unicorn- "I'm Horny."
"The Wandering One" of Legacy.
"Glimmervoid, Go."
Assuming you're on the play vs Threshold. You play a Land and 2 ritual effects (or Petals) to go Wish -> Duress and grab one counter. Second turn you have 4 cards in your hand and 1 mana source available (if you cast Chrome Mox first turn you would have 3 cards and 2 mana sources available, I don't think that would change the situation).
If you go for EtW now you will not create more than 10 tokens. If they play a single creature, you will not win before turn 5. Let's check: Engineered Explosives and Pyroclasm are killing you. Playing two creatures and blocking also is enough. Why didn't you just go for EtW for 12 tokens on turn one?
If you go for Belcher now you can't activate it unless you have LED. If you have just drawn LED, Wish->Duress was a clear misplay on turn 1 because you wasted two Rits + Wish without having a 2nd turn kill / huge Goblin Army for sure.
So the only situation I can imagine is: Land, Belcher, Burning Wish, Ritual, Ritual, LED, 1 other card in your starting hand. If the other card produces mana, you could have gone for the turn 1 kill (and maybe losing to Force) instead of opening yourself to Needle, Daze and $Cantrip -> FoW/Daze (the odds are a bit higher, I think). If the other card doesn't produce mana, you would have certainly not wasted your only 2 Ritual effects on something like Duress.
Conclusion: No, I don't see, why the wishboard totally _relies_ on Duress. Explain. If I play a blue deck I either try to go off turn 1 and pray or I rely on Xantid Swarm and Pyroblast.
Team SPOD[23:08:50] <@Anusien> You want me to actually test?
[23:09:02] <frogboy> I thought you already had
Against a deck like thresh, why would you want to try and go off fast and walk into a force. Just build up your hand with the spells needed to win and protection. Wishing for Duress is great in all combo decks, allowing to see their hand. Against control decks and thresh I will usually play it slow and wish for duress.
What's the difference between countered and dazed? daze also counters... (of i may not make a mistake you also may not..)
But most of the time they dont have 2 counters... and when they have,, they have 1 less :).
Mvg
*Team Haste!*
Belcher goes off fast, very fast, very often turn 1. That's why everybody fears it: its speed. With this deck you do not benefit from slowrolling - your opponent is drawing answers, you are drawing nothing. Thresh can build up their hand quite impressively, give them 2 or 3 turns, then stare at the Needle on Belcher while Duress reveals Daze, FoW and Explosives. Even if you are playing a protection-heavy build (4 Pyroblast, 4 Xantid Swarms), you should realize your 11 winning conditions (4 Belcher, 3 EtW, 4 Wish) become 4. You can't win with a turn 4 Empty the Warrens so you have to go for Belcher, need 7 Mana and get owned by Force of Will, Daze, Counterspell and Stifle -- need quite a lot of Pyroblast for that, so more than 7 Mana are necessary. Could you explain your strategy here, are you playing 4 Xantid Swarms and relying on them?
Also, you are claiming, "wishing for Duress is great in all combo decks". In my last post I explained why I can't see the greatness of casting Duress at the cost of two cards. Could you give an example situation, when you would wish for Duress?
Team SPOD[23:08:50] <@Anusien> You want me to actually test?
[23:09:02] <frogboy> I thought you already had
1st turn: ETW for a bunch.
2nd turn: Wish for Duress and cast it (you will need some lands / accel for this), take that clasm/explosives out of their hand.
3rd turn: Win a game you would have otherwise lost.
I do have to say though that B-Wish for Duress seems better in TES than it does here because we will most likely drop lands on both turn 1 and 2, meaning we only need 1 mana from accel to cast both wish and duress. That might be a bit harder here.
Kronicler
Team Info-Ninjas: Catchphrases so secret, I don't even know what they are!
Goblin War Strike does the same thing, only better because it doesn't let them topdeck another EE/Clasm or Brainstorm it back to the top of their library.
YOU'RE GIVING ME A TIME MACHINE IN ORDER TO TREAT MY SLEEP DISORDER.
Honestly... why just randomly stall out the game a turn when you can just end it???
Team Unicorn- "I'm Horny."
"The Wandering One" of Legacy.
"Glimmervoid, Go."
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